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Who is the Baha’i Jesus and how does He differ from the Christian Jesus?

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Most of my threads are about religions other than my own. Recently a thread about the Muslim Jesus and another touching on the historical Jesus led to some thought provoking discussions. So with this thread I’d like to explore and compare the Christian Jesus and the Baha’i Jesus. Of course there is only one Jesus the Christ recorded in the NT. However there are different perspectives. For example there is the historical Jesus based on what we can reasonably establish to be true based on established methodology with analysis of historic documents and archaeology. Most scholars of antiquity would agree Jesus was an itinerant Jewish Preacher who was baptised by John the Baptist and crucified at the behest of Pontius Pilate.

The Christian Jesus is predominately understood through the four Gospels but also through the Apostolic letters. So beyond what we know of the historical Jesus, Jesus becomes so much more through the New Testament. Christ is understood to be God incarnate, the Son of God born to the Virgin Mary, one of the three aspects of the Trinity, and a fulfilment of Prophecies in Hebrew Scriptures. Jesus rose from the dead three days after being Crucified and then Ascended to be with His Father in Heaven during Pentecost after appearances to His Disciples. He inaugurated a New Covenant. Of course Christianity is a diverse religion and so there is a range of views but these are some of the key theological concepts in regards the Biblical Jesus.

Nearly six hundred years later, we have the emergence of Islam as the Quran is Revealed through Muhammad. Muhammad was the bearer of a Divine Message equivalent to the Torah through Moses and the Gospel through Christ brings a new vision. According mainstream Islam, Jesus was born to the Virgin Mary but is not the son of god. He is a Prophet who brought the Gospel which was subsequently lost or corrupted. He was not part of a triune god for God is strictly One. He is not God incarnate for God can have no partners. He was not crucified for God would not allow crucifixion of one so exalted as Jesus. So the Muslim Jesus is very different from the Christian Jesus. The two versions are not reconciled. Mainstream Islam discounts the testimony of the Gospels as being superseded by the Quran which is considered by Muslims as the Word of God.

1260 Islamic years from the beginning of the Islamic calendar, in the year 1844, a Persian Merchant from Shiraz claims to be the Promised Qa’im and the bearer of a New Revelation. As the movement spreads through Persia opposition from clergy and the government seeks to eradicate this new found movement. The Bab (meaning the Gate) is executed and later thousands of His followers put to death.

The purpose of the Bab’s mission was to prepare for Him Whom God shall make manifest. Bahá’u’lláh has a vision while in prison in Tehran during 1852 and was later recognised by most Babis to be the Promised One. Bahá’u’lláh according to Baha’is also brought a Divine Revelation. Over 40 years through tablets and letters He provided extensive commentary on many themes touching on Christian topics as early as the 1860s through the Kitab-i-Iqan.

After 1892 when Bahá’u’lláh passed away, His eldest so ‘Abdu’l-Baha was appointed successor, leader, and authorised interpreter. ‘Abdu’l-Baha came into close contact with Westerners who were interested in this new Faith. Eventually He traveled to Europe and North America including the USA during 1912. Through out His Ministry He spoke at length about many Christian topics. One of the most important works is a book titled Some Answered Questions.

So if you’ve made it this far, this is my limited understanding of aspects of biblical scholarship, Christianity, Islam and the Baha’i Faith. I’ve avoided providing my view on what the Baha’i Faith says about Jesus. I might write about it later. I’m interested to hear who on this forum can explain the Baha’i Jesus. Who is He? What does He have in common with the Christian Jesus and how does He differ? If I’ve misrepresented the position of mainstream Christianity, Islam or the Baha’i Faith please feel free to correct me. Thanks.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I see Jesus is Christ, who was born of Mary, of the Holy Spirit and who did die for our sins.

I see there is no true life without the acceptance of Jesus the Christ, in the station of the Son of God.

Regards Tony
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
I see Jesus is Christ, who was born of Mary, of the Holy Spirit and who did die for our sins.

I see there is no true life without the acceptance of Jesus the Christ, in the station of the Son of God.

Regards Tony
So that’s the Christian version....hey aren’t you a Baha’i!:D
 

VoidoftheSun

Necessary Heretical, Fundamentally Orthodox
So that’s the Christian version....hey aren’t you a Baha’i!:D

Actually though the "died for your sins" part doesn't sound very Baha'i. But it would be interesting to hear how Baha'i's interpret such passages used to justify atonement doctrines.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So that’s the Christian version....hey aren’t you a Baha’i!:D

I see as a Baha'i I do not lose that version, I just see it differently as I offer it.

I see it in a spiritual way. Thus when I say Jesus was born of Mary, I also see that he is born of the Holy Spirit which is not of man. I see that the life of Jesus was a sacrafice so that we could find our spiritual selves, to be born again and that was shown in His sacrafice.

Big topic you have raise though. ;)

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Actually though the "died for your sins" part doesn't sound very Baha'i

That is a useful observation. I take my thoughts from what Baha'u'llah offered, which offers much the same;

"... The Ancient Beauty hath consented to be bound with chains that mankind may be released from its bondage, and hath accepted to be made a prisoner within this most mighty Stronghold that the whole world may attain unto true liberty. He hath drained to its dregs the cup of sorrow, that all the peoples of the earth may attain unto abiding joy, and be filled with gladness. This is of the mercy of your Lord, the Compassionate, the Most Merciful. We have accepted to be abased, O believers in the Unity of God, that ye may be exalted, and have suffered manifold afflictions, that ye might prosper and flourish... "

I see that above passage as inclusive of the sacrafice of Jesus, as I see that Baha'u'llah uses 'We' in that quote for all the Messengers.

Regards Tony
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
I see as a Baha'i I do not lose that version, I just see it differently as I offer it.

I see it in a spiritual way. Thus when I say Jesus was born of Mary, I also see that he is born of the Holy Spirit which is not of man. I see that the life of Jesus was a sacrafice so that we could find our spiritual selves, to be born again and that was shown in His sacrafice.

Big topic you have raise though. ;)

Regards Tony

Its not just huge, its encyclopaedic! I’m relying on the exceedingly short attention span of the average RF participant;)
 

VoidoftheSun

Necessary Heretical, Fundamentally Orthodox
That is a useful observation. I take my thoughts from what Baha'u'llah offered, which offers much the same;

"... The Ancient Beauty hath consented to be bound with chains that mankind may be released from its bondage, and hath accepted to be made a prisoner within this most mighty Stronghold that the whole world may attain unto true liberty. He hath drained to its dregs the cup of sorrow, that all the peoples of the earth may attain unto abiding joy, and be filled with gladness. This is of the mercy of your Lord, the Compassionate, the Most Merciful. We have accepted to be abased, O believers in the Unity of God, that ye may be exalted, and have suffered manifold afflictions, that ye might prosper and flourish... "

I see that above passage as inclusive of the sacrafice of Jesus, as I see that Baha'u'llah uses 'We' in that quote for all the Messengers.

Regards Tony

Hmmm, very fascinating. Btw, I love the Gleanings.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Actually though the "died for your sins" part doesn't sound very Baha'i. But it would be interesting to hear how Baha'i's interpret such passages used to justify atonement doctrines.

Its a great question. Baha’is would consider Paul an Apostle of Christ and his letters such as those to Romans and Corinthians as authentic and authoritative. However interpretation requires careful analysis based on historical and textural context. So the doctrine of atonement builds on a theological narrative based on Hebrew Scriptures (eg For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. Corinthians 15:22).

‘Abdu’l-Baha speaks of the meaning of sacrifice during one of His talks in America.

He realized that His blood would be shed and His body rent by violence. Notwithstanding His knowledge of what would befall Him, He arose to proclaim His message, suffered all tribulation and hardships from the people and finally offered His life as a sacrifice in order to illumine humanity—gave His blood in order to guide the world of mankind. He accepted every calamity and suffering in order to guide men to the truth. – Abdu’l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 450.

As Tony has mentioned all the Manifestations of God have sacrificed themselves. We should follow their example.

It is appropriate and befitting that in this illumined age—the age of the progress of the world of humanity—we should be self-sacrificing and should serve the human race. – Abdu’l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu’l-Baha, p. 68.

Obviously there is much more to this topic but the universality of suffering experienced by all the Founders of the world religions and the necessity for each of us to follow their example is an important starting point.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Most of my threads are about religions other than my own. Recently a thread about the Muslim Jesus and another touching on the historical Jesus led to some thought provoking discussions. So with this thread I’d like to explore and compare the Christian Jesus and the Baha’i Jesus. Of course there is only one Jesus the Christ recorded in the NT. However there are different perspectives. For example there is the historical Jesus based on what we can reasonably establish to be true based on established methodology with analysis of historic documents and archaeology. Most scholars of antiquity would agree Jesus was an itinerant Jewish Preacher who was baptised by John the Baptist and crucified at the behest of Pontius Pilate.

The Christian Jesus is predominately understood through the four Gospels but also through the Apostolic letters. So beyond what we know of the historical Jesus, Jesus becomes so much more through the New Testament. Christ is understood to be God incarnate, the Son of God born to the Virgin Mary, one of the three aspects of the Trinity, and a fulfilment of Prophecies in Hebrew Scriptures. Jesus rose from the dead three days after being Crucified and then Ascended to be with His Father in Heaven during Pentecost after appearances to His Disciples. He inaugurated a New Covenant. Of course Christianity is a diverse religion and so there is a range of views but these are some of the key theological concepts in regards the Biblical Jesus.

Nearly six hundred years we have the emergence of Islam as the Quran is Revealed through Muhammad. Muhammad as the bearer of a Divine Message equivalent to the Torah through Moses and the Gospel through Christ brings a new vision. According mainstream Islam Jesus was born to the Virgin Mary but is not the son of god. He is a Prophet who brought the Gospel which was subsequently lost or corrupted. He was not part of a triune god for God is strictly One. He is not God incarnate for God can have no partners. He was not crucified for God would not allow crucifixion of one so exalted as Jesus. So the Muslim Jesus is very different from the Christian Jesus. The two versions are not reconciled. Mainstream Islam discounts the testimony of the Gospels as being superseded by the Quran which is considered by Muslims as the Word of God.

1260 Islamic years from the beginning of the Islamic calendar, in the year 1844, a Persian Merchant from Shiraz claims to be the Promised Qa’im and the bearer of a New Revelation. As the movement spreads through Persia opposition from clergy and the government seeks to eradicate this new found movement. The Bab (meaning the Gate) is executed and later thousands of His followers put to death.

The purpose of the Bab’s mission was to prepare for Him Whom God shall make manifest. Bahá’u’lláh has a vision while in prison in Tehran during 1852 and was later recognised by most Babis to be the Promised One. Bahá’u’lláh according to Baha’is also brought a Divine Revelation. Over 40 years through tablets and letters He provided extensive commentary on many themes touching on Christian topics as early as the 1860s through the Kitab-i-Iqan.

After 1892 when Bahá’u’lláh passed away, His eldest so ‘Abdu’l-Baha was appointed successor, leader, and authorised interpreter. ‘Abdu’l-Baha came into close contact with Westerners who were interested in this new Faith. Eventually He traveled to Europe and North America including the USA during 1912. Through out His Ministry He spoke at length about many Christian topics. One of the most important works is a book titled Some Answered Questions.

So if you’ve made it this far, this is my limited understanding of aspects of biblical scholarship, Christianity, Islam and the Baha’i Faith. I’ve avoided providing my view on what the Baha’i Faith says about Jesus. I might write about it later. I’m interested to hear who on this forum can explain the Baha’i Jesus. Who is He? What does He have in common with the Christian Jesus and how does He differ? If I’ve misrepresented the position of mainstream Christianity, Islam or the Baha’i Faith please feel free to correct me. Thanks.
Science first is owner of the storytelling theme about O God the stone planet for science purposes of understanding and preaching philosophy.

Said that volcanic spurting forth of spirit like his penis, as ancients compared self to creation themes as expressive teaching, and impregnated the spatial cold zero womb.

And yet space is not any womb, it owns one word, being another relative teaching, if you preach via words only use first word one meaning and no other.

A lot of philosophers today ignore that teaching.

Space by pressure and also being extremely cold changed the volcanic gases, so it was quantified as owned by God first, then Immaculate was owned by womb secondly.

And Jesus and Mary is not discussed then, only Immaculate were.

After the MOSES attack on God the stone that caused the destruction that it did and mutated HUMAN DNA in the desert region of the pyramid temple technologies it was stated that the baby, as first born to human parents had been sacrificed.

So after the event of recurrence in pyramid Temple science, a DATA reviewed history was applied as proof of genetic sacrifice and life mutation of the human cellular bio body. Titled Jesus.

Only after the fact of the attack was the DATA correlated.

Therefore in the Israel area, where the Temple owned Jeru to turn the circuit/salem...in the technology trans mutation of God stone, into gold products, it was stated that DNA had healed and it had returned due to the atmospheric spatial Messenger....as a Mary space womb theme, Immaculate atmosphere had been returning due to asteroid wandering star gases.

How it was taught. So it was stated that it did not belong to God historically for Immaculate was origin and natural before science. Science knew it changed our atmosphere by UFO irradiation of it. So the Bahai information is correct reference to the story about Jesus...for that history only occurred due to Messenger advice.

To put back God stone gases by the release in spatial womb.
 

VoidoftheSun

Necessary Heretical, Fundamentally Orthodox
Its a great question. Baha’is would consider Paul an Apostle of Christ and his letters such as those to Romans and Corinthians as authentic and authoritative. However interpretation requires careful analysis based on historical and textural context. So the doctrine of atonement builds on a theological narrative based on Hebrew Scriptures (eg For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. Corinthians 15:22).

‘Abdu’l-Baha speaks of the meaning of sacrifice during one of His talks in America.

He realized that His blood would be shed and His body rent by violence. Notwithstanding His knowledge of what would befall Him, He arose to proclaim His message, suffered all tribulation and hardships from the people and finally offered His life as a sacrifice in order to illumine humanity—gave His blood in order to guide the world of mankind. He accepted every calamity and suffering in order to guide men to the truth. – Abdu’l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 450.

As Tony has mentioned all the Manifestations of God have sacrificed themselves. We should follow their example.

It is appropriate and befitting that in this illumined age—the age of the progress of the world of humanity—we should be self-sacrificing and should serve the human race. – Abdu’l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu’l-Baha, p. 68.

Obviously there is much more to this topic but the universality of suffering experienced by all the Founders of the world religions and the necessity for each of us to follow their example is an important starting point.

Also fascinating.

Do you think in the Baha'i view the extent of the effect of him 'illuminating humanity' (which I would agree) is something that unfolds more over time?

Your comment about the suffering experienced by the Prophets (or 'manifestations of God') is definitely quite a universal thing.
I remember a Hadith of Prophet Muhammad (A.S.) where he proclaimed "no Prophet has suffered more than I have" and I do sense it as an underlying reality for the Prophets.
Most of the Shia Imams were all maytred which is something that hits close to home (as they are the inheritors of the Deen).
The Bab's martyrdom was a tragic event, so to many of the Old Testament Prophets. There's something to what you said I think.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Humanity in science radiation mass fall out, trying hold extra radiation to allow for signals to own fission of mass of God, puts metallic radiation into our atmosphere to cool with water.

What it naturally never owned itself. Cooling belonged to pi O presence, gases spirit of God on the face of water that came out of the stone body historically.

Gases and not radiation owned that water mass.

So when it is used to cool extra UFO mass, then it formed metal solids in unnatural places, where the first human occurrence of being cut in atmospheric changes came from both as a mental awareness and also a physical occurrence, where his own self destructive ideals came from. For previously humans were naturally innocent and very spiritual. Death and murder once was not a part of our psyche.

Human life and UFO implant inference is that circumstance, science of the occult caused it...so it is relative historically to male teaching about how and why he was harmed in unnatural radiation mass cooling....that never belonged in our gases/spirit.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Also fascinating.

Do you think in the Baha'i view the extent of the effect of him 'illuminating humanity' (which I would agree) is something that unfolds more over time?

Your comment about the suffering experienced by the Prophets (or 'manifestations of God') is definitely quite a universal thing.
I remember a Hadith of Prophet Muhammad (A.S.) where he proclaimed "no Prophet has suffered more than I have" and I do sense it as an underlying reality for the Prophets.
Most of the Shia Imams were all maytred which is something that hits close to home (as they are the inheritors of the Deen).
The Bab's martyrdom was a tragic event, so to many of the Old Testament Prophets. There's something to what you said I think.

Baha'u'llah was tortured, imprisoned and exiled from his homeland for forty years. The Bab was you mentioned was executed as Christ was. Muhammad was tormented by His own people. Moses had His work cut out for Him dealing with an Egyptian Pharoah. Noah was ignored and ridiculed by His people. So all the Prophets of God suffer and sacrifice themselves in the path of God for our sakes.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Humanity in science radiation mass fall out, trying hold extra radiation to allow for signals to own fission of mass of God, puts metallic radiation into our atmosphere to cool with water.

What it naturally never owned itself. Cooling belonged to pi O presence, gases spirit of God on the face of water that came out of the stone body historically.

Gases and not radiation owned that water mass.

So when it is used to cool extra UFO mass, then it formed metal solids in unnatural places, where the first human occurrence of being cut in atmospheric changes came from both as a mental awareness and also a physical occurrence, where his own self destructive ideals came from. For previously humans were naturally innocent and very spiritual. Death and murder once was not a part of our psyche.

Human life and UFO implant inference is that circumstance, science of the occult caused it...so it is relative historically to male teaching about how and why he was harmed in unnatural radiation mass cooling....that never belonged in our gases/spirit.

I believe the Prophets of God bring healing to the sick and for those who are imprisoned by the conditions of this world, a reward awaits in the next. Go in peace sister.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Most of my threads are about religions other than my own. Recently a thread about the Muslim Jesus and another touching on the historical Jesus led to some thought provoking discussions. So with this thread I’d like to explore and compare the Christian Jesus and the Baha’i Jesus. Of course there is only one Jesus the Christ recorded in the NT. However there are different perspectives. For example there is the historical Jesus based on what we can reasonably establish to be true based on established methodology with analysis of historic documents and archaeology. Most scholars of antiquity would agree Jesus was an itinerant Jewish Preacher who was baptised by John the Baptist and crucified at the behest of Pontius Pilate.

The Christian Jesus is predominately understood through the four Gospels but also through the Apostolic letters. So beyond what we know of the historical Jesus, Jesus becomes so much more through the New Testament. Christ is understood to be God incarnate, the Son of God born to the Virgin Mary, one of the three aspects of the Trinity, and a fulfilment of Prophecies in Hebrew Scriptures. Jesus rose from the dead three days after being Crucified and then Ascended to be with His Father in Heaven during Pentecost after appearances to His Disciples. He inaugurated a New Covenant. Of course Christianity is a diverse religion and so there is a range of views but these are some of the key theological concepts in regards the Biblical Jesus.

Nearly six hundred years we have the emergence of Islam as the Quran is Revealed through Muhammad. Muhammad as the bearer of a Divine Message equivalent to the Torah through Moses and the Gospel through Christ brings a new vision. According mainstream Islam Jesus was born to the Virgin Mary but is not the son of god. He is a Prophet who brought the Gospel which was subsequently lost or corrupted. He was not part of a triune god for God is strictly One. He is not God incarnate for God can have no partners. He was not crucified for God would not allow crucifixion of one so exalted as Jesus. So the Muslim Jesus is very different from the Christian Jesus. The two versions are not reconciled. Mainstream Islam discounts the testimony of the Gospels as being superseded by the Quran which is considered by Muslims as the Word of God.

1260 Islamic years from the beginning of the Islamic calendar, in the year 1844, a Persian Merchant from Shiraz claims to be the Promised Qa’im and the bearer of a New Revelation. As the movement spreads through Persia opposition from clergy and the government seeks to eradicate this new found movement. The Bab (meaning the Gate) is executed and later thousands of His followers put to death.

The purpose of the Bab’s mission was to prepare for Him Whom God shall make manifest. Bahá’u’lláh has a vision while in prison in Tehran during 1852 and was later recognised by most Babis to be the Promised One. Bahá’u’lláh according to Baha’is also brought a Divine Revelation. Over 40 years through tablets and letters He provided extensive commentary on many themes touching on Christian topics as early as the 1860s through the Kitab-i-Iqan.

After 1892 when Bahá’u’lláh passed away, His eldest so ‘Abdu’l-Baha was appointed successor, leader, and authorised interpreter. ‘Abdu’l-Baha came into close contact with Westerners who were interested in this new Faith. Eventually He traveled to Europe and North America including the USA during 1912. Through out His Ministry He spoke at length about many Christian topics. One of the most important works is a book titled Some Answered Questions.

So if you’ve made it this far, this is my limited understanding of aspects of biblical scholarship, Christianity, Islam and the Baha’i Faith. I’ve avoided providing my view on what the Baha’i Faith says about Jesus. I might write about it later. I’m interested to hear who on this forum can explain the Baha’i Jesus. Who is He? What does He have in common with the Christian Jesus and how does He differ? If I’ve misrepresented the position of mainstream Christianity, Islam or the Baha’i Faith please feel free to correct me. Thanks.

You have made some statements that are completely against the Qur'an which you are claiming to be valid. Yet, ignoring that and the other parts about Bab and Bahaullah etc,

Does the Bahai faith accept the Athanasian Creed? Thats is the Christian Jesus. Your post is written well, and asks for basically a comparison between the Christian Jesus and the Bahai view of Jesus. The answer lies in the acceptance of the Athanasian Creed.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
How do you know the Torah was revealed through Moses?

That is my understanding based on both the Christian Revelation as taught through the NT and the Baha'i Writings. There is of course no historical evidence to support that it was.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
That is my understanding based on both the Christian Revelation as taught through the NT and the Baha'i Writings. There is of course no historical evidence to support that it was.

This is gonna end up in an irrelevant discussion so I shall refrain.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
You have made some statements that are completely against the Qur'an which you are claiming to be valid.

Although off topic, I've made it clear in the OP it is how I view mainstream Islamic thought. You are welcome to highlight any errors I've made with statements you believe correct them.

The relevance to the OP is that Muhammad made statements that appeared in contradiction to Christian thought at the time (eg Trinity, Son-ship and Divinity of Christ). In a similar manner Baha'u'llah corrected what He percieved to be problems with Islam at that time.

Does the Bahai faith accept the Athanasian Creed? Thats is the Christian Jesus. Your post is written well, and asks for basically a comparison between the Christian Jesus and the Bahai view of Jesus. The answer lies in the acceptance of the Athanasian Creed.

That is a reasonable question. We would not accept the Athanasian Creed in its entirety or see it as essential.

Its important to note that this Creed is not used universally in many Churches.
 
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