White Supremacy and Christianity

[Shadow Wolf]

That's asinine. Murder is not up for debate.

Except, to most societies and civilizations--probably all of them--it has been up for debate.

 

[columbus]

It's easy, if they are murdering people, or discriminating they are doing it wrong.

Who died and made you God?

I've read the OT. Murdering and discriminating was de rigeur back when Scriptural morality was being invented. You might prefer your modern secular ethics, and I am glad you do.
But murdering and discriminating is not a problem for Bible god.

I know morally bankrupt people can't tell the difference. But hey nobody is perfect.

That's probably why the USA manages to be both overwhelmingly Christian and also what it is.
Tom

 

[Enoch07]

Except, to most societies and civilizations--probably all of them--it has been up for debate.

Does not change that it's asinine.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Does not change that it's asinine.

You have not demonstrated why murder is wrong, nor have you demonstrated why my position is asinine. All you offer is "just because," and that isn't a reason or excuse. "Just because" is how things have always been done, and left unexamined and unquestioned, "just because" that's the way it is. We do things like end slavery and create domestic rape laws when we move beyond "just because," because we realize that "just because" it's the way we perceive something doesn't mean it's necessarily right, regardless of what has always been said and done before.

 

[Enoch07]

You have not demonstrated why murder is wrong, nor have you demonstrated why my position is asinine. All you offer is "just because," and that isn't a reason or excuse. "Just because" is how things have always been done, and left unexamined and unquestioned, "just because" that's the way it is. We do things like end slavery and create domestic rape laws when we move beyond "just because," because we realize that "just because" it's the way we perceive something doesn't mean it's necessarily right, regardless of what has always been said and done before.

I am not debating on why murder is wrong. Your position is asinine because you think it can be debated.

So your strawman is wasted.

You didn't end slavery in the U.S. That was the Christians. just fyi

 

[Sleeppy]

1. That is for Jewish people at a certain time of history. It doesn't apply today.

Christians started the abolitionist movement in the U.S. because they believed slavery is wrong.

2. See #1.

3. See #1.

4. Your reaching here to say the least and grossly misunderstand nationalism and tribalism.

5. I am, which is why I am able to point out your deception.

Nice. Baseless apologist propaganda.

If I kill someone today, and offer your exact argument tomorrow, does that negate what happens today?

So tell me,

1) Why include slavery at all? -- Norm is not an excuse.

2) Why destroy an entire population, including women, children, and infants? -- Speculation is not proof of guilt.

3) Why was/is bigotry still acceptable? -- Relegating it to past norm, again is not an excuse.

4) I can provide dictionary definitions, if you're uncertain.

5) If your mind permits.

 

[Baroodi]

Unfortunately people understand the merit given by God to Jews wrongly. God give no merit to a person because of his color or race. As He says in Quran( verily those who are hounorable among you are those who are righteous). The merit to the Jews was because Allah has chosen many prophets from them. We believe God(Allah) have sent thousands of prophets and messengers, but the high calibre messengers are Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Mohammed peace be upon them all

 

[Enoch07]

If I kill someone today, and offer your exact argument tomorrow, does that negate what happens today?

If you kill someone today you are responsible for it still tomorrow.

Or would you blame another murderer from 100+ years ago because that what you are doing here.

1) Why include slavery at all? -- Norm is not an excuse.

Because it's a part of their history. Should they delete it or try to hide it?

2) Why destroy an entire population, including women, children, and infants? -- Speculation is not proof of guilt.

Because the Midianites were trying to kill the Jews. The Midianites were sending diseased people to Israel to try and wipe them out. That's a good reason to defend yourself, if I ever heard one. And by the way I am gonna call strawman because, Moses did not kill them all, he spared the women, and children/infants. Also it's hardly racism to counter the other point, as Moses was married to a Midianite. Racist don't marry the ethnicity they hate.

3) Why was/is bigotry still acceptable? -- Relegating it to past norm, again is not an excuse.

Bigotry as most people define it is not acceptable in today's world. Though there are plenty of people who still do it. The most common nowadays is the "soft bigotry of low expectations". As it is socially acceptable bigotry.

No need to provide definitions. You claiming Jesus is a tribalist/nationalist is proof enough you don't know the definition.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You didn't end slavery in the U.S. That was the Christians

The Klan blog I linked earlier, the stuff that pastor was talking about was pretty much the same thing as it was with slavery. Just minus the slavery part. Slavery is permitted, condoned, allowed, and reaffirmed all throughout the Bible, OT and NT. The Klan didn't just make it up.

 

[Sleeppy]

If you kill someone today you are responsible for it still tomorrow.

Or would you blame another murderer from 100+ years ago because that what you are doing here.



Because it's a part of their history. Should they delete it or try to hide it?



Because the Midianites were trying to kill the Jews. The Midianites were sending diseased people to Israel to try and wipe them out. That's a good reason to defend yourself, if I ever heard one. And by the way I am gonna call strawman because, Moses did not kill them all, he spared the women, and children/infants. Also it's hardly racism to counter the other point, as Moses was married to a Midianite. Racist don't marry the ethnicity they hate.



Bigotry as most people define it is not acceptable in today's world. Though there are plenty of people who still do it. The most common nowadays is the "soft bigotry of low expectations". As it is socially acceptable bigotry.

No need to provide definitions. You claiming Jesus is a tribalist/nationalist is proof enough you don't know the definition.

So we come full circe;

1) You admit that Jews (and Christians) practiced and legalized slavery.

2) You admit that ethnic cleansing, genocide was practiced and legalized. (Moses spared only the virginal women and infants.)

3) You justify bigotry with said propaganda.

4) Matthew 15:24, John 4:22

FYI, Judah is a tribe. Israel is a nation.

5) None of these points were refuted. As I said, all were/are acceptable; you've only offered incomplete apologist explanations.

 

[Enoch07]

The Klan blog I linked earlier, the stuff that pastor was talking about was pretty much the same thing as it was with slavery. Just minus the slavery part. Slavery is permitted, condoned, allowed, and reaffirmed all throughout the Bible, OT and NT. The Klan didn't just make it up.

Yes they did! LoLz

Would you care to quote Jesus telling us to hang the non-whites?

How about Jesus sermon on how it's a sin to marry non-whites?

You won't find it.

They took scripture and twist the words to suit their own purposes. Plain and simple.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

They took scripture and twist the words to suit their own purposes. Plain and simple.

That's what every single Christian group--ever--has done. All Christians would still be Catholic had it not happened the first time. It's also why there are and have been so many different ones.

 

[Enoch07]

1) You admit that Jews (and Christians) practiced and legalized slavery.

Nobody is denying that. Everyone owned slaves at one point in time. Pagans slave owners, Native Africans slavers/slave owners of their own people. Turks, Persians, Arabs everyone participated in slavery at some point in their history. So claiming just one people participated in slavery is asinine.

Christians started the abolitionist movement in the U.S in the 17th century, so at least we actively made a change and died in a bloody war to rectify it.

2) You admit that ethnic cleansing, genocide was practiced and legalized. (Moses spared only the virginal women and infants.)

Strawman again.

Thats war, not ethnic cleansing. When someone is actively trying to kill you, you are allowed to defend yourself. Moses spared the virgins because of how the disease that was spread. Only virgins were deemed safe from infection.

3) You justify bigotry with said propaganda.

Strawman again. I didn't justify anything.

FYI, Judah is a tribe. Israel is a nation.

Jesus didn't pull the nation together did he? He also didn't pull the tribes together either did he? So how is He a tribalist/nationalist again?

5) None of these points were refuted. As I said, all were/are acceptable; you've only offered incomplete apologist explanations.

Consider them refuted. Your misrepresentations of the Bible are the issue here. Not what's written in it.

 

[Enoch07]

That's what every single Christian group--ever--has done. All Christians would still be Catholic had it not happened the first time. It's also why there are and have been so many different ones.

Yeah it's human nature, atheist do it as well, and come up with some crazy interpretations of their own. There is plenty of proof on RF of that.

 

[Sleeppy]

Nobody is denying that. Everyone owned slaves at one point in time. Pagans slave owners, Native Africans slavers/slave owners of their own people. Turks, Persians, Arabs everyone participated in slavery at some point in their history. So claiming just one people participated in slavery is asinine.

Christians started the abolitionist movement in the U.S in the 17th century, so at least we actively made a change and died in a bloody war to rectify it.



Strawman again.

Thats war, not ethnic cleansing. When someone is actively trying to kill you, you are allowed to defend yourself. Moses spared the virgins because of how the disease that was spread. Only virgins were deemed safe from infection.



Strawman again. I didn't justify anything.



Jesus didn't pull the nation together did he? He also didn't pull the tribes together either did he? So how is He a tribalist/nationalist again?



Consider them refuted. Your misrepresentations of the Bible are the issue here. Not what's written in it.

Again, the question is not why, but if. But, good job. Thank you for admitting to my original points.

 

[Enoch07]

Again, the question is not why, but if. But, good job. Thank you for admitting to my original points.

Wow your just going to lie like that eh?

 

[Grandliseur]

@Grandliseur your post #7 was the most ignorant thing I've read this morning off of work. So can you demonstrate as FACT that prior to your Biblical quote that other members are simply meant to be dominated? This in fact is a white supremacist line of thinking...I'm really curious if you can provide scientific evidence (scientific considering that scientist don't use sociological models for evolution and behavior in this context).

Nothing I said demonstrated any reason to abuse other people or races. So, instead of coming down on me in general, what specifically did you not agree with?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yeah it's human nature, atheist do it as well, and come up with some crazy interpretations of their own. There is plenty of proof on RF of that.

So then how do we know who's interpretation is correct?

 

[Sleeppy]

Wow your just going to lie like that eh?

OK. Let's find out who is actually lying here:

1) "Nobody is denying that. Everyone owned slaves at one point in time."

2) "Thats war, not ethnic cleansing. When someone is actively trying to kill you, you are allowed to defend yourself. Moses spared the virgins because of how the disease that was spread. Only virgins were deemed safe from infection."

-- Referring to virginal infants. Sheer idiocy. Again, these were civilians.

3) You provided justification for killing civilians and infants. False?

4) You need those definitions.

 

[Enoch07]

So then how do we know who's interpretation is correct?

Try the ones that do not want to harm you. That's a great start.