Who are you to question God? really...

[Revoltingest]

I believe every man knows there is a God, whether you choose to acknowledge his existance or not, you do know.

Nope, I don't believe there is a god. I never have.

maybe You don't know him well, but you do know he exists . I do not care to argue your denials....

I don't have any denials. I just see no reason to believe in such things.

I care to encourage you all to have some respect, show some submissiveness strikes me as wrong, did you create yourself? do you have all the answers really?

I don't need to have all the answers.
But I don't see believers as having the answers either.
Moreover, they embrace many wrong answers

Look I respect evryone will have his own mind, follow his own desires, what I cannot respect is disrespect. I have seen enough, I had enough.

This is a rough place at times, & we all see our share of abuse from bad examples of other faiths.
Don't let it get to you. I know that's easier said than done, but there are ways to cope. You can find them.

 

[Lady B]

Nope, I don't believe there is a god. I never have.

I don't have any denials. I just see no reason to believe in such things.

I don't need to have all the answers.
But I don't see believers as having the answers either.
Moreover, they embrace many wrong answers

This is a rough place at times, & we all see our share of abuse from bad examples of other faiths.
Don't let it get to you. I know that's easier said than done, but there are ways to cope. You can find them.

Thanks revoltingest, I know, I know....

 

[Revoltingest]

Thanks revoltingest, I know, I know....

And you have a fine avatar!

 

[9Westy9]

No, I do not understand it at all, I will never try to understand your analogy either, to me putting a God with evil men is rediculous at best.

1 God could stop all evil yet does not
2 God even admits that he creates evil/ disasters (Isaiah 45:7)
3 He created hell for anyone who doesn't accept him (Accepted by a lot of Christians)
4 He created crazy laws with insanely over the top punishments (Exodus 21:17, Leviticus 20:9, Exodus 22:20 etc.)

It's no wonder that some people call God evil etc.

 

[FearGod]

You know I just have to wonder after seeing countless threads, one after another questioning God, what would you have done different? Seriously, you who constantly condemn God's judgments, who are you really? Are you so big you can go against God himself? If you stood in his presence today would you ask him these very questions you post here?

Let me ask you,have you ever been to court? And had a judge before you? if not just imagine... Sure your brave at first and have your attorney beside you, speaking boldly on your behalf and you have all hope he will do what you have paid him to do...but What happens when it is left to the judge? Final day of sentencing, do you scream out what an unfair system we have? Do you mock the judge? Tell him he is nothing? And has no power over you? Or do you my dear friend,humbly go before him with fear and trembling and beg for his mercy..... Have you ever felt that trembling fear? Like, whoa, he could do anything to me and I have no defense really against him?

Have you ever been in front of your president? Or leader? All these things you scream about in facebook or social forums, would you really say in front of a powerful being? Would you say the same things you say in your mothers basement in your underwear,hiding behind a screen and keyboard to an authoritative figure? Do you ever feel underdressed in front of respected persons or maybe that your home isn't clean enough for guests? Have you ever even imagined yourself dumbstruck, in awe? In perfect submission ? Knowing your life depends on what you say right now?

You all amaze me with your fearlessness, your bravery, How easy it is for you to question God, how easy it is for you to say horrid things against his character, to question his judgment, to deem him unfit, to call him narcissistic, to say he is evil to send anyone to hell, to say he designed men to fail and so it is his fault we do so. Who are you speaking this to ? To whom are you so boldly questioning? Who are you so arrogant towards? Against who? Me? Religious entities? Fellow Rf posters? door to door evangelists? Maybe even world wide web users? so brave you are....

I will ask you, what gives you this boldness? Who is behind you now? Who has your back? Fellow atheists? agnostics? Science? your meditations? What are you trusting in really? I will tell you, your trusting in men, your trusting in created minds and not the very creator! the one you will one day stand before and your tongue will not even wag, your voice will be gone, you who have made your own God or seen yourselves as your own God, and hey, as Gods tell me what did you create? while you have been in control of your own destiny, what have you really found? how have you furthered your own species? I tell you one day you will see all your knowledge, your wisdom and your imaginings as dust. DUST ! Nothing... All your science and your ideas and your questions and your denials are nothing, you will be speechless and you will have no representative beside you, none will speak for you, or give your qualifications, none will submit your great philosophical resume..You will answer to one God, one Holy God , one creator, one judge, He will ask of you...
" what did you do with this life I gave you?"
don't even think what you will say, you will get no say, you will get no argument, there is no debate my friend....

I have heard many rebuttals already, trust me what you can say is not new to me, nor to God.Here they are....If you are wrong, so what..You were deceived...If You are wrong well it is not your fault, God wasn't clear.....If You are wrong well so how can God punish what he designed from the beginning? so what? You die and cease to exist, from dust you came to dust you go.there is nothing beyond so why should you care..you Will wish it so, but it is not the truth, death is not your end, you will face that Holy God whether you choose in this life to acknowledge him or not, you will face him and you will bow before him and you will not speak a word........

Do I wish this for you? Do I wish one day you will see what we have told you and you will be sorry and we will gloat? and say "neener neener,I told ya so"? No my friend I do not wish the wrath of God on anyone, I beg you to show respect, I beg you to question rightously, I beg you to stop this slander and seek your answers meekly, as If you need answers and not as you do now, allready knowing all. I wish you would stop questioning God as if he is your mailman, as if he is your buddy who let you down as if he was the waitress who got your order wrong....

Think about it my friend, who are you exactly? How is it that you can be so arrogant? So self worthy to say this God of Abraham is so unfair, so unjust, so evil minded? I fear for your attempt at bravery within your peers, stand alone and put yourself standing before this God you deny you know, Yes you know him, you deceive yourself well enough to say you don't know him, but He has written himself on every heart, most of you have studied his word to use it against his own...You know him....

a very good post from a great Lady B.

You had tried your best to help and i understand your post as pointing to god as the creator for all of us regardless of our doctrines.

Don't think that you were defeated just because your advice were rejected.


Behold, the sinners were laughing at the believers, (83:29)

But on the Day [of Judgment], they who had attained to faith will [be able to] laugh at the [erstwhile] deniers of the truth: (83:34)

 

[Infinitum]

Even though Mohammad is not God, nor does he try to be,I do give respect to him as a Islamic leader, I would never call him a blank blank .

I might be odd, but I respect the respect someone has for something, while claiming as my right to not have respect for ideas or practices I view as false and harmful.

Religions based on the Bible are unfortunate in the way that their scriptures contain a lot that's really hard for modern people to accept: condoning violence, for example. They might not be part of your image of God, but it's there and people must have the right to discuss those issues with the right words. Being able to do this without offending anyone is an art that not many will master, especially when strong feelings are flung on both sides of the fence.

(Sidenote: Many threads seem to start by addressing a certain type of believers. By that I mean the fundamentalist, noisy ones that cause this irritation in people and try to press their beliefs on others. You can often see how this "image of a believer" haunts between the lines in many posts. I think this trend of extremist voices getting heard is harming moderate believers more than anyone else, since it increases the divide between atheists and believers in general.)

 

[savagewind]

God cannot stop all evil. If God stopped all evil people would disappear. OK God CAN stop all evil but there would would be no more souls left over. Just grass and trees.

 

[savagewind]

1 God could stop all evil yet does not
2 God even admits that he creates evil/ disasters (Isaiah 45:7)
3 He created hell for anyone who doesn't accept him (Accepted by a lot of Christians)
4 He created crazy laws with insanely over the top punishments (Exodus 21:17, Leviticus 20:9, Exodus 22:20 etc.)

It's no wonder that some people call God evil etc.

I was replying to this.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

God cannot stop all evil. If God stopped all evil people would disappear. OK God CAN stop all evil but there would would be no more souls left over. Just grass and trees.

Why would that be so? Couldn't God just NOT do that? Are you saying that it is impossible for God to create a world that is both without evil and also including people? Why is that an impossibility for a supposedly all-powerful, all-knowing being?

 

[no-body]

This

Care to discuss why you don't agree? You guys have co-opted the secular tactic of pointing out a nonsensical argument, but you actually have to point out why it is nonsensical. You just can't just say "you aren't operating within logic anymore, so I'm walking away" and that's the way it is.

Sorry but if you get to include us in your religion/beliefs, similarly we get to include you in our parameters of belief and logic even if they have no traditional or cultural basis.

 

[Kerr]

That is exactly what I have said, not tried to say. I took great care to say this is a matter of respect for A God, his God our God any God. A being to respect, a higher authority, something above you and me, our creator however you view him, I did use Abrahamic God because that is where I see the disrespect whether it is at mine, Islams, or Jew's. I tried to clarify when my post was taken way off course and bring it back to respect, but I have been beaten down once again for daring to touch on a problem that does exist here.

I apologize if I missunderstood your post. Thought you meant something else. Personally, while I am not worried about being respectful to God (since I dont believe in him) I do think its good to be respectful to peoples beliefs.

 

[Lady B]

Care to discuss why you don't agree? You guys have co-opted the secular tactic of pointing out a nonsensical argument, but you actually have to point out why it is nonsensical. You just can't just say "you aren't operating within logic anymore, so I'm walking away" and that's the way it is.

Sorry but if you get to include us in your religion/beliefs, similarly we get to include you in our parameters of belief and logic even if they have no traditional or cultural basis.

Your right, I recant my resignation, If Egypts prosecuter general can do it then I can also...ok maybe not funny ,anyways, I am more than willing to discuss your disbelief or your problems with scripture, I will not however discuss or respond to disrespectful name calling To My God or any other God of which you gave example of (evil monster) and the reason for this post entirely. Why do you need to do that? what is your motive exactly ? If you have issues fine, lay them out, perhaps you won't get your answers or perhaps you will, but how can anyone debate or discuss such blasphemy really ?

To say that God is evil, is to say you know more than him, again quiet arrogant, You have asked me why I don't prove my premise That God deserves respect, well how can I prove this without using scripture to which you may reply its goat herders philosophy? Noone can disprove your claims without at least a tiny belief in something solid, something to start from, an absolute. You have no absolute, do you? So If we cannot prove our sides why can't we respect each other and use some less abusive terms when relating to a deity many of us do love and worship. Why is that just not reasonable seriously.

 

[Falvlun]

That is exactly what I have said, not tried to say. I took great care to say this is a matter of respect for A God, his God our God any God. A being to respect, a higher authority, something above you and me, our creator however you view him, I did use Abrahamic God because that is where I see the disrespect whether it is at mine, Islams, or Jew's. I tried to clarify when my post was taken way off course and bring it back to respect, but I have been beaten down once again for daring to touch on a problem that does exist here.

You say it is about respect for God, but your posts truly do indicate something else. You appear to desire not just respect for God, but respect specifically for your beliefs about God. Furthermore, you appear to find simple disagreement or non-belief to be equivalent to lack of respect. Do you see how these are two different things?

I find it telling that you highlighted only those two posts, the ones that most fit your preconceived notions, out of all the posts in this thread. Many posters here indicated a desire to have a real discussion with you about this, but you ignored most of the posts or points. You keep reiterating your own position, but fail to actually answer or address what we are asking you, or explaining about ourselves. It might help if you looked beyond your own expectations, and quit lumping everyone who doesn't agree with you in the same bowl.

 

[no-body]

Your right, I recant my resignation, If Egypts prosecuter general can do it then I can also...ok maybe not funny ,anyways, I am more than willing to discuss your disbelief or your problems with scripture, I will not however discuss or respond to disrespectful name calling To My God or any other God of which you gave example of (evil monster) and the reason for this post entirely. Why do you need to do that? what is your motive exactly ? If you have issues fine, lay them out, perhaps you won't get your answers or perhaps you will, but how can anyone debate or discuss such blasphemy really ?

To say that God is evil, is to say you know more than him, again quiet arrogant, You have asked me why I don't prove my premise That God deserves respect, well how can I prove this without using scripture to which you may reply its goat herders philosophy? Noone can disprove your claims without at least a tiny belief in something solid, something to start from, an absolute. You have no absolute, do you? So If we cannot prove our sides why can't we respect each other and use some less abusive terms when relating to a deity many of us do love and worship. Why is that just not reasonable seriously.

Your interpretation of scripture and God is anathema to my way of life. Why should I respect you if you don't respect me and mine? Because you have a lot of people and years under your belt and I don't?

 

[McBell]

This

This

If you cannot take that which you dish out, then I would think you should stop dishing it out...

 

[Lady B]

You say it is about respect for God, but your posts truly do indicate something else. You appear to desire not just respect for God, but respect specifically for your beliefs about God. Furthermore, you appear to find simple disagreement or non-belief to be equivalent to lack of respect. Do you see how these are two different things?

I find it telling that you highlighted only those two posts, the ones that most fit your preconceived notions, out of all the posts in this thread. Many posters here indicated a desire to have a real discussion with you about this, but you ignored most of the posts or points. You keep reiterating your own position, but fail to actually answer or address what we are asking you, or explaining about ourselves. It might help if you looked beyond your own expectations, and quit lumping everyone who doesn't agree with you in the same bowl.

I highlighted those two posts because they are using the disrespect I am talking about, "little punk","evil monster", what is that? why is that even nessasary? and furthermore, I am really trying to go back through the posts and have discussion, I just keep getting distracted, sorry. I have seen some really good arguments,I am not ignoring them I swear, I will try to put some armor on and not be so sensative and defeated, but I wish really you get my point and curb the distasteful remarks against God in the meantime...

 

[no-body]

If you insist on using the classical Christian argument of original sin and God paying the sin and all that rubbish then I will call God an evil monster. It is disrespectful to me that I am portrayed as a pawn in God's game. You just take offense because you have sided with the biggest and the strongest and that is what is expected of you.

 

[Lady B]

If you insist on using the classical Christian argument of original sin and God paying the sin and all that rubbish then I will call God an evil monster. It is disrespectful to me that I am portrayed as a pawn in God's game. You just take offense because you have sided with the biggest and the strongest and that is what is expected of you.

Ok fair enough, That at least is a respectful argument and I thank you But no I was not using a classical Christian argument or asking you to worship the Christian God, was I?

 

[Lady B]

If you cannot take that which you dish out, then I would think you should stop dishing it out...

Really? I resorted to name calling a God? or somone that you love and give honor too? Is that what you get from my thread?

 

[Falvlun]

I highlighted those two posts because they are using the disrespect I am talking about, "little punk","evil monster", what is that? why is that even nessasary?

A lot of that is just over-the-top bravado and shock-and-awe.

But they do have a serious criticism at root. Would you find a reasoned, civilized discussion about the alleged short-comings of God to be disrespectful?

For example, I have recently posted here that I find the concept of original sin to be a rather unfair and irrational plan. I have various reasons for believing so. Such a plan, of course, reflects upon the planner. Do you consider that disrespectful?

and furthermore, I am really trying to go back through the posts and have discussion, I just keep getting distracted, sorry. I have seen some really good arguments,I am not ignoring them I swear, I will try to put some armor on and not be so sensative and defeated, but I wish really you get my point and curb the distasteful remarks against God in the meantime...

It is a bit of a slog, I'll give you that. You got swamped.

I think the issue is that what you consider "distasteful remarks" is not really well defined. Is it simply calling God names? Or, as above, making arguments that criticize God? Is it saying that I personally find certain of your beliefs abhorrent? Is it me simply saying that I don't believe that God exists?

And one last point: I agree that we should be respectful of each other. And I agree that to some extent we shoud be respectful of each other's beliefs. But I do not believe that beliefs should be immune from criticism in the name of respect.