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Who is the "house of Israel" regarding the NT of Jer 31:3-34

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by 2ndpillar, Mar 26, 2020.

  1. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    It seems that the "Gentiles"/nations, seem to think they are now "Israel", for that is what their false prophets of Matthew 7:15 tells them. What does Jeremiah 31 say about it? Jeremiah addresses both the "house of Judah" and the "house of Israel", and says that he gave his "covenant" to the "house of Israel", which was of course through Moses, prior to the "house of Israel" being separated from the "house of Judah", ultimately due to the sin of king David. That "house of Israel" was eventually "scattered among the nations" (Ezekiel 36:17-24), do to their "ways and deeds", and eventually "I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands, and bring you into your own land..... I will give you a new heart....and you will be careful to observe My ordinances".

    In what way does that indicate nations/Gentiles, would be Israel, who according to Jeremiah 30:11, "I will destroy completely al the nations where I have scattered you." ? The "you" being "Jacob"/"Israel".
     
  2. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    What is "the NT of Jer 31:3-34"?
     
  3. Etritonakin

    Etritonakin Well-Known Member

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    Dan officially lost their place among the tribes -which is why the tribes listed are different in places.

    However, the tribe of Dan was "as a serpent's trail" -and had a custom of naming pretty much everything after that name -including "Denmark" or "Danmark"
    This gives some indication of general direction of movement.

    Though the following applies to the "lost ten tribes", as they are often called ..... “For surely I will command, And will sift the house of Israel among all nations, As grain is sifted in a sieve; Yet not the smallest grain shall fall to the ground."...
    they lost their self-identity and language. (For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people... The ox knows its owner And the donkey its master's crib; But Israel does not know, My people do not consider.)

    Though sifted among nations, they also eventually came to the places and situations promised by birthright and in prophecy. They became nations, but still not usually recognized as being Israelite.
    (“Not so, my father!” Joseph said. “This one is the firstborn; put your right hand on his head.” 19But his father refused. “I know, my son, I know!” he said. “He too shall become a people, and he too shall be great; nevertheless, his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his offspring shall become a multitude of nations.”")
    (17I will surely bless you, and I will multiply your descendants like the stars in the sky and the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will possess the gates of their enemies. 18And through your offspring all nations of the earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.”)

    Another clue is the continuous throne of David (17For this is what the LORD says: David will never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel,) (though it necessarily transferred through female of the line ). It is said that the prophet Jeremiah traveled with Jacob's pillar stone and a female of David's line to Ireland (26Thus saith the Lord GOD; Remove the diadem, and take off the crown: this shall not be the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high. 27I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him.)

    Stone of Jacob - Wikipedia

    They eventually return to the area around Jerusalem as the house of Judah has -and will again be united.

    (‘In those days and in that time,’ says the LORD, ‘the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah together; with continual weeping they shall come, and seek the LORD their God. They shall ask the way to Zion, with their faces toward it, saying, “Come and let us join ourselves to the LORD in a perpetual covenant that will not be forgotten”’” (Jeremiah 50:4-5).

    “‘As for you, son of man, take a stick for yourself and write on it: “For Judah and for the children of Israel, his companions.” Then take another stick and write on it, “For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel, his companions.” Then join them one to another for yourself into one stick, and they will become one in your hand.

    “‘And when the children of your people speak to you, saying, “Will you not show us what you mean by these?”—say to them, “Thus says the Lord GOD: ‘Surely I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions; and I will join them with it, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand.’” … Then say to them, “Thus says the Lord GOD: ‘Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again’”’” (Ezekiel 37:16-19, 21-22).
     
  4. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    ISRAEL is only a name given by God for all those who believe and follow Gods' Word. Gentiles are now grafted in with believing Jews according to the scrioptures through nourishment to the root (Christ) *ROMANS 11:13-27; EPHESIANS 2:12-13

    A more detailed scripture response here if your interested...

    1. What is the origin of the name of Israel and what does it mean?
    2. Who are those identified as God's Israel in the new covenant?
    3. Are gentiles grafted in to God's Israel?
    4. What about the nation of Israel?
    5. What about the Sabbath and Israel?

    Hope this helps.
     
  5. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    The House of Israel is simply the tribes of Hebrews that make up Judaism.
     
  6. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t see why should other nations be called Israel. There is only one nation Israel. And these leads to question, who are really Jews, part of the nation Israel? Is it those who keep God’s law, or someone else?

    NT tells that Jews are those who keep the law, have “circumcision of heart” (as it is told in Deuteronomy 30:6-9 and Jeremiah 31:31-34).

    but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not from men, but from God.
    Romans 2:29
     
  7. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    My reading indicates to me that whatever people successfully establish an unending covenant of peace (have become very awesome distinguishing themselves from the nations and) deserve to be called Israel if they want the title.

    I don't think such people will care so much about titles though they are described by the prophets as 'The Prince'. They are called The Prince, and there are various other honorifics such as 'Prince of Peace'. Peace is the overwhelmingly plain trait of Israel. It is the standard and lasting peace is the distinguishing characteristic. Its a heavy burden to become truly 'Israel'. The prophets are envisioning Israel and trying to create them, but actually becoming Israel is difficult to nearly impossible. You can't do things the way that other people do them and get better results.
     
  8. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

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    From the passages in Jeremiah 31, it is clear that Israel referred to there are the descendants of those God led out of Egypt. They are NOT Christians.


    31“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke​
     
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  9. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Actually, Israel is the name given to Jacob, and Ephraim of the 10 northern tribes inherited that title, and the nation of Israel/Jacob, originally consisted of 12 tribes. At the time of David and Solomon, those 12 tribes were split into the 10 northern tribes, the house of Israel, and Judah, Benjamin, and Levi, which were called the house of Judah, such as the Jews. At this time, they are still separate into 2 nations (Ezekiel 37:22), and they are not both under the kingship of "My servant David", nor do they both live on the "land that I gave to Jacob" (Ez 37:24-25), nor do they both "observe" "My statutes". The lost 10 tribe, who are "scattered among the nations", do not even know that they are of Israel. They are not Jews, or of Judah, and their chastening is forthcoming (Jeremiah 30:11)
     
  10. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Jesus is the real eternal Israel. No one else.

    Isaiah 40:6
    A voice is saying, `Call,' And he said, `What do I call?' All flesh [is] grass, and all its goodliness [is] As a flower of the field:
     
  11. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Actually Jeremiah 31:31 refers to the "house of Israel" and the "house of Judah", which would be the "whole house of Israel" (Ez 37:11). At this time, the "house of Israel" now remains "scattered among the nations" (Ez 36:23-27). At this time only the house of Judah (Jews) have been resettled on the land "I gave to Jacob My servant" (Ez 37:25) and they have yet to be reunited with the "house of Israel", and have one king over them (Ez 37:21-24)
     
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