Who is the God of Abraham to you?

[Nakosis]

That is true, but closing one's eyes is different than simply not having enough light to see. A person who has no light because it hasn't been provided to him is different then one who closes their eyes when light is provided.

There is forgiveness for some people because they don't know better, but the haters of the light won't be forgiven.

I'd suppose then hate is the enemy.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Hmm. Interesting.

Thanks ... (I think)

 

[Wildswanderer]

Who is the God of Abraham to you? I've seen a couple of featured threads about the God of Abraham today but first we could ask who is He and can we define Him? So often when we discuss the God of Abraham we have vastly different concepts.

Is He a he, her or transcendent about human conception of gender. Is He knowable, unknowable and how can we know. Did He send Prophets, Messengers, Avatars or Manifestations? Do scriptures inform us of who He is? Which scriptures enlighten us and which lead us to confusion? Does He exist or not exist? What else should we know? Who is the God of Abraham to you?

Yawhah is creator, sustainer, lover, warrior, Savior and king

And:

• El Shaddai el shad-di' Lord God Almighty.
• El Elyon el el-yone' The Most High God.
• Adonai ad-o-noy' Lord, Master.
• Yahweh yah-weh Lord, Jehovah.
• Jehovah Nissi yeh-ho-vaw' nis-see' The Lord My Banner.

He transcends gender...he is spirit, so although male and female are derived from his essence, he is neither.
Yes he sent Prophets and judges and then his Son, who is also part of him.

 

[firedragon]

Why should we love someone who would eternally damn someone over a short life of mistakes?

Who told you this?

 

[firedragon]

Thanks ... (I think)

No no. You said it absolutely right. I mean, maybe even more than just right. Sorry, I am unable to type much sometimes.

 

[Link]

I'd suppose then hate is the enemy.

In fact, when Mohammad (s) showed miracles, the disbelievers accused him of being a sorcerer as opposed to getting his power from God, but Quran didn't say they have to believe to be forgiven, it says all they have to do is stop their opposition (hate fighting believers and just live side by side in peace).

If people don't seek to put out God's light nor hate it, they aren't counted as "kaffers".

The people of hell all will say "what is a matter with us that we don't see men who we use to count as the worse?" and the followers of Ahlulbayt (a), if they are not hated, and then all those people who didn't hate them and didn't count them as the worse, won't be people of hell.

2 highest gates of heaven are meant for followers of Ahlulbayt (a) of their time, and rest of humanity who didn't hate the light or it's followers, will enter through 5 other gates. The people of hell, all they had to do was side with the oppressed, hate oppressors, and care for the poor, and they would be counted among right hand people, but they side with oppressors or were apathetic, and hate the truth of it's followers because of the duty they called to and abandoning of the love of the transient world and restricting sexual low desires.

They want to make you hate the followers of Ahlulbayt (a), and they are doing good job politically of branding the vanguards of the earth and soldiers of God's anointed King, as terrorists. Whoever hates any of Ahlulbayt (A) followers won't be forgiven.

 

[Jainarayan]

As a Hindu, irrelevent. I don't believe in him, or I see him as an Asura (jealous anti-gods).

I believe he exists, but he could be an asura or rakshasa, or maybe even a deva (big stretch though) but definitely not as the supreme God. He has benevolent attributes, as rakshasas often do (Trijata,Vibhishana, Prahlada, for example). He’s relevant to me as a gay man only because of what his followers do and have done thinking it’s in his name, e.g. persecuting Pagans and LGBT+ persons.

 

[Irate State]

That is true, but closing one's eyes is different than simply not having enough light to see. A person who has no light because it hasn't been provided to him is different then one who closes their eyes when light is provided.

There is forgiveness for some people because they don't know better, but the haters of the light won't be forgiven.

What if there's no hate involved? Just a lack of interest in a insecure entity that needs love 24/7.

 

[Link]

What if there's no hate involved? Just a lack of interest in a insecure entity that needs love 24/7.

Apathy although a bad trait, will be forgiven as far as finding truth goes if the person is without hatred to the tree of life/light. If the apathy is because of hate towards people of truth it won't be forgiven. Those who didn't strive to find it hard enough will be forgiven as long as they didn't have hatred towards the followers of the truth.

But if you strive (to find the truth), it will better for you. The two highest gates of heaven are meant for followers of the truth, the believers. And it's a huge loss to miss out on taking side of the truthful and opposing oppressors.

There are 5 gates for rest of humanity, and so even if you don't care for truth, at least be with the oppressed and oppose oppressors so you can get highest of those 5 gates.

 

[Link]

Most people are apathetic because the truth is oppressed and it's not clear to them. This is the definition of not having means to faith or disbelief.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Who told you this?

It's a central part of the NT, with Jesus referencing eternal darkness, eternal ovens and fires, and everlasting damnation.
In the Quran, it goes a step further and says the wicked are stuck there until Allah wills it. No definite end date, just a hypothetical whim.

 

[Link]

It's a central part of the NT, with Jesus referencing eternal darkness, eternal ovens and fires, and everlasting damnation.
In the Quran, it goes a step further and says the wicked are stuck there until Allah wills it. No definite end date, just a hypothetical whim.

I think most people oppose hell from non-Muslims because they think all non-Muslims go there. This is not true. Of course wanting other then submission to God won't be forgiven, but most humans who are termed non-muslims want to submit to God and have that as their religion but the truth is oppressed so they don't realize the true instance of it which today is hidden in hiddenness in hiddenness.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Because he knows the nature of evil best to the extent no one hates it more then him, and knows the nature of good best, to the extent no one appreciates it more then him.

How can he hate evil when he himself has conducted acts that did inflict great evils and woes upon humanity? Genocide, permitting slavery, death over a great many "mind your business" things that aren't even crimes, and it's pretty easy to justify war in the Quran. Such as how groups like the Taliban are able to point to this and that as legit grievances to justify going to war against an oppressor (but they target specifically and strictly agents of the state).

 

[Link]

Also hell is forever. That translation of that one verse making last a time, is wrong.

 

[Link]

How can he hate evil when he himself has conducted acts that did inflict great evils and woes upon humanity? Genocide, permitting slavery, death over a great many "mind your business" things that aren't even crimes, and it's pretty easy to justify war in the Quran. Such as how groups like the Taliban are able to point to this and that as legit grievances to justify going to war against an oppressor (but they target specifically and strictly agents of the state).

Don't mix everyone up. As for slavery it was never allowed by God let alone the other things you mentioned.

 

[Link]

The best translation of kaffer should be one who seeks to cover the truth and this is not just by heart, but by actions (war, seeking to attribute falsehood to Islam, etc).

 

[firedragon]

It's a central part of the NT, with Jesus referencing eternal darkness, eternal ovens and fires, and everlasting damnation.
In the Quran, it goes a step further and says the wicked are stuck there until Allah wills it. No definite end date, just a hypothetical whim.

So you have a perception based on only these two? Why do you need any of it anyway?

 

[Irate State]

Apathy although a bad trait, will be forgiven as far as finding truth goes if the person is without hatred to the tree of life/light. If the apathy is because of hate towards people of truth it won't be forgiven. Those who didn't strive to find it hard enough will be forgiven as long as they didn't have hatred towards the followers of the truth.

But if you strive (to find the truth), it will better for you. The two highest gates of heaven are meant for followers of the truth, the believers. And it's a huge loss to miss out on taking side of the truthful and opposing oppressors.

There are 5 gates for rest of humanity, and so even if you don't care for truth, at least be with the oppressed and oppose oppressors so you can get highest of those 5 gates.

I live in a corrupt third world country, believe me I do oppose oppressors. Just that the gates of heaven aren't included in the math.

 

[Link]

I live in corrupt third world country, believe me I do oppose oppressors. Just that the gates of heaven aren't included in the math.

If you oppose oppressors and are with oppressed, you will be in paradise. Love the poor and you will be in paradise.

Inshallah a high place awaits all those who oppose oppressors no matter what their religious background is.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So you have a perception based on only these two? Why do you need any of it anyway?

"Only these two"? That doesn't make much since because those "only these two" are "the books/official scripture" of Christianity and Islam.

Why do you need any of it anyway?

If we are to learn about Christianity one must read the NT, just as if one is to learn about Islam then the Quran must be read.