Who is a advaitin in Hindu philosophy?

[Shantanu]

I have been toying with various labels to describe myself and have been heavily criticised by others. I used to label myself as a satya-advaitist, or truth accommodationist who sought truth and accommodated himself in new found realities. But today I know everything that there is to know and will not learn anything new.

So I am describing myself as simply an advaitin. This is not the Advaitist Hindu that @SalixIncendium and possibly others have talked about. I believe in Consciousness that manifests itself through truth to let me live my own life as best as I can.

There are two terms here: advaitist that @Aupmanyav and SalixIncendium use to label themselves with and advaitin.

I am an advaitin and distinguish myself from them in that I follow Consciousness and unify with that Consciousness.

I do not know what Brahman is as no one has explained the meaning of this Hindu word to me but I do know what Consciousness is as I experience it every moment.

 

[Shantanu]

Mods, please change the spelling of ADVAITIN in the thread title, and place a question mark at the end. Sorry for my error.

 

[George-ananda]

But today I know everything that there is to know and will not learn anything new.

Was that sentence meant seriously??

 

[George-ananda]

I have been toying with various labels to describe myself and have been heavily criticised by others. I used to label myself as a satya-advaitist, or truth accommodationist who sought truth and accommodated himself in new found realities. But today I know everything that there is to know and will not learn anything new.

So I am describing myself as simply an advaitin. This is not the Advaitist Hindu that @SalixIncendium and possibly others have talked about. I believe in Consciousness that manifests itself through truth to let me live my own life as best as I can.

There are two terms here: advaitist that @Aupmanyav and SalixIncendium use to label themselves with and advaitin.

I am an advaitin and distinguish myself from them in that I follow Consciousness and unify with that Consciousness.

I do not know what Brahman is as no one has explained the meaning of this Hindu word to me but I do know what Consciousness is as I experience it every moment.

I tend to think you are misusing the term 'Advaitin'

From Wikipedia:

Advaita Vedanta (/ədˈvaɪtə vɛˈdɑːntə/; Sanskrit: अद्वैत वेदान्त, IAST: Advaita Vedānta, literally, "not-two"), originally known as Puruṣavāda,[1][note 1] is a school of Hindu philosophy, and one of the classic Indian paths to spiritual realization.Atman, is the same as the highest metaphysical Reality (Brahman). The followers of this school are known as Advaita Vedantins, or just Advaitins,[3] and they seek spiritual liberation through acquiring vidyā, meaning knowledge,[4] of one's true identity as Atman, and the identity of Atman and Brahman.

So unless you believe 'Atman, is the same as the highest metaphysical Reality (Brahman)' then you are hijacking a term that is already in common use in Hinduism.

Basically Advaitans believe Brahman Alone is Real and we normal humans are then Brahman temporarily entwined in Maya (illusion) and use vidya (knowledge) to Self-Realize/Brahman Realize.

You are of course free to believe as you choose but it is a mis-use of terms to take the same name as an already established school of thought.

 

[Shantanu]

I tend to think you are misusing the term 'Advaitin'

From Wikipedia:

Advaita Vedanta (/ədˈvaɪtə vɛˈdɑːntə/; Sanskrit: अद्वैत वेदान्त, IAST: Advaita Vedānta, literally, "not-two"), originally known as Puruṣavāda,[1][note 1] is a school of Hindu philosophy, and one of the classic Indian paths to spiritual realization.Atman, is the same as the highest metaphysical Reality (Brahman). The followers of this school are known as Advaita Vedantins, or just Advaitins,[3] and they seek spiritual liberation through acquiring vidyā, meaning knowledge,[4] of one's true identity as Atman, and the identity of Atman and Brahman.

So unless you believe 'Atman, is the same as the highest metaphysical Reality (Brahman)' then you are hijacking a term that is already in common use in Hinduism.

Basically Advaitans believe Brahman Alone is Real and we normal humans are then Brahman temporarily entwined in Maya (illusion) and use vidya (knowledge) to Self-Realize/Brahman Realize.

You are of course free to believe as you choose but it is a mis-use of terms to take the same name as an already established school of thought.

What is Brahman? Have you seen it: What is atman? Have you seen it?

 

[Shantanu]

Was that sentence meant seriously??

I have conducted my research and drawn my conclusions using terminology that mean what words convey: advaitin means someone who believes in the union of the self in the eternal Reality. So you are wrong in saying that I am misusing the term. There is no established school of Advaita Vedanta that I subscribe to because as I have said no one has explained to me in simple English what atman and Brahman are. I have my own interpretations of what these are from my own studies.

 

[George-ananda]

There is no established school of Advaita Vedanta that I subscribe to

I can agree with that BUT you shouldn't pick the same name that others have already picked for their established school unless you want to be confused with them. If you say I am 'Advaitin' then I would assume you are a follower of the established school called 'Advaita'.

 

[George-ananda]

What is Brahman? Have you seen it: What is atman? Have you seen it?

Brahman is held by those who teach of it to be pure consciousness best described as pure sat-cit-Ananda (being-awareness-bliss). Brahman can not be seen but only experienced. And no, I am not Brahman-Realized myself yet or there would be no purpose to my normal human life. I am following the path towards Brahman-Realization.

'What consciousness is?' is not a question our thinking minds can get behind.

“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are a part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”
― Max Planck, Where is Science Going?

 

[Shantanu]

Brahman is held by those who teach of it to be pure consciousness best described as pure sat-cit-Ananda (being-awareness-bliss). Brahman can not be seen but only experienced. And no, I am not Brahman-Realized myself yet or there would be no purpose to my normal human life. I am following the path towards Brahman-Realization.

'What consciousness is?' is not a question our thinking minds can get behind.

“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are a part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”
― Max Planck, Where is Science Going?

I have an understanding of Consciousness derived from first principles:

''Consciousness Energy of the Universe
I have postulated that the energy of the universe is two-fold: physical energy and consciousness energy. The physical energy is the light and heat generation while the consciousness energy describes life and all movement. Matter is produced from a combination of both these energies.

Consciousness energy has two components, that which gives life force and that which gives soul force. The life force is what gives atoms, compounds, cells, organs and organisms their movement. Life force for atoms and compounds is their chemical energy involved in the orbiting of electrons around atoms and the inorganic and organic bonding of atoms of different elements. In living organisms consciousness energy permeates the entire body and is responsible for the organism’s internal and external activities for living. The life force in biological systems is activated at birth and inactivated at death with changes detected by the DNA switching on this consciousness energy for biological living to begin, and similarly, DNA-associated instructions from cellular changes switching the life force off for the organism’s dying. The soul force causes the nerve impulses in the body to respond to external and internal (cellular, tissue and organ) changes as stimuli for protective action to be taken by the body.

In highly evolved animals with a central nervous system the brain detects the soul force of the consciousness energy in the centre called the mind. The soul force imparts thoughts and beliefs by virtue of its guna consciousness energy triad of sattvic, rajasic and tamasic properties. The mind selects the gunas from the soul and is affected by those gunas as directives on the basis of the genetics of the animal and its upbringing to generate thoughts that the body then acts on.''

The totality of physical energy and consciousness energy is described as Pure Consciousness and all that there is. If Advaita Vedantists say that this is Brahman, I accept that as correct. Satchitananda or Being-awareness-bliss does not say anything about what Consciousness is unless you clarify what it means to you. For me, Consciousness is all there is. I am all there is. No emotions involved. I am just very peaceful. I therefore exist in truth, awareness and bliss.

In advaita there is no duality because I am Pure Consciousness. How do I know that I am pure consciousness. Because I am conscious being. There is therefore no difference between me and Consciousness (the Brahman that I have defined). Please clarify if you are saying that the Hindu term Brahman is this pure Consciousness. I will have no problem in accepting that.

Equally, I say that the atoms that we are constituted by containing the consciousness energy incorporating the gunas is the 'atman' that Hindus believe in and I will then accept that this atman (nothing else) is Brahman (Pure Consciousness) as you have put it.

I am Pure Consciousness (Brahman) accordingly except that I do not use the word Brahman unless it is placed in the context that I have just done.

Every one is atman and in advaita Pure Consciousness or Brahman. They just do not know it. They have not realised this truth.

As far as ones dharma is concerned we act according to our gunas.

So why are you saying that I am using the word advaitin wrongly. Please explain.

 

[SalixIncendium]

What is Brahman? Have you seen it: What is atman? Have you seen it?

What is the point in asking if someone has seen Brahman or Atman? What are you trying to accomplish by asking these questions?

 

[Shantanu]

What is the point in asking if someone has seen Brahman or Atman? What are you trying to accomplish by asking these questions?

I want to know whether what I describe is the same as what they are describing in order to determine whether we are singing from the same hymn sheet.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I want to know whether what I describe is the same as what they are describing in order to determine whether we are singing from the same hymn sheet.

For starters, if you are "seeing" something, it is likely neither Atman or Brahman (at least Brahman in it's nirguna aspect). Atman is realized and experienced as one's true Self...one's true nature. And since the Atman is the same as Brahman per advaita, the same holds true for Brahman. Neither is "seen."

 

[SalixIncendium]

In advaita there is no duality because I am Pure Consciousness.

So far, so good. We're on the same page.

But we move to different "hymns" using your terminology here...

How do I know that I am pure consciousness. Because I am conscious being. There is therefore no difference between me and Consciousness (the Brahman that I have defined).

This is where we are in disagreement. The "I know...because I am a conscious being" portion of what you said is not pure consciousness. This statement is egocentric. The ego has no place in pure consciousness, at least in my view. Ego is a construct of maya.

Equally, I say that the atoms that we are constituted by containing the consciousness energy incorporating the gunas is the 'atman' that Hindus believe in and I will then accept that this atman (nothing else) is Brahman (Pure Consciousness) as you have put it.

In my view, the gunas a present in the subtle and gross bodies. They are not the Atman. They are not pure consciousness. I would have to wait for someone more scholarly than I to confirm if this is, indeed, the advaita perspective as well.

But in what you say here on in, we go back to singing the same chorus of the "hymn"...

I am Pure Consciousness (Brahman) accordingly except that I do not use the word Brahman unless it is placed in the context that I have just done.

Every one is atman and in advaita Pure Consciousness or Brahman. They just do not know it. They have not realised this truth.

As far as ones dharma is concerned we act according to our gunas.

I struggle to understand your thought process sometimes. Sometime you say things that make me think, "Yeah, he gets it!" Other times I'm left thinking, "Um, what?"

 

[Shantanu]

For starters, if you are "seeing" something, it is likely neither Atman or Brahman (at least Brahman in it's nirguna aspect). Atman is realized and experienced as one's true Self...one's true nature. And since the Atman is the same as Brahman per advaita, the same holds true for Brahman. Neither is "seen."

There is nothing being seen: it is all awareness and so Pure Consciousness. The correct description of Brahman is Satchitananda (truth-awareness-bliss). These are attributes of Brahman. It describes what Pure Consciousness is. I am satchitananda. Brahman is therefore Saguna Brahman. There is no evidence for any maya and for something called Nirguna Brahman to distinguish an absolute reality from the material world that we live in. Thus, as far as whether Pure Consciousness is transformed into an illusory world that we live in, I do not believe it is illusory. I have no evidence for it. I therefore do not believe in maya. You will have to convince me with evidence for it. I do not believe anything that there is not solid evidence for.

 

[SalixIncendium]

There is nothing being seen: it is all awareness and so Pure Consciousness. The correct description of Brahman is Satchitananda (truth-awareness-bliss). These are attributes of Brahman. It describes what Pure Consciousness is. I am satchitananda. Brahman is therefore Saguna Brahman. There is no evidence for any maya and for something called Nirguna Brahman to distinguish an absolute reality from the material world that we live in. Thus, as far as whether Pure Consciousness is transformed into an illusory world that we live in, I do not believe it is illusory. I have no evidence for it. I therefore do not believe in maya. You will have to convince me with evidence for it. I do not believe anything that there is not solid evidence for.

I have no intention of convincing anyone of anything. My experiences are my own. If they were intended to be yours, you would have experienced them yourself.

You have your take on this perceived reality based on your own experiences, and I on mine.

You have said elsewhere on the forum that you have nothing more to learn. I hope you for your own sake that you said that in jest. It would appear that your knowledge is leading you in the right direction. It would sadden me to see you've closed yourself off from any subsequent realizations.

 

[Shantanu]

I have no intention of convincing anyone of anything. My experiences are my own. If they were intended to be yours, you would have experienced them yourself.

You have your take on this perceived reality based on your own experiences, and I on mine.

You have said elsewhere on the forum that you have nothing more to learn. I hope you for your own sake that you said that in jest. It would appear that your knowledge is leading you in the right direction. It would be sad if you closed yourself off from any subsequent realizations.

 

[George-ananda]

I have an understanding of Consciousness derived from first principles:

''Consciousness Energy of the Universe
I have postulated that the energy of the universe is two-fold: physical energy and consciousness energy. The physical energy is the light and heat generation while the consciousness energy describes life and all movement. Matter is produced from a combination of both these energies.

Consciousness energy has two components, that which gives life force and that which gives soul force. The life force is what gives atoms, compounds, cells, organs and organisms their movement. Life force for atoms and compounds is their chemical energy involved in the orbiting of electrons around atoms and the inorganic and organic bonding of atoms of different elements. In living organisms consciousness energy permeates the entire body and is responsible for the organism’s internal and external activities for living. The life force in biological systems is activated at birth and inactivated at death with changes detected by the DNA switching on this consciousness energy for biological living to begin, and similarly, DNA-associated instructions from cellular changes switching the life force off for the organism’s dying. The soul force causes the nerve impulses in the body to respond to external and internal (cellular, tissue and organ) changes as stimuli for protective action to be taken by the body.

In highly evolved animals with a central nervous system the brain detects the soul force of the consciousness energy in the centre called the mind. The soul force imparts thoughts and beliefs by virtue of its guna consciousness energy triad of sattvic, rajasic and tamasic properties. The mind selects the gunas from the soul and is affected by those gunas as directives on the basis of the genetics of the animal and its upbringing to generate thoughts that the body then acts on.''

The totality of physical energy and consciousness energy is described as Pure Consciousness and all that there is. If Advaita Vedantists say that this is Brahman, I accept that as correct. Satchitananda or Being-awareness-bliss does not say anything about what Consciousness is unless you clarify what it means to you. For me, Consciousness is all there is. I am all there is. No emotions involved. I am just very peaceful. I therefore exist in truth, awareness and bliss.

In advaita there is no duality because I am Pure Consciousness. How do I know that I am pure consciousness. Because I am conscious being. There is therefore no difference between me and Consciousness (the Brahman that I have defined). Please clarify if you are saying that the Hindu term Brahman is this pure Consciousness. I will have no problem in accepting that.

Equally, I say that the atoms that we are constituted by containing the consciousness energy incorporating the gunas is the 'atman' that Hindus believe in and I will then accept that this atman (nothing else) is Brahman (Pure Consciousness) as you have put it.

I am Pure Consciousness (Brahman) accordingly except that I do not use the word Brahman unless it is placed in the context that I have just done.

Every one is atman and in advaita Pure Consciousness or Brahman. They just do not know it. They have not realised this truth.

As far as ones dharma is concerned we act according to our gunas.

So why are you saying that I am using the word advaitin wrongly. Please explain.

I see you had conversations with Salix after this post so I won't start from scratch.

My suggestion for you is to first try to understand what traditional Advaita Vedanta is saying before you jump to the step of whether you accept it or not.

If you have any questions I will try to help.

 

[Shantanu]

My suggestion for you is to first try to understand what traditional Advaita Vedanta is saying before you jump to the step of whether you accept it or not.

That is a good idea: where can you start me off with: Nirguna Brahman and maya? or paramarthika and vyvaharika? meditation on examining thoughts or meditation for a mind without thought clutter?

 

[George-ananda]

That is a good idea: where can you start me off with: Nirguna Brahman and maya? or paramarthika and vyvaharika? meditation on examining thoughts or meditation for a mind without thought clutter?

Of those three I would go with: 'Nirguna Brahman and maya?'

The key concept to start with is what do we mean by: Brahman

In my own western colloquial wording I would say it is the fundamental thing, The One Consciousness. The next issue is what do we mean by consciousness. Matter and energy moving around is not 'IT'. "IT' is something fundamental and a mystery to our thinking minds. What is this thing that makes all these gazillions individual atoms, cells, neurons experience as a single unit? This mysterious thing is what we call Brahman and a ray of this mysterious fundamental source is what animates all temporary living things.

 

[Shantanu]

The key concept to start with is what do we mean by: Brahman

In my own western colloquial wording I would say it is the fundamental thing, The One Consciousness. The next issue is what do we mean by consciousness. Matter and energy moving around is not 'IT'. "IT' is something fundamental and a mystery to our thinking minds. What is this thing that makes all these gazillions individual atoms, cells, neurons experience as a single unit? This mysterious thing is what we call Brahman and a ray of this mysterious fundamental source is what animates all temporary living things.

So according to your advaita Brahman is not One Consciousness that manifests itself as the universe but is a component of the universe that makes the entire universe function and managed/preserved/propagated. I am not sure if that is what Advaita Vedanta says as such science was not known to those who conceptualised Advaita Vedanta in my assessment. You may have other reasons for this view. A more western idea of it all.

My view is more Hindu in that everything that we experience are inseparable and together constitute Pure Consciousness. It is this Consciousness that is termed Satchitananda which is everything living beings included. I am satchitananda and nothing else. However, the details of how the universe is manifest into the visible world that we experience in vyvaharika as an illusion through maya perhaps was given earlier. This will raise the question of where maya comes from. Perhaps from Pure Consciousness. Maya has the effect of transforming Nirguna Brahman into Saguna Brahman which is where we see God acting. In paramarthika then, the absolute reality, there is only Pure Consciousness that incorporates maya. As an advaitin I am this Pure Consciousness.

Please help me get this right: As @SalixIncendium advised I am open to a review for a fresh new realisation if this is accepted by other advaitists.