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Which son of Noah is Cromagnon?

Niblo

Active Member
Premium Member
The Scandinavians and Anglo-Saxons stole the land from the Silures.

The ‘Welsh’ were a collection of tribes; my own – the Silures – occupied all of what is now Glamorgan, including the Gower and up to Builth Wells. Other ‘Welsh’ tribes were the Ordovices, the Demetae, the Deceangli and the Gangani.

There was no such place as Wales. According to Professor Gwyn A. Williams: ‘A country called Wales exists only because the Welsh invented it. The Welsh exist only because they invented themselves.’ (‘When Was Wales?’).

By the eight century these people – the Britons – had realised that Britain no longer existed. They lived on the right side (i.e. the outside) of a great dyke and rampart built by folk who called them ‘foreigners’ – ‘weallas’.

These ‘foreigners’ called themselves ‘Cymry’, meaning ‘Comrades’, or ‘Fellow Countrymen’. Eventually, their warring kings hammered out a country called ‘Cymru’; also known as ‘Wales.’

It is not true that the Scandinavians and Anglo-Saxons stole the land from the Silures. The dyke I refer to was, of course, intended to prevent us Silures from raiding their lands.

The Silures believed they sprang from the earth; at least that’s what my grandad told me – and who can argue with a source like that.

I do agree with you re the so-called 'druids' of today. Pure bunkum. I seem to recall that Prince Albert had a hand in starting this nonsense, but at my age confusion comes easily. By the way, are you from my neck of the woods.....may I ask?
 
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OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
The Silures believed they sprang from the earth

There were Silures in Somerset and Devon and Cornwall, even late in the game. Beddoe said Cornwall had the most dark hair and eyes in Britain. And where the Silures lived there are Druid circles and standing stones. All of Britain was covered with Silures according to Dawkins. They used to call 'em Iberians that buried in chambered long barrows. The Saxons called 'em piskies, and said they lived in those barrows. In a hole in the ground lived a Hobbit, says Tolkien.

The mountains of Scotland still have Silures. And so does Ireland.
 
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OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
Maybe the son of Noah isn't the real question.

God didn't just rescue Noah, but saved his sons... and their wives, and Noah's wife.

There must have been more than Noah's tribe on the ark. God made the science which says this has to be true. He can't be accused of creating scientific law only to break it, repeatedly, since the dawn of time. Creationists actually use Evolution to think huge Scandinavians started off as tiny Shem... either that, or they spin a fabric of miracles to span the globe.

No unending stream of miracles followed the tribes of Japheth into their lands. The DNA of Japhethites was built into them by the seed of the woman* married to Japheth.

The God who forbids incest, didn't break that law Himself.
Who married the daughters and sons of Adam and Eve? if only two people started the whole world.

Which son of Noah's does Cro-Magnon belong to is a question that cannot be answered by the BIble. Or the question of Neanderthal, and Cheddar Man, and all of the other pre-historic peoples... they aren't mentioned in the book of Adam's generation.

Would God tell Adam about all the people which obviously came before him? ... If so, why?

The real question is Which daughter-in-law of Noah was CroMagon?
________________________
* The Seed of the Woman, by Custance

Seed of the Woman - Pt.II, ch.18
 
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OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
Now, having found the time to do the research, I'm responding to these bits of yours.

There was no such place as Wales. According to Professor Gwyn A. Williams: ‘A country called Wales exists only because the Welsh invented it. The Welsh exist only because they invented themselves.’ (‘When Was Wales?’).

It is not true that the Scandinavians and Anglo-Saxons stole the land from the Silures. The dyke I refer to was, of course, intended to prevent us Silures from raiding their lands.

'druids' of today. Pure bunkum. I seem to recall that Prince Albert had a hand in starting this nonsense

Professor Gwyn A Williams was a Marxist. Not big on the theme of property, the Marxists.

Offa's Dyke is 8th century... named after a Saxon invader, in fact. The Scandinavians however, weren't so greedy, having been used to living up the side of mountains not covered with trees.

If Prince Albert had anything to do with Druids, of any age, I can't find it.
But you seem to think that I dismiss Druidism and Barddas en masse. I certainly do not. I take almost as a matter of gospel, that which MSM calls forgery. Anything hidden that deep is worth the time spent digging. A pearl of great price, in fact.
 
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Niblo

Active Member
Premium Member
Now, having found the time to do the research, I'm responding to these bits of yours.

Professor Gwyn A Williams was a Marxist. Not big on the theme of property, the Marxists.

Does being a Marxist mean that one cannot present an accurate account of the history of one's people? If you disagree with William's then please present your case, supported by appropriate evidence.
 

Niblo

Active Member
Premium Member
There were Silures in Somerset and Devon and Cornwall, even late in the game. Beddoe said Cornwall had the most dark hair and eyes in Britain. And where the Silures lived there are Druid circles and standing stones. All of Britain was covered with Silures according to Dawkins. They used to call 'em Iberians that buried in chambered long barrows. The Saxons called 'em piskies, and said they lived in those barrows. In a hole in the ground lived a Hobbit, says Tolkien.

The mountains of Scotland still have Silures. And so does Ireland.

It was the Dumnonii who inhabited what is now Cornwall and Devon - and sections of Somerset and Dorset. Their eastern neighbours were the Durotriges. None of those folk would thank you for naming them 'Silures'. The Silures had their own territory (I've mentioned this before). These various folk, and other Celtic tribes, shared a common language, and all, of course, came from mainland Europe. In the case of the Silures, probably Celt-Iberia. The only Silures living outside of what is now Glamorgan are folk who - having been born of that tribe, in that location - have chosen to move elsewhere; my sister, for example; or whose ancestors came from that region.

Have a nice day.
 
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OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
Does being a Marxist mean that one cannot present an accurate account of the history of one's people? If you disagree with William's then please present your case, supported by appropriate evidence.

But first, I'd have to read the book to see if he had anything to back up his theory of the Welsh inventing themselves. Not gonna happen.
 

Niblo

Active Member
Premium Member
But first, I'd have to read the book to see if he had anything to back up his theory of the Welsh inventing themselves. Not gonna happen.

Why not....are you one of these folk who simply cannot permit truth to stand in the way of a cherished prejudice?
 

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
It was the Dumnonii who inhabited what is now Cornwall and Devon - and sections of Somerset and Dorset.
...
These various folk, and other Celtic tribes, shared a common language, and all, of course, came from mainland Europe.

The Celts weren't the first people on the Island, they were the first invaders thereof. ... Chronology is everything, when it comes to history.

The Long-Before-Celtic Tribes of Britain

"Strabo reports of Posidonius ... 'The Cassiterides are ten in number, and lie near each other in the ocean, towards the north from the haven of the Artabri: one of them is desert, but the others are inhabited by men in black cloaks, clad in tunics reaching to the feet, and girt about the breast; walking with staves, and bearded like goats. They subsist by their cattle, leading for the most part a wandering life. And having metals of tin and lead, these and skins they barter with the merchants for earthenware and salt, and brazen vessels.' ...
Solinus ... states that 'a stormy channel separates the coast which the Damnonii occupy from the island Silura, whose inhabitants preserve the ancient manners, reject money, barter merchandise, value what they require by exchange rather than by price, worship the gods, and both men and women profess a knowledge of the future.'...
Firbolg and Firdomnan harmonises very singularly with the legendary accounts of the tin workers of Cornwall and the tin islands. It is not difficult to recognise in the tradition that the Firbolg derived their name from the leathern sacks which they filled with soil, and with which they covered their boats, and the Firdomnan from the pits they dug, the people who worked the tin by digging in the soil and transporting it in bags to their hide-covered boats."
--Skene, Celtic Scotland,v1

"The extension of this non-Aryan race through France, Spain, and Britain, in ancient times, based solely on the evidence of the human remains, is confirmed by an appeal to the ethnology of Europe within the historic period. In the Iberian peninsula the Basque populations of the west are defined from the Celtic of the east by the Celtiberi inhabiting the modern Castille (see Map, Fig. 68). In Gaul the province of Aquitania extended as far north, in Caesar's time, as the river Garonne, constituting the modern Gascony, to which was added, in the days of Augustus, the district between that river and the Loire; a change of frontier that was probably due to the predominance of Basque blood in a mixed race in that area similar to the Celtiberi of Castille. The Aquitani were surrounded on every side, except the south, by the Celtae, extending as far north as the Seine, as far to the east as Switzerland and the plains of Lombardy, and southwards, through the valley of the Rhone and the region of the Volcae, over the Eastern Pyrenees into Spain. The district round the Phocaean colony of Marseilles was inhabited by Ligurian tribes, who held the region between the river Po and the Gulf of Genoa, as far as the western boundary of Etruria, and who probably extended to the west along the coast of Southern Gaul as far as the Pyrenees. They were distinguished from the Celtae, not merely by their manners and customs, but by their small stature and dark hair and eyes, and are stated by Pliny and Strabo to have inhabited Spain. They have also left marks of their presence in Central Gaul in the name of the Loire (Ligur), and possibly in Britain in the obscure name of the Lloegrians. They invaded Sicily as the Sikelians, and if the latter be identified with the Sikanians considered by Thucydides and other writers to be of Iberian stock, it will follow that they are a cognate race. Their stature and swarthy complexion, as well as the ancient geographical position conterminous with the Iberic population of Gaul and Spain, confirm this conclusion. The non-Aryan and probably Basque population of Gaul was therefore cut into two portions by a broad band of Celts, which crosses the Eastern Pyrenees, and marks the route by which the Iberian peninsula was invaded."
--Dawkins, Cave Hunting

VII. The three Social Tribes of the Isle of Britain. The first was the nation of the Cymry, that came with Hu the Mighty into the isle of Britain, because he would not possess lands and dominion by fighting and pursuit, but through justice and in peace. The second was the tribe of the Lloegrwys, that came from the land of Gwasgwyn, being descended from the primitive nation of the Cymry. The third were the Brython, who came from the land of Armorica, having their descent from the same stock with the Cymry. These were called the three Tribes of Peace, on account of their coming, with mutual consent, in peace and tranquillity: and these three tribes were descended from the original nation of the Cymry, and were of the same language and speech.--Cambro-Briton, v1
 

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
Why not....are you one of these folk who simply cannot permit truth to stand in the way of a cherished prejudice?

Prejudice means to judge without any prior knowledge. That ain't me. I know more than enough about Communism to give it a pass... en masse.
 

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
When did I say that they were?

Where did you say they weren't? All the tribes you mentioned that weren't Silures are Celts. And you claim up and down that Silures only [ever?] existed in a corner of Wales... which just isn't true about prehistoric Britain... or Spain or Gaul, etc.
 

Niblo

Active Member
Premium Member
Prejudice means to judge without any prior knowledge. That ain't me. I know more than enough about Communism to give it a pass... en masse.

I repeat: Does being a Marxist mean that one cannot present an accurate account of the history of one's people?
 

Niblo

Active Member
Premium Member
Where did you say they weren't? All the tribes you mentioned that weren't Silures are Celts. And you claim up and down that Silures only [ever?] existed in a corner of Wales... which just isn't true about prehistoric Britain... or Spain or Gaul, etc.

Of course they were Celts, bound by a common language and religious beliefs. They were a tribal race, and in what is now the UK had very specific territories. The Siluries occupied what is now Glamorgan...and nowhere else. You really do need to read the right books. May I suggest: 'Britannia' by Sheppard Frere; 'Searching for the Silures - An Iron Age Tribe in South-East Wales' by Ray Howell; the 'Celtic Empire' by Peter Beresford Ellis; and for Scotland: 'The Lion in the North' by John Prebble.

Enjoy!
 

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
I repeat: Does being a Marxist mean that one cannot present an accurate account of the history of one's people?

In truth, "the Welsh invented themselves" is just not the truth at all.
That name is superficial... a latter-day name pasted on by Saxons.
That Williams-quote in itself, is damaging to the Cymric claim of the land.
 

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
Of course they were Celts, bound by a common language and religious beliefs. They were a tribal race, and in what is now the UK had very specific territories. The Siluries occupied what is now Glamorgan...and nowhere else. You really do need to read the right books.

Been there, done that.

I started off reading people who'd actually been there and seen that ... and moved on to modern-day research. Your idea of "the right books" doesn't match mine. I know, hard to imagine, right?


Two Examples
the first is eye-witness, the second proves the first.

"“As is so often the case among barbarians, it is difficult to say whether the men who first dwelt in Britain are indigenous or whether they came thither. We may deduce arguments from the fact that their physical characteristics differ. For the reddish-yellow hair of the inhabitants of Caledonia [Northern Britain or Alba], as well as their sturdy limbs, point to a German origin; the swarthy complexion and curly hair of the Silures [from South West Britain], together with their position opposite Gaul, make us believe that the Iberians in ancient times crossed over and seized these territories. Those who are nearest to the Gauls resemble them, whether from the persistence of heredity, or whether, since the lands stretch out opposite each other, the climate has given the same character to the individuals.”"
--Tacitus, Agricola


Myths of British Ancestry
by Stephen Oppenheimer

"Everything you know about British and Irish ancestry is wrong. Our ancestors were Basques, not Celts. The Celts were not wiped out by the Anglo-Saxons, in fact neither had much impact on the genetic stock of these islands
...
So, based on the overall genetic perspective of the British, it seems that Celts, Belgians, Angles, Jutes, Saxons, Vikings and Normans were all immigrant minorities compared with the Basque pioneers, who first ventured into the empty, chilly lands so recently vacated by the great ice sheets."

Myths of British ancestry

Myths of British ancestry revisited
 

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
Splitter!

I disagree. What significant differences are there between Early Modern Humans and yourself? There is more variation among modern "races."

-- a Cro Magnon.

Maybe we could start calling ourselves black, red, tan, yellow, or white? Some people must be confused about where the face mask goes, and are strapping them across their eyes.
 

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
I think it's the name of a rock shelter in France where some prehistoric human remains were unearthed.
confused-smiley-013.gif

It's good enough for the Smithsonian...
Cro-Magnon 1
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Maybe we could start calling ourselves black, red, tan, yellow, or white? Some people must be confused about where the face mask goes, and are strapping them across their eyes.
????????????
I think it's a verifiable type which matches that which was found in France. The PC people want to change the names of things; wiki redirects to the same people with a different name pasted onto the file.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/7DI7BVwwqPY/hqdefault.jpg
Hey, thats my uncle Ned! -- Wrong link, I think.

"Cro magnon man" links to: European early modern humans - Wikipedia
It's good enough for the Smithsonian...
Cro-Magnon 1
From above link: "Discovered in 1868, Cro-Magnon 1 was among the first fossils to be recognized as belonging to our own species—Homo sapiens."
 
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