Who imprisoned us?

[Left Coast]

To toil lifelong, to bring children into this world, try to give them education, and die in the end — most likely in pain?

Who is responsible for this?
...

Nobody can put you into a prison. You are already there.
Jiddu Krishnamoorthy

...

Hi atanu!

I'm not convinced there's ultimately a "who" at the bottom of these questions, perhaps just a "what."

Is there evidence that convinces you it's a "who"?

 

[stvdv]

Why did you take birth?

To not be born again

To toil lifelong, to bring children into this world, try to give them education, and die in the end — most likely in pain?

NO.

Who is responsible for this?

The ego and it's Identification with the body, mind etc

Nobody can put you into a prison. You are already there.
Jiddu Krishnamoorthy

"Who Am I" is the way to Self Realization

 

[The Anointed]

To not be born again


NO.


The ego and it's Identification with the body, mind etc


"Who Am I" is the way to Self Realization

I am 'who I am' may i never lose sight
Of the fact that I am 'who I am' day and night
I'm not 'who I was' nor 'who I will be'
For 'WHO I AM' is the name, that my God gave to me.

 

[atanu]

Hi atanu!

I'm not convinced there's ultimately a "who" at the bottom of these questions, perhaps just a "what."

Is there evidence that convinces you it's a "who"?

Okay. What is that what?

 

[atanu]

I didn't choose to be born. I didn't exist, let alone exist in any form capable of choice. Even when I was born the question would have been fairly meaningless to me for the first five years at best.

Should I foresee a painful death for me, because I live in a city I have ready access to palliative care.

You seem to imply that being alive is the dirty end of the stick. I respectfully but firmly disagree.

And yes, the male and female bodies are role-specific in the breeding process. We brought three kids into the world, my wife doing the hard work and me helping round the fringes. They're doing their own version of that now.
Evolution, and my parents, and (given the spermatozoon race) plain luck.

I'm not whining.

Most go around with artificial grin. Hope yours is genuine and remains so.

 

[atanu]

IDK, Understanding it is overrated, imho.

But I think it's all for the best even the suffering and the work.

As a created being, arriving here without a user-manual on life. I think it's easier not seek understanding of mySelf and instead enjoy doing what I was made to do: live a mortal life. If/When questing for understanding interferes with the enjoyment of that mortal life, I opt for life instead of understanding.

Then why were you given/equipped with a fine honed intellect?

 

[atanu]

Why not ask all other life - you'll probably get as reasonable an answer as here, when the only other option is no life. Best thing since sliced bread if you ask me.

Do you mean that sliced bread is the best part of life?

 

[atanu]

I'm afraid I don't understand the question. I find it very confusing with how it is worded.

The question may not be applicable to you.

 

[dybmh]

Then why were you given/equipped with a fine honed intellect?

To find new, better, and more beautiful forms of devotion.

 

[atanu]

To find new, better, and more beautiful forms of devotion.

You are of Bhakti marga. That is the sweet path.

But alas, I have diabetes.

 

[Left Coast]

Okay. What is that what?

No idea.

 

[Deeje]

IDK, Understanding it is overrated, imho.

But it is soooo human to want answers...isn't it?

But I think it's all for the best even the suffering and the work.

But still we wonder why...? The not knowing leads us into all kinds of rabbit warrens with no exit....left scratching our heads as we hit the back wall. If there is a shovel handy, shouldn't we dig some more? What if the other side, leading to all the answers is just inches away, and we give up and walk back to where we were before, none the wiser?

As a created being, arriving here without a user-manual on life. I think it's easier not seek understanding of mySelf and instead enjoy doing what I was made to do: live a mortal life.

But isn't living that mortal life enriched if we know the reason for our being? Who said we arrived without a user-manual? What do you think the Bible is? It tells us all we 'need' to know....yet not all we 'want' to know....I believe that when all things return to their originals, (back to where it all began) we will get a full education. In the mean time, we all have the same amount of hours in a day....I believe its how we spend them that counts...

If/When questing for understanding interferes with the enjoyment of that mortal life, I opt for life instead of understanding.

I cannot live without understanding.....my life would be an incomplete and frustrating waste of time and energy if I did not know why I was here and why life can be such a joy at times, and a dreadful nightmare at others. I have to be able to make sense of it all. Studying the scriptures has helped me to do that.

So many want to blame God for everything, but a knowledge of scripture provides the explanation for it all....and to me it is very satisfying.....giving us a future....something to look forward to.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Do you mean that sliced bread is the best part of life?

No, just that the alternative is a bit sad - non-existence.

(Best thing since sliced bread is a common English expression to mark some benefit as being the best, and in jest)

 

[dybmh]

You are of Bhakti marga

I beg to differ. I am a Jew. The Bhakti marga look to show to devotion to a guru through love and grace.

As a Jew my ultimate objective is to show devotion to G-d and his Creation with all limbs of my self and with all my heart and with all my soul. This includes more than grace and love.

 

[columbus]

Then why were you given/equipped with a fine honed intellect?

What makes you think anybody has a fine honed intellect?

Looking at humans, our history and ethics and knowledge and everything else, I see no reason to believe that anybody has that.
Tom

 

[atanu]

I beg to differ. I am a Jew. The Bhakti marga look to show to devotion to a guru through love and grace.

As a Jew my ultimate objective is to show devotion to G-d and his Creation with all limbs of my self and with all my heart and with all my soul. This includes more than grace and love.

Thank you @dybmh.

I understand the differences yet I believe them to be of the path — of the methods and modes. But for what are the methods for? Is that different for for different religions and different people?

The ultimate of ‘bhakti marga’ is total surrender to God, called sharanagati or prapatti. Ultimately, in complete surrender, there is no ego self that remains as a ‘doer’.
...

 

[atanu]

What makes you think anybody has a fine honed intellect?

Looking at humans, our history and ethics and knowledge and everything else, I see no reason to believe that anybody has that.
Tom

I agree that it may seem that humans are devoid of finely honed intellect. But I believe that it seems like that because we see the mongrel effects — because intellect is shadowed by effects of ignorance of ego. There is purity, there is pure intellect but clouded.

YMMV.
...

 

[atanu]

No, just that the alternative is a bit sad - non-existence.

(Best thing since sliced bread is a common English expression to mark some benefit as being the best, and in jest)

Of course. But we differ.

I believe that non existent can never become existent and the True existent can never go out of existence. These are two different categories.

...

...

 

[dybmh]

Thank you @dybmh.

I understand the differences yet I believe them to be of the path — of the methods and modes. But for what are the methods for? Is that different for for different religions and different people?

The ultimate of ‘bhakti marga’ is total surrender to God, called sharanagati or prapatti. Ultimately, in complete surrender, there is no ego self that remains as a ‘doer’.
...

From a Jewish perspective, a Jewish person's purpose is to anchor Earth ( the material world ) by doing good deeds. Another analogy is to be the liaisons between heaven and earth. In order to do that, the ego must be maintained, but formed only into divine purposes. Thus Halacha ( Jewish Law ). Without the ego, a person would no longer be able to act as liaison. That requires 'boots on the ground', so to speak.

 

[atanu]

Hi atanu!

I'm not convinced there's ultimately a "who" at the bottom of these questions, perhaps just a "what."

No idea.

Well. ‘Not convinced’ and then ‘No idea’? These pertain to a ‘what’ or to a ‘who’?

Or, at the bottom (I am using your words) are you not convinced about your existence?
...