Which would be prefferable, spiritual tyranny or materialistic tyranny?

[amorphous_constellation]

I'd posit that it would be pretty much a draw actually. With both, the society would have to follow rules that are imposed onto reality. Spiritually, the things would be hidden, materialistically the rules are imposed on things that are seen. Two ends of a spectrum that would both be unpalatable.

 

[LuisDantas]

Can you give me some idea of what those tyrannies would be like?

As in, what sort of enforcement mechanism they use?

Actually, can you elaborate on what those tyrannies are in the first place? The OP is rather enigmatic.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Can you give me some idea of what those tyrannies would be like?

Spiritual tyranny would probably involve enforced religious protocols, while materialistic tyranny would put physical objects above humans in terms of worth.

As in, what sort of enforcement mechanism they use?

Probably governmental, or if not that, derived from organizations which serve as locus points for either the materialistic or spiritual sort of deification.

Actually, can you elaborate on what those tyrannies are in the first place? The OP is rather enigmatic.

I guess it's kind of amorphous, but it shouldn't be too hard if one uses their imagination a little bit.

 

[LuisDantas]

Spiritual tyranny would probably involve enforced religious protocols,

Oh, that is certainly a very bad thing. I am give testimony to that.

while materialistic tyranny would put physical objects above humans in terms of worth.

It sounds more like mysery than tyranny to me, and tends to be far less of a problem in reality, for reasons that should be fairly self-evident.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

O
It sounds more like mysery than tyranny to me, and tends to be far less of a problem in reality, for reasons that should be fairly self-evident.

Well, how would define a term like 'materialistic tyranny,' or do you think such a concept can exist? And isn't misery the same as tyranny?

 

[LuisDantas]

Well, how would define a term like 'materialistic tyranny,' or do you think such a concept can exist? And isn't misery the same as tyranny?

Tyranny is the active use of force to prevent people from having their freedom.

Mysery is lack of inherent means for attaining that which one seeks.

Materialistic mysery is basically existential despair, and pretty much self-solving, albeit sometimes at a tragic price.

Materialistic tyranny is far as I know impossible in practice. It would take some sort of projective telepathy for it to exist.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Tyranny is the active use of force to prevent people from having their freedom.

So what you're saying is that all tyranny must be 'overt.' Take the whole concept of propaganda for instance, and it doesn't matter what it is of. Propaganda by definition is not 'overt,' it cannot be, for it clearly relies on deceit. A tyrannical system can surely use deceit as one of its tools, no?

 

[LuisDantas]

So what you're saying is that all tyranny must be 'overt.' Take the whole concept of propaganda for instance, and it doesn't matter what it is of. Propaganda by definition is not 'overt,' it cannot be, for it would rely on deceit. A tyrannical system can surely use deceit as one of its tools, no?

It can use deceit, but if it is tyranny then yes, it must be overt.

A system that relies on deceit and deception without a significant overt component would be just that. Deceptive, not tyrannical. It could be resisted out of existence by simply deciding to.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Tyranny is the active use of force to prevent people from having their freedom..

True .. nevertheless, most countries have law, whch varies from nation to nation.
'The west' fears loss of freedom, so much so that they disagree with Russia or Saudia or China. We are all a product of our environment and often unable to understand different points of view.

Some people claim to be anarchists, but will be quick to report the theft of their motor vehicle to the police

 

[amorphous_constellation]

A system that relies on deceit and deception without a significant overt component would be just that. Deceptive, not tyrannical. It could be resisted out of existence by simply deciding to.

I guess I'd have to disagree. It might use tools of deception, but keep the tyrannical actions covert. That would improve its image.

 

[LuisDantas]

Come to think of it, materialistic mysery (that which called materialistic tyranny in post #3 above) is by definition self-limiting, for many of the same reasons why it is a problem at all.

After all, people feel a need to value themselves.and will strive to do so, and materialism is lacking in both motivation and means to discourage such a drive.


It seems to me that we should worry not nearly so much about materialistic mysery/tyranny as we should worry about spiritualistic recklessness and lack of wisdom from the effort to heal it. People can commit serious mistakes when they are too eager.

 

[LuisDantas]

I guess I'd have to disagree. It might use tools of deception, but keep the tyrannical actions covert. That would improve its image.

I suppose that would be a true worry in a reality where people had access to powerful mental control over others.

Since ours is not such a reality, that is not even a real problem.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

After all, people feel a need to value themselves.and will strive to do so, and materialism is lacking in both motivation and means to discourage such a drive.


It seems to me that we should worry not nearly so much about materialistic mysery/tyranny as we should worry about spiritualistic recklessness and lack of wisdom from the effort to heal it. People can commit serious mistakes when they are too eager.

Your going to have give me more of a dissertation than just that in order to be convincing. Many, many people have suffered and died for material gains. Anyone who's ever died in a coal mine, anyone who's ever had to scramble to produce physical products for a living, these people have material things granted a higher pedestal than them. Are we mere slaves to our own tools that it is even possible we should suffer for their sake?

 

[amorphous_constellation]

I suppose that would be a true worry in a reality where people had access to powerful mental control over others.

Since ours is not such a reality, that is not even a real problem.

It's a worry if we live in a world where the truth isn't always told, anywhere on the world.

 

[LuisDantas]

Help me there with your model.

How does telling the truth relate to tyranny, or to materialistic tyranny specifically?

 

[LuisDantas]

Your going to have give me more of a dissertation than just that in order to be convincing. Many, many people have suffered and died for material gains. Anyone who's ever died in a coal mine, anyone who's ever had to scramble to produce physical products for a living, these people have material things granted a higher pedestal than them. Are we mere slaves to our own tools that it is even possible we should suffer for their sake?

I take it that this is an example of the effects of materialistic tyranny, then? Is it supposed to be the same thing as greed, or perhaps as lack of wisdom?

 

[amorphous_constellation]

I take it that this is an example of the effects of materialistic tyranny, then? Is it supposed to be the same thing as greed, or perhaps as lack of wisdom?

I don't know, does 'greed' eventually cross a line into tyranny or not? To what extent can mankind take the concept of greed, can that be quite an infinite thing or is there only a limited extent?

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Help me there with your model.

How does telling the truth relate to tyranny, or to materialistic tyranny specifically?

How does tyrannical control relate to telling the objective truth?

 

[LuisDantas]

I don't know, does 'greed' eventually cross a line into tyranny or not?

It doesn't. Tyranny as I understand the term is something that a person exerts over others. Greed is internal.

I suppose greed could motivate tyranical actions, but that is a separate matter.

To what extent can mankind take the concept of greed, can that be quite an infinite thing or is there only a limited extent?

If it could be taken infinitely it would not be something to avoid.

 

[LuisDantas]

How does tyrannical control relate to telling the objective truth?

That is what I am asking you. Your OP implies that there is a strong connection, which is not obvious to me.