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Who does not believe in freedom of choice in religion?

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Who does not believe in freedom of choice in religion? Confessions? I hear some here don't believe in it.... Come out come out wherever you are. You can also just name one from the last 1000 years and that way safely divert attention from yourself.

Probably nobody here that isn't a religious person trying to impose his beliefs on the unwilling.

As others have noted, there are actually people in the world who are religiously oppressed, but not the ones I hear clamoring about their religious freedoms in America. They have all of the religious freedom they are entitled to and more, so there is no issue there.

Yet these people cry persecution anyway whenever there is any effort to stem their incursion into the lives of the unwilling. Like just about every American going on about their rights, these are mostly selfish, self-indulgent people who don't care about the rights of others, in this case, to be be free from their religion.

I put them in the same basket with the people complaining about their right to go out into public without a mask, also self-indulgent people who don't seem to care about anybody but themselves.

And the gun rights people.

And even the freedom of speech complainers demanding the right to be heard on any platform of their choice unimpeded, like Trump whining about being censored on social media platforms, as if he had the right to express himself however he likes wherever he like, but efforts to contain that are unfair.

So not surprisingly, I don't care about any of these people (all conservatives, you'll note), nor any of what they want, including the religious complaining about religious persecution for not being allowed to do whatever they want without regard for anybody else. And when I hear about rights from these tantrumming infants, I turn a deaf ear.

The real rights issues in America involve the right to vote, the right to affordable health care, the right to be a person of color without punishment for that alone.
 

ppp

Well-Known Member
Why should anyone credit your vain claims? You've already tried to confine me to a denomination of one, by way of trying to undermine me and seeking to pretend that Christianity confines all to denominations: consistent with purile heathenism but not with the Christian religion. So you've been proved economical with the truth just in that.
That isn't an argument for anything. You are just grumbling.
 

eik

Active Member
What has that got to do with silly remarks slandering a whole set of people just because they disagree with your beliefs?

Slander: Is an untrue spoken statement about someone which is intended to damage their reputation.
No idea what you're talking about. When you make an allegation of slander you produce facts first, not treat the case as proven ab initio before citing them.

You'll never make a lawyer.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
No idea what you're talking about. When you make an allegation of slander you produce facts first, not treat the case as proven ab initio before citing them.

You'll never make a lawyer.

Can't read either then - neither would you (make even a lawyer's assistant). Making statements like 'puerile heathens' is just an offhand remark for you then? Sums you up. Spent your life building brick s***houses?
 
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eik

Active Member
Can't read either then - neither would you (make even a lawyer's assistant). Making statements like 'puerile heathens' is just an offhand remark for you then? Sums you up. Spent your life building brick s***houses?
Puerile heathens doesn't infer all heathens are puerile, because some may be heathens just because they may have never heard the gospel. However It allows that some are, particularly those that reject the gospel.

Allegations of puerility could never count as slander in any court of law, and is only made by you because you have no real answer to the core allegation. In any event it is a consistent biblical doctrine that those ignorant of the faith without excuse are childish.

Proverbs 14:18 The childish shall possess folly (Douay-Rheims Bible)

Ecclesiastes 10:16 "Woe to you, O land, when your king is childish.." (Net bible)

Isaiah 3:2 "Childish leaders oppress my people, and women rule over them." (New Living Translation)

Ps 14:1 " The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt; their acts are vile. There is no one who does good."

2 Cor 13:11 "When I became a man, I gave up childish ways...."
 

Pipiripi

End Times Prophecy.
I don't believe in free choice, because God have rules. We must obey God and have the faith of Jesus.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
Puerile heathens doesn't infer all heathens are puerile, because some may be heathens just because they may have never heard the gospel. However It allows that some are, particularly those that reject the gospel.

Allegations of puerility could never count as slander in any court of law, and is only made by you because you have no real answer to the core allegation. In any event it is a consistent biblical doctrine that those ignorant of the faith without excuse are childish.

Proverbs 14:18 The childish shall possess folly (Douay-Rheims Bible)

Ecclesiastes 10:16 "Woe to you, O land, when your king is childish.." (Net bible)

Isaiah 3:2 "Childish leaders oppress my people, and women rule over them." (New Living Translation)

Ps 14:1 " The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt; their acts are vile. There is no one who does good."

2 Cor 13:11 "When I became a man, I gave up childish ways...."

Does all that then apply to all the other faiths that do not worship the one God? Or is it a case of double standards and they get a bit more respect for some reason?

PS Do you think it OK for any non-believers to use such language towards those with any particular religious belief? I have never done so (and would not), not because there are often blasphemy laws to protect religious beliefs but because it is simply disrespectful - and I don't believe it to be true either.
 
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eik

Active Member
Wow, you hear such misogyny and believe it to be true and of God?!
Look into the heretical churches and you will find that all of them are into elevating women into leadership and roles and into positions of equality. That's not to say that the men are not equally sinful, but it is a feature of heresy in religion that it is well subscribed to by grasping women who imagine that being equal with men is something to be attained, when they have already been given equality in a spiritual sense by the gospel. Of course the bible is talking about spiritual leadership here: something that doesn't really exist in the modern antichristian democracy, and which it can't relate to.
 
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Secret Chief

nirvana is samsara
Look into the heretical churches and you will find that all of them are into elevating women into leadership and roles and into positions of equality. That's not to say that the men are not equally sinful, but it is a feature of heresy in religion that it well subscribed to be grasping women who imagine that being equal with men is something to be attained, when they have already been given equality in a spiritual sense by the gospel. Of course the bible is talking about spiritual leadership here: something that doesn't really exist in the modern antichristian democracy, and which it can't relate to.
So is the upshot of this that you believe women are inferior to men in the matter of spiritual leadership? (Can't quite be sure if that is your meaning) If this is the case, why do you think this?
 

eik

Active Member
So is the upshot of this that you believe women are inferior to men in the matter of spiritual leadership? (Can't quite be sure if that is your meaning) If this is the case, why do you think this?
It's axiomatic that women are more easily deceived than men, but it is also axiomatic that sinful men can be equally sinful as deceived women. 1 Tim 2:11-15.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I don't believe in free choice, because God have rules. We must obey God and have the faith of Jesus.
If we don't have free choice, how could we choose to obey God's rules? Why would God even need rules, if we're essentially automatons?
Or are the 'rules' just some kind of inbuilt programming?

Now the Calvinist churches also agree that we don't have free will, because they believe God's omniscient, and knows our every action and ultimate fate even before we're born.

Is this omniscience the reason you don't believe in free choice?
If so, what would faith in Jesus gain us? Both our actions in life and fate in the afterlife are pre-ordained.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Look into the heretical churches and you will find that all of them are into elevating women into leadership and roles and into positions of equality. That's not to say that the men are not equally sinful, but it is a feature of heresy in religion that it is well subscribed to by grasping women who imagine that being equal with men is something to be attained, when they have already been given equality in a spiritual sense by the gospel. Of course the bible is talking about spiritual leadership here: something that doesn't really exist in the modern antichristian democracy, and which it can't relate to.
Why do you believe women have a lower 'earthly' status then men? Why do you believe they have different roles and are not equal?

Reasons, please -- and please reason. No Biblical quotations. Biblical quotations are no more authoritative than quotations from Baha'i, Hindu or Mayan scriptures, or even The Chronicles of Narnia. (If you believe they are, I'd be interested in your justification for this, as well).

Question: Are women a clever form of livestock, or are they, rather, eternal children?

It's axiomatic that women are more easily deceived than men, but it is also axiomatic that sinful men can be equally sinful as deceived women. 1 Tim 2:11-15.
I don't believe this "axiomatic" premise, I'll echo Secret Chief: How did you come up with this?
 
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