Who embarked Isra/Mir'aj-Prophet Muhammad or Moses?

[mojtaba]

Respective responds :

1. Qur'an confirms that the messengers are also from the angels and angels were created before Prophet Adam , then how it is possible that no messengers from angels ever existed before Prophet Muhammad . Traditionally it is believed that angel messengers came to Prophet Abaraham and Lot to warn their clans and brothers .

Qur'an also confirms that the angels who take life are also messengers of Almighty GOD . Before Prophet Muhammad some billions people must have died and the messenger angels must have taken their lives with the leave of Almighty GOD . It also proves that messengers from angels were there prior Prophet Muhammad .

And also Archangel Gabriel etc.

Then ? Is it a contradiction ? Let me leave it with you to dig it out ....

2. Similar that you cited :

[004:172] The Messiah does by no means disdain that he should be a servant of Allah, nor do the angels who are near to Him, and whoever disdains His service and is proud, He will gather them all together to Himself.

Not a good answer.

Allah siad to Prophet Muhammad to ask from the Messengers that died before him. You said that, Allah said to Prophet to ask from the angels that revealed to the past Prophets, not Prophets themselves. But this reply could not be correct. Because,

1. Quran clearly says, 'Ask[ O Muhammad ] those of Our Messengers We sent before thee: Have We appointed, apart from the All-merciful, gods to be served?'[43:45].

This verse is clear and you want to chage it. I do not see any angel in the verse.

If you were right, the verse would be, ' Ask O Muhammad, those angels that we sent to Our Messengers that were before thee....'
The verse is clear, except you want to change and distort it.

2. There are a verse like this one in Holy Quran in which Allah asks from Jesus that question which said to Prophet Muhammad to ask from the past Prophets,

[5:116] And when God said, 'O Jesus son of Mary, didst thou say unto men, "Take me and my mother as gods, apart from God"?' He said, 'To Thee be glory! It is not mine to say what I have no right to...'

So, that verse[ i.e., 43:45 ] means that Allah said to Prophet Muhammad to directly ask from those Prophets that passed away before him such and such things, not from the angels.

 

[mojtaba]

1. The travel of Prophet Moses began from Egypt, while in the verse of Isra of Prophet Muhammad, it is mentioned that the begining of his travel was from Masjidul Haram( Sacred Mosque ), a place that according to 10 verses of Quran is in Mecca. See post #68.

Also, Allah has said in the verse 27:91 that He has made the Mecca, Haram( Sacred )[ إِنَّمَا أُمِرْتُ أَنْ أَعْبُدَ رَبَّ هَـٰذِهِ الْبَلْدَةِ الَّذِي حَرَّمَهَا( I am commanded only that I should serve the Lord of this city, Who has made it sacred ) ]. So, this is another verse which strongly proves that Masjid Al-Haram( Sacred Mosque ) is in Mecca, not Egypt.

2. Prophet Moses traveled with his people, while the verse which is about the travel of Prophet Muhammad only talk about one person.

Verses which are for Moses(a.s.),
20.77 And We had inspired to Moses, "Travel by night with My servants..."
26.52 And We inspired to Moses, "Travel by night with My servants; indeed, you will be pursued."

But see the verse which is for Prophet Muhammad who traveled without any other human,

[17:1]Immaculate is He who carried His servant on a journey by a night from the Masjidul Haram [Sacred Mosque] to the Farthest Mosque whose environs We have blessed, that We might show him some of Our signs. Indeed, He is the All-hearing, the All-seeing.

And other evidences which I mentioned throughout this thread and prove that the verse of Isra is only about Prophet Muhammad, not others.

 

[Union]

Not a good answer.

Allah siad to Prophet Muhammad to ask from the Messengers that died before him. You said that, Allah said to Prophet to ask from the angels that revealed to the past Prophets, not Prophets themselves. But this reply could not be correct. Because,

1. Quran clearly says, 'Ask[ O Muhammad ] those of Our Messengers We sent before thee: Have We appointed, apart from the All-merciful, gods to be served?'[43:45].

This verse is clear and you want to chage it. I do not see any angel in the verse.

If you were right, the verse would be, ' Ask O Muhammad, those angels that we sent to Our Messengers that were before thee....'
The verse is clear, except you want to change and distort it.

2. There are a verse like this one in Holy Quran in which Allah asks from Jesus that question which said to Prophet Muhammad to ask from the past Prophets,

[5:116] And when God said, 'O Jesus son of Mary, didst thou say unto men, "Take me and my mother as gods, apart from God"?' He said, 'To Thee be glory! It is not mine to say what I have no right to...'

So, that verse[ i.e., 43:45 ] means that Allah said to Prophet Muhammad to directly ask from those Prophets that passed away before him such and such things, not from the angels.

This is the second time you are trying to say that Qur'an is having contradiction and flaws . Angels were existed before Prophet Muhammad . They were also Rasul . Hence those verses you cited in your favor should be understood not on the ground of their title of messengership rather with respect to some other criterion . Qur'an clarifies it :

And We sent not before you (as Messengers) any but men, whom We inspired from among the people of townships. Have they not travelled through the earth and seen what was the end of those who were before them? And verily, the home of the Hereafter is the best for those who fear Allah and obey Him (by abstaining from sins and evil deeds, and by performing righteous good deeds). Do you not then understand? 12:109

And We sent not (as Our messengers) before thee other than men, whom We inspired. Ask the followers of the Reminder if ye know not? We gave them not bodies that would not eat food, nor were they immortals. S. 21:7-8

The messengers among men who passed away before Prophet Muhammad got Wahi from Almighty GOD while angels only convey the orders and messages from GOD as Rasul .

Problem solved .

 

[Union]

1. The travel of Prophet Moses began from Egypt, while in the verse of Isra of Prophet Muhammad, it is mentioned that the begining of his travel was from Masjidul Haram( Sacred Mosque ), a place that according to 10 verses of Quran is in Mecca. See post #68.

Also, Allah has said in the verse 27:91 that He has made the Mecca, Haram( Sacred )[ إِنَّمَا أُمِرْتُ أَنْ أَعْبُدَ رَبَّ هَـٰذِهِ الْبَلْدَةِ الَّذِي حَرَّمَهَا( I am commanded only that I should serve the Lord of this city, Who has made it sacred ) ]. So, this is another verse which strongly proves that Masjid Al-Haram( Sacred Mosque ) is in Mecca, not Egypt.

2. Prophet Moses traveled with his people, while the verse which is about the travel of Prophet Muhammad only talk about one person.

Verses which are for Moses(a.s.),
20.77 And We had inspired to Moses, "Travel by night with My servants..."
26.52 And We inspired to Moses, "Travel by night with My servants; indeed, you will be pursued."

But see the verse which is for Prophet Muhammad who traveled without any other human,

[17:1]Immaculate is He who carried His servant on a journey by a night from the Masjidul Haram [Sacred Mosque] to the Farthest Mosque whose environs We have blessed, that We might show him some of Our signs. Indeed, He is the All-hearing, the All-seeing.

And other evidences which I mentioned throughout this thread and prove that the verse of Isra is only about Prophet Muhammad, not others.

All verses related to Isra is involving only one person , who is Prophet Moses , hence AMAH and related issues should be understood to fit him . I am not going to change this status only because Hadith said it to be Prophet Muhammad .

Regarding the numbers of people of Isra , verse 20.77 and 26.52 is the supplement of of verse 17.1 . If I say 'ALLAH took Mojtaba to Hajj' doesn't mean that you are only going alone . You may accompany 100 peoples which doesn't make any incoherence with the initial statement .

 

[mojtaba]

This is the second time you are trying to say that Qur'an is having contradiction and flaws .

I never said that there are contradictions in Holy Quran. Do not attribute lies to me.

I believe that it is enough and others who read the posts can see them and then judge.

May Allah forgive whomever changes the meaning of the verses of His Book.

 

[Union]

I believe that it is enough and others who read the posts can see them and then judge.

May Allah forgive whomever changes the meaning of the verses of His Book.

I got 2 likes from Non-Muslims in this thread . They are impartial judges to this thread to scrutinize the issues we discuss with logic and rationality .

And Ameen to the 2nd one .

 

[mojtaba]

I got 2 likes from Non-Muslims in this thread . They are impartial judges to this thread to scrutinize the issues we discuss with logic and rationality .

Oh. Those likes were before my posts.

Good bye!

 

[Union]

Oh. Those likes were before my posts.

Good bye!

One came earlier and the other came today .

 

[mojtaba]

One came earlier and the other came today .

That like was for the first post of this thread. Hence, without any doubt, he/she had not read my posts which begin from the 2th page of this thread, when he/she gave like to your post.

 

[Union]

That like was for the first post of this thread. Hence, without any doubt, he/she had not read my posts which begin from the 2th page of this thread, when he/she gave like to your post.

OP was judged by all other posts.

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

Salaams to all.
The transliteration of the verse 17.1
"Subhana allathee asrabiAAabdihi laylan mina almasjidi alharami ilaalmasjidi al-aqsa allathee barakna hawlahulinuriyahu min ayatina innahu huwa assameeAAualbaseer"
English translation.
almasjidi alharami =Sacred Mosque.
ilaalmasjidi al-aqsa =Farthest Mosque.

Your answer is very clear but Union i am going to play with your brains.
Prove to us which is your Sacred Mosque and which is your Farthest Mosque.
Salaams

Masjid Masjid al Haraam is in Mecca if you read 48:24 of the Quran. It's the Kaabaa, 5:97.

But a cleaned one of course, nowadays they changed it again after Muhammed left. They are back to the old days, lying to the people etc. and now they are using the ahadith as the tool.

But i have my questions about masjid ma aqsa.

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

Valey of Towa is in Egypt from where prophet Moses started his journey and Masjid Al Aqsa is in Israel where he finished his Isra .

This can be the interpretation as well.

Since the Masjid al Haraam is the Temple of God which is not for just a specific prophet or time etc.

The Quran said in chapter 2 that the people of the Book know the Masjid as their children. Which is the one build by Moses, Solomon and the one in the time of Jesus Christ. Since the Scriptures such as the Tora etc. give a very detailed explenation of what the Temple is, how it should be build and who works in it etc.

It's basically the system of offering. For the sins, for praises etc

So brother to you....
1.O
ur Qiblah must be in the direction of Egypt.
2.Moses (pbbuh) was not in the fold of Islam hence he was a Kafir (Allah forbid)
3.The entire land in present day Israel is called Musjidal Aqsa.

What about Ebrahim AS was he also not in the fold of Islam?

Masjid is a general term for the Temple.

It can mention the one build by Abraham and Ishmael which was cleaned by Muhammad, and now defiled again by the muhaditheen.

It can mention the one in the time of Jesus Christ.

In the time of Solomon.

In the time of Moses.

Etc.

Or even the one in Heaven. You know what i am talking about if you have read the Gospel.

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

So after Moses (pbbuh) many a Prophets came after him.
Which was their Qiblah?
When did the Qiblah change take place?
How many Masjidul Haram are mentioned in the Noble Quraan?

Now if all Prophets were in Islam then what about the Bani Israel.
We're they also in Islam?

The Qiblah changed after the Temple was destroyed.

In the time of Jesus Christ, they were praying towards the one in Jerusalem. But it was destroyed.

Then they started praying towards the one in Heaven.

Then the Arabs get the Quran. And God uses the Kaaba as the Temple, because it was originally a system build by Ishmael.
And Muhammad cleaned it. But the muhaditheen took over again now.


PS: Becca can also be a code name for Mecca because it was the place of crying. Read the Tora to read about how Hajar and Ishmael were crying etc. until God did send an angel, and when the zamzam water came from the ground. Because Becca means place of crying.

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

So after Moses (pbbuh) many a Prophets came after him.
Which was their Qiblah?
When did the Qiblah change take place?
How many Masjidul Haram are mentioned in the Noble Quraan?

Now if all Prophets were in Islam then what about the Bani Israel.
We're they also in Islam?

The Qiblah in the time of Moses, were first their houses. The Quran even says this btw!

Then the Qiblah started being the Temple which they build.

Then in the time of Solomon it was the Temple in Jerusalem.

Etc.

Read the Tora, Zabur, Injeel and Quran to understand the Masjid concept more

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

Salaams brother Union
Which was the first Qiblah that our Nabi SAW faced before the change took place?

It can be the one in Heaven to be precise. But you have to read the Injeel for this. It explains how the Temple in Heaven is being a model for the ones on earth.

Or it could have been hes own home. Since the Israelites used their own homes as well when there was no Temple.

And the Injeel also explains that the human body is the Temple as well.

So read the Scriptures and learn more about the term Masjid al Haraam etc.

There were multiple ones in multiple times.