Who Do You Believe that Jesus Is?

[Coder]

Hi,

The Christian Scriptures record Jesus as asking "Who do you say that I am?" and I am interested in answers to that question and the basis for the answer. The Christian Scriptures indicate that the answer is that faith in Him is a gift from God.

I respect and love much of the wisdom found in both the Hebrew and Christian Scriptures, however, I think that the Christian Scriptures may be pragmatic in many ways and contain external influences. Some go as far as to propose that Jesus is a fictional figure. Do some think that Christianity is possibly a fable by the Roman Empire to have one state religion? I don't go that far but I do see that Christianity seems to incorporate elements from so many religions/beliefs in the Roman Empire at that time. Here is a list of Christian replacements of or commonality with former religions:

Jewish sacrifices -- new Sacrifice
Passover meal -- Christian "breaking of the bread" (Communion)
patron gods in Roman religion -- saints in Roman Church
Jupiter (sky father) in Roman religion -- God the Father
God as Father in Judaism -- God the Father
Jupiter (sky father) -- Jesus ascended into the sky
father-son gods in Roman religion -- Father and Son
Holy Spirit in Judaism -- Unity of the Trinity (Father-Son)
gods who impregnated women in Greek/Roman/pagan religion -- virgin birth
The human soul in Greek philosophy -- The belief in the soul
God breathes life into man in Judaism (Holy Spirit) -- Jesus is man by the Holy Spirit

Also one may wonder if it is coincidental that the Jewish Temple was destroyed by the Romans and Jewish sacrifices ceased. Some of the miracles of Jesus have close parallels in the Hebrew Scriptures. It is interesting that some responded to Jesus that some say He is Elijah. Also, one may wonder if some of the portrayal of Jewish leaders in Christian Scriptures accepted by the Roman Church was not based on Roman opposition to Judaism. At the same time, other Scripture passages seem to appeal to other Jews to accept this new religion (e.g. to form unity in the Empire). If the Roman government had an interest in turning Jewish people against their own leaders and have them accept a new state religion, wouldn't that be a clever way to do it? This raises the question of whether the Romans modified and leveraged Christianity (including Scripture) for their own purposes.

 

[Thief]

of Himself, He did say......'brother and fellow servant'

 

[Neo Deist]

Who Do You Believe that Jesus Is?

A long dead prophet and teacher, that became a martyr and the icon of a rebellion.

 

[Sunstone]

Also, it seems odd to me (and scholars) that a Jewish rabbi would be so strong/harsh against Jewish leaders....

Umm...I'm no authority on the scriptures, but has there ever been a time when Jewish prophets were not strong/harsh against Jewish leaders?

 

[Brickjectivity]

If the Roman government had an interest in turning Jewish people against their own leaders and have them accept a new state religion, wouldn't that be a clever way to do it? This raises the question of whether the Romans modified and leveraged Christianity (including Scripture) for their own purposes.

According to accepted History the Roman government did not do this and faced Christianity as a new force to be reckoned with. More than one emperor opposed Christians. Some did not.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I see Jesus as a spiritual King, Who established His spiritual ascendancy and sovereignty over all the peoples of the world.
He was a Manifestation of a God, a pure Mirror reflecting God, the Sun, so to speak, within. He was God's Representative on earth. He is described in the Baha'i Writings as 'that peerless Beauty'.

He was the Beauty of God amidst men that the world fell in love with and still loves and cherishes and the most Precious of the Precious. He is in my heart always and I will forever never account myself worthy of having heard His blessed Name or believed in Him.

 

[Coder]

Hi,

According to accepted History the Roman government did not do this and faced Christianity as a new force to be reckoned with. More than one emperor opposed Christians. Some did not.

What was Christianity before becoming the state religion and what was it after? Plus how do we know? - the victors often write "history". Jewish Temple destroyed, pagan temples destroyed post-Constantine, early Christian writings not destroyed/modified? Why does St. Paul hardly mention the events in the earthly life of Jesus yet the Gospels written later, do?

 

[Sunstone]

I think Jesus came out of the Jewish prophetic tradition and was -- in his own eyes -- a reformer of Judaism, rather than the founder of a new religion. But that's just my guess.

 

[George-ananda]

Who Do You Believe that Jesus Is?

I'll say a highly advanced soul that intended to lead his people to peace and love. The overcomplicated theology that evolved I feel is unfortunate.

 

[Talmai]

Hi,
What was Christianity before becoming the state religion and what was it after? Plus how do we know? - the victors often write "history". Jewish Temple destroyed, pagan temples destroyed post-Constantine, early Christian writings not destroyed/modified? Why does St. Paul hardly mention the events in the earthly life of Jesus yet the Gospels written later, do?

If you want an idea of what Christianity was before it was this "state religion" that you speak of, consider reading the Apostolic Fathers.

I'm sure history is written by the victors. However, the Paraclete is with the Church and He guides her.

Why does it have to be curious that details of the life of Jesus are absent from an epistle such as the one to the Galatians?

 

[Coder]

HI,

If you want an idea of what Christianity was before it was this "state religion" that you speak of, consider reading the Apostolic Fathers.

What writings of them are there from before it was the state religion?

However, the Paraclete is with the Church and He guides her.

"Paraclete" is another name for God. Why not simply say that God guides the Church if that's what you believe?

Why does it have to be curious that details of the life of Jesus are absent from an epistle such as the one to the Galatians?

Wouldn't the writings about the earthly life of someone precede the theology writings about them?

 

[buddhist]

Hi,

The Christian Scriptures record Jesus as asking "Who do you say that I am?" and I am interested in answers to that question and the basis for the answer. The Christian Scriptures indicate that the answer is that faith in Him is a gift from God.

I respect and love much of the wisdom found in both the Hebrew and Christian Scriptures, however, I think that the Christian Scriptures may be pragmatic in many ways and contain external influences. Some go as far as to propose that Jesus is a fictional figure. Do some think that Christianity is possibly a fable by the Roman Empire to have one state religion? I don't go that far but I do see that Christianity seems to incorporate elements from so many religions/beliefs in the Roman Empire at that time. Here is a list of Christian replacements of or commonality with former religions:

Jewish sacrifices -- new Sacrifice
Passover meal -- Christian "breaking of the bread" (Communion)
patron gods in Roman religion -- saints in Roman Church
Jupiter (sky father) in Roman religion -- God the Father
God as Father in Judaism -- God the Father
Jupiter (sky father) -- Jesus ascended into the sky
father-son gods in Roman religion -- Father and Son
Holy Spirit in Judaism -- Unity of the Trinity (Father-Son)
gods who impregnated women in Greek/Roman/pagan religion -- virgin birth
The human soul in Greek philosophy -- The belief in the soul
God breathes life into man in Judaism (Holy Spirit) -- Jesus is man by the Holy Spirit

Also one may wonder if it is coincidental that the Jewish Temple was destroyed by the Romans and Jewish sacrifices ceased. Some of the miracles of Jesus have close parallels in the Hebrew Scriptures. It is interesting that some responded to Jesus that some say He is Elijah. Also, one may wonder if some of the portrayal of Jewish leaders in Christian Scriptures accepted by the Roman Church was not based on Roman opposition to Judaism. At the same time, other Scripture passages seem to appeal to other Jews to accept this new religion (e.g. to form unity in the Empire). If the Roman government had an interest in turning Jewish people against their own leaders and have them accept a new state religion, wouldn't that be a clever way to do it? This raises the question of whether the Romans modified and leveraged Christianity (including Scripture) for their own purposes.

I do not know who Jesus is, except as a figure in books with stories about him.

 

[Talmai]

HI,

What writings of them are there from before it was the state religion?

"Paraclete" is another name for God. Why not simply say that God guides the Church if that's what you believe?

Wouldn't the writings about the earthly life of someone precede the theology writings about them?

Look for the Didache, the letters of Ignatius of Antioch, and the first letter of Clement. Those are some of the writings.

When I say Paraclete I mean the third Person of the Trinity, and He is God just as the Father and the Son are God.

Why should they?

 

[arthra]

For me Jesus was a Manifestation of God...a Pure Mirror that perfectly reflected the attributes of God.. a Mediator between God and humanity and a Martyr that sacrificed Himself for humanity..

"In order to understand the reality of sacrifice let us consider the crucifixion and death of Jesus Christ. It is true that He sacrificed Himself for our sake. What is the meaning of this? When Christ appeared, He knew that He must proclaim Himself in opposition to all the nations and peoples of the earth. He knew that mankind would arise against Him and inflict upon Him all manner of tribulations. There is no doubt that one who put forth such a claim as Christ announced would arouse the hostility of the world and be subjected to personal abuse. He realized that His blood would be shed and His body rent by violence. Notwithstanding His knowledge of what would befall Him, He arose to proclaim His message, suffered all tribulation and hardships from the people and finally offered His life as a sacrifice in order to illumine humanity -- gave His blood in order to guide the world of mankind."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 451

 

[Tumah]

Also one may wonder if it is coincidental that the Jewish Temple was destroyed by the Romans and Jewish sacrifices ceased.

Considering that sacrifices had to be brought in the Temple and the Romans had just destroyed it, I can only wonder why you see a coincidence.

Some of the miracles of Jesus have close parallels in the Hebrew Scriptures.

You mean the NT authors combed through Tanach in order to fabricate a leader based on its stories? Surprise.

 

[Aiviu]

Hi,

Jesus was the same as you are when you follow your reasonable heart without deviation.

He lived in and through his heart to reach where life winds from God's love which brings him to his father. And if his father was God, he is the reasonable heart you have to followed. This is probably what is written.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Rather than us speculating and sharing our personal opinions over who Jesus is, it is much easier to simply read one of the eyewitness accounts of the people who knew Him to see what Jesus said about Himself directly, like the Gospel of John for example.

“I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Or also read 1 Corinthians 15, where Paul speaks of what he received himself, and his own encounter with Jesus when he was a persecutor of the church, the majority view being that this creed he writes dates back even earlier than the Gospels, to no more than five years after Jesus' death. It would have to be one heck of an absurd fabrication for all of the people who knew Jesus so shortly after His death to then make it all up, and then to go out and die for it! There was no gradual evolution or exaggeration of Jesus' life over the decades as some would claim, when faced with this creed that goes back to within 5 years of Jesus' death.

"Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me. For I am the least of the apostles, unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me. Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed."

 

[Aštra’el]

For me it is less about "who" Jesus is and more about what Jesus is. I understand Jesus' archetype as the embodiment of unconditional love, compassion, mercy, forgiveness, kindness, humility, gratitude, repentence, redemption, deliverance, salvation, etc. When one embraces these attributes, these sides of human Nature, and greatly reflect them in one's Weltanschauung, one is embracing "Jesus", even if one does not call it that.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Jesus is a man, just like the rest of us. I wasn't raised religious. If I haven't heard of Christianity and any other religion and someone told me there is a guy name Jesus, I'd probably think-he is an actual guy, a male, and a person. An actual human. That's how I was raised. People are people. So, I don't have trinitarian views.

Jesus is a human. We all have unique characteristics. Some people say they have talked to god directly on RF. Some say they experienced god directly on RF. Others know the creator by different names. Others don't even believe in a creator and they believe in god. Jesus had his believe, so did the apostles, and so did the jews (and so forth).

Everyone is trying to describe the nature of the universe, their place in it, their relationship to the environment, to others, and to self. It's spiritual growth.

Jesus isn't my friend. He isn't a family member. He is a person in humanity and land has a spirit just like everyone else. So, how can he be any more than that? Really.

If I read the Bible without hearing people's claims that it's true, it's just a book. I'd have no other reason to believe otherwise. It doesn't give spiritual knowledge that jumps up at me. Everything we read about the Bible is shaped by the interpretations of other people-this includes Moses, Joseph, John, Peter, and Jesus.

If someone can tell me who jesus is a part from scripture, then that would be something I'd like to know more about. What is his personality? How does he talk to christians? What is his message? What is he sending you that you do not need the bible to understand and receive?

Things like that. I've never had Jesus did that. I experienced him through the Eucharist but he didn't speak to me like the spirits do. So, I can't put jesus anywhere on a pedestal. He's a regular Joe Smoe just like us.

Hi,

The Christian Scriptures record Jesus as asking "Who do you say that I am?" and I am interested in answers to that question and the basis for the answer. The Christian Scriptures indicate that the answer is that faith in Him is a gift from God.

I respect and love much of the wisdom found in both the Hebrew and Christian Scriptures, however, I think that the Christian Scriptures may be pragmatic in many ways and contain external influences. Some go as far as to propose that Jesus is a fictional figure. Do some think that Christianity is possibly a fable by the Roman Empire to have one state religion? I don't go that far but I do see that Christianity seems to incorporate elements from so many religions/beliefs in the Roman Empire at that time. Here is a list of Christian replacements of or commonality with former religions:

Jewish sacrifices -- new Sacrifice
Passover meal -- Christian "breaking of the bread" (Communion)
patron gods in Roman religion -- saints in Roman Church
Jupiter (sky father) in Roman religion -- God the Father
God as Father in Judaism -- God the Father
Jupiter (sky father) -- Jesus ascended into the sky
father-son gods in Roman religion -- Father and Son
Holy Spirit in Judaism -- Unity of the Trinity (Father-Son)
gods who impregnated women in Greek/Roman/pagan religion -- virgin birth
The human soul in Greek philosophy -- The belief in the soul
God breathes life into man in Judaism (Holy Spirit) -- Jesus is man by the Holy Spirit

Also one may wonder if it is coincidental that the Jewish Temple was destroyed by the Romans and Jewish sacrifices ceased. Some of the miracles of Jesus have close parallels in the Hebrew Scriptures. It is interesting that some responded to Jesus that some say He is Elijah. Also, one may wonder if some of the portrayal of Jewish leaders in Christian Scriptures accepted by the Roman Church was not based on Roman opposition to Judaism. At the same time, other Scripture passages seem to appeal to other Jews to accept this new religion (e.g. to form unity in the Empire). If the Roman government had an interest in turning Jewish people against their own leaders and have them accept a new state religion, wouldn't that be a clever way to do it? This raises the question of whether the Romans modified and leveraged Christianity (including Scripture) for their own purposes.

 

[Limo]

El-Mesiah is a prophet like all previous Israelis prophets.
He lived as per Mosa law, circumcised, prayed in Mountain Temple, sacrificed,,,,
His mission is to get Israelis back to genuine Mosa Law (lost sheep).
He's human like you, me, and all of us. He prayed to the Almighy, put his head on earth, cried, asked for help.

He had something special, He was born from a woman without a man. Almighty wanted to give a live example of creation. As Adam was created with neither father nor mother. Eve was created from a father (Adam) without mother. The complete of the example is to create someone from mother without father (El-MEssiah)

He was saved from crucifixion and raised alive to heaven.

After a while, some people (Paul) decided to take these teaching to Gentiles but faced a problem. Gentiles can't bear Mosa's Law.
Then the solution is to put off Mosa's Law from Gentile.
They need to attract more people to accept El-messiah
More tolerance is needed, get state of the art of known pagan idols attributes at that time, sacrificial God Son, Trinity, crucifixion, resurrection, turn water to wine, Alpha an Omega,,,, and added to El-Messiah's attributes. Then it's turned to Jesus-Christ character which is totally different from Israilis El-Messiah.
Christmas day is a vague example of these methodology.
It was a birth day of many pagan idols related to winter solstice night when the new Sun is born. Research tell us that it was a birth date for more than 15 idol pagan gods.

During this journey, scriptures need to be changed to comply with these philosophical changed.
Some people tried to rectify like Arius, by the way the known Christian world was fully Unitarian for around 30-40 years.
The changes didn't stop till date.