Which son of Noah is Cromagnon?

[Shadow Wolf]

And if you're not a redhead, you should think of changing your profile pic.

I am a strawberry blonde (that is me, by the way). And even if I'm not, it's a none issue. We share a higher rate of redheads as do the Scandinavians (think of Thors redhair and beard), but as far as I know every ethnicity has redheads.

If you're Irish and have red hair and light eyes, you're not the same tribe as the Brythonic who are the aboriginal Britons.

Yes. We came from different tribes. But they, as well as the other Celtic Nations are the insular Celts and one of the last places retaining the Celtic culture, and the Britonic and Goidelic languages themselves did likely split from the same common ancestor language, suggesting they were at one piint close enough to develop Continental Celt into Insular Celt. This development of the details and language of Insular Celt also suggests a possible outside non-Indo-European linguistic influence, as the languages feature things uncommon for Indo-European languages. But it definitely does originate from Continental Celt, so regardless the tribes it greatly complicates your Magog hypothesis. (And we get DNA tested alo).

 

[OtherSheep]

I am a strawberry blonde (that is me, by the way). ...
But it definitely does originate from Continental Celt, so regardless the tribes it greatly complicates your Magog hypothesis.

No, it really doesn't. Language can be, and often is, learned. Especially by invading forces who didn't, at first, bring wives and children.
For example, Non-IE Hurrians had IE-Mitanni overlords that used the language of the conquered Hurrian nation. They were not themselves Hurrian, but only Hurrian-speaking.


The Pre-Celtic Tribes of Britain

"We need not, however, go so far as the Pyrenees to find people identical with the small dark Welsh. The small dark Irish of the south-west of Ireland, the small dark Highlander of Scotland, and the dark inhabitants of Devon and Cornwall are physically of the same race."--Dawkins, Place of the Welsh in the History of Britain

"Solinus ... states that 'a stormy channel separates the coast which the Damnonii occupy from the island Silura, whose inhabitants preserve the ancient manners, reject money, barter merchandise, value what they require by exchange rather than by price, worship the gods, and both men and women profess a knowledge of the future.'--Skene, Celtic Scotland, v1

"Professor Rhys goes so far as to refer Druidism to the Silurian race, because Caesar mentions Britain as the birthplace of that cultus, and it is of a character which he considers non-Aryan. It is almost certain that second-sight and other ecstatic moods must be referred to the pre-Celtic races."--MacBain, Celtic Mythology and Religion

"Bertrand and Reinach both maintain the pre-Celtic origin of Druidism."
--Wright, Druidism the Ancient Faith of Britain

"so we must pass on to the non-Celtic natives, who had another religion, namely, druidism, which may be surmised to have had its origin among them."--Rhys, Celtic Britain

"The monuments we call Druidical, must be appropriated, exclusively, to the Aborigines of the midland, and western divisions. They are found in such corners, and fastnesses, as have, in all ages, and countries, been the last retreat of the conquered, and the last that are occupied by the victorious."--Davies, Celtic Researches

"The ancient throne was, however, in existence in that part of Wales formerly denominated Siluria, and though its practical authority was curtailed, yet it was genuine and vigorous, and laid claim to all its primitive rights and privileges. Under its protection also flourished Bardism in its native integrity. The correctness of this hypothesis is attested by the unanimous voice of our traditionary documents; and it is remarkable that all those which relate to the doctrine and institutes of the primitive system are invariably written in the Silurian dialect."
--Williams, Ecclesiastical Antiquities of the Cymry

What must be the "Silurian dialect"?

Would blonde or red invaders write the Bardic History called Gododdin?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No, it really doesn't. Language can be, and often is, learned. Especially by invading forces who didn't, at first, bring wives and children.
For example, Non-IE Hurrians had IE-Mitanni overlords that used the language of the conquered Hurrian nation. They were not themselves Hurrian, but only Hurrian-speaking.


The Pre-Celtic Tribes of Britain

"We need not, however, go so far as the Pyrenees to find people identical with the small dark Welsh. The small dark Irish of the south-west of Ireland, the small dark Highlander of Scotland, and the dark inhabitants of Devon and Cornwall are physically of the same race."--Dawkins, Place of the Welsh in the History of Britain

"Solinus ... states that 'a stormy channel separates the coast which the Damnonii occupy from the island Silura, whose inhabitants preserve the ancient manners, reject money, barter merchandise, value what they require by exchange rather than by price, worship the gods, and both men and women profess a knowledge of the future.'--Skene, Celtic Scotland, v1

"Professor Rhys goes so far as to refer Druidism to the Silurian race, because Caesar mentions Britain as the birthplace of that cultus, and it is of a character which he considers non-Aryan. It is almost certain that second-sight and other ecstatic moods must be referred to the pre-Celtic races."--MacBain, Celtic Mythology and Religion

"Bertrand and Reinach both maintain the pre-Celtic origin of Druidism."
--Wright, Druidism the Ancient Faith of Britain

"so we must pass on to the non-Celtic natives, who had another religion, namely, druidism, which may be surmised to have had its origin among them."--Rhys, Celtic Britain

"The monuments we call Druidical, must be appropriated, exclusively, to the Aborigines of the midland, and western divisions. They are found in such corners, and fastnesses, as have, in all ages, and countries, been the last retreat of the conquered, and the last that are occupied by the victorious."--Davies, Celtic Researches

"The ancient throne was, however, in existence in that part of Wales formerly denominated Siluria, and though its practical authority was curtailed, yet it was genuine and vigorous, and laid claim to all its primitive rights and privileges. Under its protection also flourished Bardism in its native integrity. The correctness of this hypothesis is attested by the unanimous voice of our traditionary documents; and it is remarkable that all those which relate to the doctrine and institutes of the primitive system are invariably written in the Silurian dialect."
--Williams, Ecclesiastical Antiquities of the Cymry

What must be the "Silurian dialect"?

Would blonde or red invaders write the Bardic History called Gododdin?

You are ignoring solid academic research into Insular Celts, and though you keep bringing up Wales, you haven't mentioned the Welsh are big into the idea of reviving a crude approximation of Druidry, nor have younot acknowledged there basically was no Welsh or Wales until the Romans withdrew and suddenly there is Walsh identity and Wales. Nor have you acknowledged the effects of the last Ice Age, which basically made the Briton Isles uninhabited, with a continual presence of humans starting after the Ice Age about around 9000 BC. By this time, H. Neanderthalensis and first H. Sapiens were gone from the Islands and history, leaving the Island for its new Celtic inhabitants.

 

[OtherSheep]

You are ignoring solid academic research into Insular Celts, and though you keep bringing up Wales, you haven't mentioned the Welsh are big into the idea of reviving a crude approximation of Druidry, nor have younot acknowledged there basically was no Welsh or Wales until the Romans withdrew and suddenly there is Walsh identity and Wales.

Nor have you acknowledged the effects of the last Ice Age, which basically made the Briton Isles uninhabited, with a continual presence of humans starting after the Ice Age about around 9000 BC. By this time, H. Neanderthalensis and first H. Sapiens were gone from the Islands and history, leaving the Island for its new Celtic inhabitants.

Poppycock. Don't believe everything you read, Shadow Wolf. The people who stole the island have been busy ever since, taking the history, the priests, and the language away from the Aboriginal Britons. The theory goes that if you take their history... blah, blah... they belong to whomever feeds them what passes itself off as history today.

Paragraph 2. Sure I have. I mentioned the small dark people... who lived at the base of the Pyrenees in what's called an ice age refuge. That date you mention matches the time when Wales is said to have come to Briton... as the oldest inhabitants.

Neanderthals were mostly Eastern Europe and Asia.
Britain had Cro-Magnon... the artists of Gaul.

What you call Celtic were the second and third wave. They were the round-head round-barrow people.
But first, were the long-headed Britons who buried in long-barrows.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Poppycock. Don't believe everything you read, Shadow Wolf. The people who stole the island have been busy ever since, taking the history, the priests, and the language away from the Aboriginal Britons. The theory goes that if you take their history... blah, blah... they belong to whomever feeds them what passes itself off as history today.

Nothing was stolen. The Ice Age came, people migrated South, much of Northern and Western Europe became very harsh for us, and after the ice melted people returned to those parts of England and repeopled lands not inhabited for generations.
And, by the way, I don't believe everything I read, and it's expected but still crude on your part to assume I am that gullible. I don't believe your hypothesis of the Celts being descended from Japeth, for example, nor any such material related to the so-called Briton Jews. DNA evidence destroys that silly idea (especially for the more extreme views who deny the Jews are the Jews amd posit that instead the British are the "real Jews").
And how much do yku even actually know of the Celtic Nations history? Like Robert the Bruce's rebellion. The English may take over in name, but the Scots and Irish did not go peacefully amd some Irish did follow Robert the Bruce into a malestrom of blood that took them throughout Great Briton and Ireland and Northern Ireland. Irish and Scottish culture developed and survived. The kilt itself even took on a new life after England banned them, provoking the Scots to adopt them as a symbol of national identity and defiance of England. You seem to know about pre-Ice Age Briton, but much of the world was reshaped geographically, fauna and flora looked different after some extinctions, and they were different demographically with people after that. Including new people on the Briton Isles, a group of Celts who would come to be known as the Insular Celts.

 

[OtherSheep]

The people who stole the island have been busy ever since, taking the history, the priests, and the language away from the Aboriginal Britons. The theory goes that if you take their history... blah, blah... they belong to whomever feeds them what passes itself off as history today.

Nothing was stolen.

Nonsense. The Scandinavians and Anglo-Saxons stole the land from the Silures. The Papists burned the histories, and slaughtered the Druids at Bangor. The Saxons took away the language after taking away the Lloegrwys' government and murdering every Brythonaeg they could lay their barbaric hands upon. ... AFTER The Ice Age.

And how much do yku even actually know of the Celtic Nations history? Like Robert the Bruce's rebellion. The English may take over in name, but the Scots and Irish did not go peacefully amd some Irish did follow Robert the Bruce into a malestrom of blood that took them throughout Great Briton and Ireland and Northern Ireland. Irish and Scottish culture developed and survived. The kilt itself even took on a new life after England banned them, provoking the Scots to adopt them as a symbol of national identity and defiance of England.

ANCIENT PHYSICAL DESCRIPTIONS OF BRITONS, GAULS & CELTS

Gauls, Britons, Celts... which one was Robert the Bruce?

Face of King Robert The Bruce, Outlaw King is Brought Back to Life 700 Years After His Death

The picture says he was a Briton... Silures, in other words.

You seem to know about pre-Ice Age Briton, but much of the world was reshaped geographically, fauna and flora looked different after some extinctions, and they were different demographically with people after that. Including new people on the Briton Isles, a group of Celts who would come to be known as the Insular Celts.

Welsh people could be most ancient in UK, DNA suggests
Genetic map tracks ancient Welsh

Right up front is a pic of a dark-haired man, with the caption:
A depiction of early man for The Story of Wales series

The Welsh are Silures... the first people in the island. Cornwall is west Wales... which is called by another news article, the oldest tribe in Britain. The last bit makes sense, since Cornwall is next to the islands Solinus speaks of. And Redruth is called the oldest Druid placement. Cornwall is covered with stone circles. And the Cretan Maze is on her cave walls, just as the Cretan Maze is the shape of the Glastonbury Tor Maze.

Glastonbury Tor Labyrinth

Welsh/Cornish and Minoan are VSO languages.
And Ireland's Silurians, and Scotland's Silurians... etc.

Having the same language doesn't mean having the same history.
Vikings in Dublin learned Gaelic. If I were a redhead, I'd be looking at Norway... except for Brunn.

It is said that Cornish Arthur conquered Norway... which could explain Brunn. Just as with any other oral history... and with any history copied from copies... the thread of truth remains. Before they researched Titangel, that was a myth, too.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The picture says he was a Briton... Silures, in other words.

Obviously he was Briton, more specifically Scottish.
And if you judge only by picture I have no further interests there is no more info of use I can obtain from your ramblings. Especially when you won't acknowledge asignificant global event that changed the human landscape on a global scale.

 

[ChristineM]

I have changed my profile picture to that of the Cro-Magnon woman of Paviland Cave in Wales. I believe that this is the original people of Britain. These were black-haired and tanned dolichiocephalic, which matches the description that Thurnam and Bedoe gave to the aborigines of Britain. It also matches what Tacitus and Solinus say about the Silures who lived all along the South-West Coast of Britain.

Cromagnon never died out. Their type still exists today. See the web page below.

Antropologia fisica

So I ask the question, Which Son of Noah is Cromagnon?
If Japheth was given Europe, Which Son of Japheth is Cromagnon?

Cro-magnon were homo sapiens, just like you and everyone else, an anatomically modern human

 

[ChristineM]

You are not Cro-Magnon. You are Homo Sapiens Sapiens. And yes, I do have a degree in Anthropology.

Cro magnon were homo sapiens

 

[OtherSheep]

Obviously he was Briton, more specifically Scottish.
And if you judge only by picture I have no further interests there is no more info of use I can obtain from your ramblings. Especially when you won't acknowledge asignificant global event that changed the human landscape on a global scale.

Scottish Briton is like African French. The history of the country becomes the history of the colonist. An extreme example:

"The French consular agent having sometime ago overstepped the limits of the land, a warrant was taken out against him. Holding the sable powers in great contempt, he armed himself with a pair of pistols and defied them with the air of a brigand at the Victoria. 'Ah!' cried the two constables, rapidly retreating, 'we no care for you, one damn Frenchman. I tink you forget we win Waterloo-eh?' "--Reade, Savage Africa


The Ice Age was not a global event.

Ice Age Maps showing the extent of the ice sheets


The invasions of Britain were real. But the Scandinavians didn't speak Celtic. Neither did the Saxons.

Ancient invaders transformed Britain, but not its DNA

What DNA does is come up with a theory about who lived where ... generates a map ... looks for surnames matching the language they assume the inhabitants had ... for a few generations ... and hands out congratulation stickers for the people who didn't mind giving their DNA.

What they completely fail to recognize is the fact that languages are adopted by the invaders [no women and children at the melee]. And the invaders take aboriginal names by changing their language, just as the case of the Mitanni kings with Hurrian names.

I completely understand why this is a hard truth for those who like to think the Druids were Persian Magi or find Celtic jewelry pretty. But what is called Celtic jewelry was worn by the people who wrecked Troy, that Homer calls the Greeks. Not to be confused with the Pelasgians of Troy and Crete.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I completely understand why this is a hard truth for those who like to think the Druids were Persian Magi

Does anyone think that?

 

[Valjean]

The Ice Age was not global?
Well, the ice sheets weren't global, but the climate change was.

 

[OtherSheep]

Does anyone think that?

Modern people calling themselves Druids and Witches do. Silurian Druids were even upset about non-druids polluting their sacred ground. I shudder to think about things so much worse than Rome burning down the Ligurian Nemeton at Massalia.

 

[OtherSheep]

The Ice Age was not global?
Well, the ice sheets weren't global, but the climate change was.

Some say the polar ice caps melted, so up and down are now left and right.
Some say Global Warming is actually Global Cooling.

 

[Valjean]

Some say the polar ice caps melted, so up and down are now left and right.
Some say Global Warming is actually Global Cooling.

??????????
Who says this and when do they say it happened?
They wouldn't be talking about the Pleistocene.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Modern people calling themselves Druids and Witches do.

No, they have a modern image heavily influenced by a Welsh reconstruction/approximation of it. No Magi involved.

 

[OtherSheep]

No, they have a modern image heavily influenced by a Welsh reconstruction/approximation of it. No Magi involved.

Regarding Druids... If you're talking about the Barddas, I agree that's an approximation of what the Ancient Druids taught. Modernists represented by the white cloaked people, don't even seem to know that white was what you wore to a funeral. But Solinus says they wore black, kept sheep, were sea people, etc. Giraldus says Awenddion had to come from Troy. How many people believe that, today? One?

Magic came from Babylon and the Persian Magi. Please don't tell me you don't believe that incantations had nothing to do with the Magi, or that Witches don't do it. I would have to think you're joking.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

gic came from Babylon and the Persian Magi. Please don't tell me you don't believe that incantations had nothing to do with the Magi, or that Witches don't do it. I would have to think you're joking.

I never claimed such. The magi, and many others do chanting, but the Magi are not involved with this modern reconstructed version of Druidry.

 

[OtherSheep]

??????????
Who says this and when do they say it happened?
They wouldn't be talking about the Pleistocene.

Websearch, if you please. I found it many months ago when I was researching the Ice Sheets. One man said he believed that life itself began way up north. Agassiz says the first land to emerge was at Lake Superior.

Global Cooling theory is new, saying that people won't be as scared of Global Warming, so that's what they said was happening these days. I can't help thinking about disaster flicks like the Day After Tomorrow, whenever I think about it. In fact, flash freezing sounds better than the slow torture of melting heat, but that's probably just me.

 

[OtherSheep]

I never claimed such. The magi, and many others do chanting, but the Magi are not involved with this modern reconstructed version of Druidry.

Yep. Most ideas of Druidism are straight from the imagination of some screenwriter or other. I wonder if those writers would enjoy the faith of their tribe twisted into something other than. But maybe assigning faith to them is as much of a stretch as their screenplays. When all else fails, blame the telly.