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Who Claims Authority?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by cardero, May 24, 2006.

  1. FFH

    FFH Veteran Member

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  2. Evandr2

    Evandr2 Member

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    Sojourner - Cardero

    I believe that we have all made our positions clear.

    What I believe will effect only me and those who I can influence. The same goes for you.

    It has been a good conversation and I thank you for that.

    For me the bottom line is this. God exists, He wants us to know his will and He has made it available to all. If you simply believe that He has spoken to you by the Holy Ghost than you would be wise to question that belief. If you know that knowledge has been imparted to you then you have no need to fear.

    It is up to us all as individuals to be sure of the wisdom in we believe. We must be sure that pride is not the foundation of it. Becoming as a little child before our maker and allowing ourselves to be taught without predigest is imperative.

    God does not judge on a curve. We will all be held individually to the standards He has set. Keep in mind that from whom much has been given, much is expected. May the Lord God bless us with success in our individual persuit of truth and give to us the strength and courage to act upon it when we find it.


    Vandr
     
  3. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    When it comes down to it, the authority to act on God's behalf comes from Christ. Since we are all part of the Body of Christ, we all have authority to act on God's behalf. some of us feel, however, that having some people set aside to administer sacraments, to teach, to proclaim the gospel, and other specialized tasks, is preferable. but ultimately, the authority is Christ's and belongs, by extension, to all of us.
     
  4. Evandr2

    Evandr2 Member

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    That stance promotes the docterin of confusion and disorder. God is not the author of any such confusion because order is the first great principle of creation.

    Vandr
     
  5. lunamoth

    lunamoth Will to love

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    Booko is not here to post this weekend, even though she was participating in this thread before she left. And it is too bad because what I am curious to know, from anyone who believes that the Catholic Church has lost Her authority, is on what grounds do you then reject the Baha'i Faith? The Baha'i Faith claims to be more than just a restoration, but following the authority of Christ returned. Why don't you accept this authority?
     
  6. FFH

    FFH Veteran Member

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  7. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    I don't believe it does -- not if we learn to celebrate the differences, instead of attempting to stomp them out. The human will is a very powerful thing. If exclusive practices prevail on all sides, then "Satan gets his way." -- the division of the Body of Christ. You believe you have authority and I don't -- I believe I have authority and you don't. We end up fighting. No one will ever convince the other. However, if we all choose to get along, "sharing the wealth of Christ" with all instead of hording it for ourselves, we will all be the richer. Don't we all believe in the Lordship of Christ, in saving grace, and in the cross? Don't we believe in the fellowship of believers? Those are the essentials. So what if we differ in non-essentials? That just makes a larger mural, reflecting a greater image of Christ in the world. Each little image works in conjunction to manifest the greater whole.
     
  8. cardero

    cardero Citizen Mod

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    After reading the links provided by FFH on Authority To Baptize it made me wonder about other ceremonies where God’s authority would be required.

    For the simplicity of this discussion I will just focus on the marriage ceremony.

    Now I understand and recognize that this performance actually appeases both Church and State and that both these organizations may not agree on all aspects of each other’s Law. I also understand that there are many people who are given authority to marry. Priests, rabbis, elders, ministers, justices of the Peace, captains of boats (these also include women who are allowed the permission to their respected ministry and priesthood). I also understand that the wording of these ceremonies may differ from church and circumstance but the main point seems to be that most of these people performing the service are speaking for God and not about Him. My questions are as follows:

    1) Does authority extend to all these individuals?

    2) Does a couple who want their marriage recognized by God have to be married by an organization that claims authority?

    3) Does God recognize marriages that are not performed in authority?

    4) If only one organization can claim authority from God does that mean every other marriage is invalid?

    5) How does this authority extend to other religious ceremonies (funerals, baptisms, bar mitzvahs, confessionals, communions, etc) do they also become invalid if not performed by a religion in authority?
     
  9. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    While YOUR faith might be an excuse, mine is precious and based on reality. It's how I use the brakes on my car or flip a light switch. Without faith, you become a quivering glob of jello.
     
  10. cardero

    cardero Citizen Mod

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    :eek: Whoa, whoa wait, I didn't say it, blame GOD, I don't even utilize faith.

    Now, onto the brakes in your car. The fact remains that they are either going to work or they are not. Applying faith is not going to make you brake any harder, quicker or better. If you really want to make sure that your brakes are performing in top condition, you will have to make sure that you keep up with their maintainance, faith will not do that for you. Take your car to an authorative mechanic, not a faithful one.
     
  11. gnomon

    gnomon Well-Known Member

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    Watch me wiggle,
    See me jiggle.
     
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  12. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    I'm going to preface this by saying that Christ gave authority to the twelve that what they bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and vice versa.


    For a marriage in Christ? No. In fact, the authority doesn't even extend to everybody in the Church.

    I believe so. But not only that, but by one who actually has the authority, not just claim it.


    Ummm... He won't honor them after death. They are sealed on the earth, but they had no authority to seal in heaven.

    Yes.

    Yep.
     
  13. cardero

    cardero Citizen Mod

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    Thanks for your responses.

    Last question if I may:

    If the LDS claim authority from GOD and a couple wanted to be married from a religion in authority, could any couple get married in the temple if certain conditions were met or would they have to be qualified members of the organization?
     
  14. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    In order for somebody to be married in the temple they have to be "worthy" LDS members. Worthy members are those who follow the commandments, like the law of chastity and the law of tithing.
     
  15. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    You either "believe" they are going to work (faith) and use them or just give up (no faith) and hit the other car.

    They can not work if you don't have the faith to use them. Of course, you probably would not have had the faith to start the car either! :D
     
  16. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Of course, you have faith that someone you have never seen would take a moment to read your post. You only THINK you're jiggling.
     
  17. kassi

    kassi Member

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  18. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Woot! Amen Kassi, Amen! Frubles on your head!
     
  19. kassi

    kassi Member

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    Thanks for the Amen.
     
  20. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    No. IT's against the law of God to do things in God's name that require propher authority without that authority.

    No you can't. He might reveal to me that I'm not supposed to marry so-and-so, or that I should go to Gonzaga, but that doesn't mean nobody should marry so-and-so, or that everybody should go to Gonzaga. We are individuals, and God treats us as such.

    Yeah, give a reason. That's not the same as "Be prepared to do things in God's name that require authority without his authority."

    Yeah, I know. I never said we shouldn't share the gospel or anything. There's a difference between speaking for god and simply sharing the Gospel.
     
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