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Which Route Should Be Taken in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict?

Which route do you believe should be taken concerning the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?


  • Total voters
    34
  • Poll closed .

Exaltist Ethan

Bridging the Gap Between Believers and Skeptics
Wouldn't full Israeli sovereignty be a Jewish State in your thinking? What if Jews lose majority through birthrates and such? Couldn't elections put Palestinians in majority control of Israel?

I'm an outsider so maybe I'm not understanding something.

You fundamentally confused what I was trying to say. I am saying that there should either be one state of Israel or two states, like what we have now. One OR the other, not both. The only thing I fully disagree with is one Palestine nation for the entire area it occupies.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
You fundamentally confused what I was trying to say. I am saying that there should either be one state of Israel or two states, like what we have now. One OR the other, not both. The only thing I fully disagree with is one Palestine nation for the entire area it occupies.
Actually I understood you. My question is wouldn't that one state be a democracy of one vote one person. Israel is a Jewish State but how could that be if Palestinian were the voting majority and could change that. How would Israel then be unique from any other democratic country?

What am I missing with the this One State solution? Why would Jews like such a thing?
 

Exaltist Ethan

Bridging the Gap Between Believers and Skeptics
Actually I understood you. My question is wouldn't that one state be a democracy of one vote one person. Israel is a Jewish State but how could that be if Palestinian were the voting majority and could change that. How would Israel then be unique from any other democratic country?

What am I missing with the this One State solution? Why would Jews like such a thing?

Maybe they wouldn't like that. But they could compartmentalize Palestinian power by creating sectarian powers that would be delegated specifically for that area.

Unfortunately I don't know enough about the area or the conflict to give you a solid answer regarding that question.
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
Wouldn't full Israeli sovereignty be a Jewish State in your thinking? What if Jews lose majority through birthrates and such? Couldn't elections put Palestinians in majority control of Israel?
Among those currently vying for full Israeli sovereignty, the accepted model is citizenship for Jews and minorities that currently fall under Israeli jurisdiction (Israeli Arabs, Druze, Circassians, etc) and the rest will be granted residency status. In other words, they will not be able to outvote the Jewish identity of the state. My personal hopes are, as I outlined in the rest of my post, is that with recieving more rights in other countries, along with efforts to abolish their refugee mentality which they have been forced to hold on to for nearly 75 years now, some of these people will also see promise in immigration to other places. Immigration will be helpful in balancing the populations.

Should this future come to pass, and we will see the dismantling of groups like the PA and Hamas and efforts towards real peace, I could envision talks to granting more rights some time farther down the line.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
I am, but I'm only exaggerating my view. I have no sympathy for either side and no hope for a solution. Both have broken treaties again and again. Every attempt at a peaceful solution has failed and there is no indication that there could be a lasting solution.
Except Marmite, maybe it is time to try Marmite.

Edward de Bono's solution may be the only way
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
Among those currently vying for full Israeli sovereignty, the accepted model is citizenship for Jews and minorities that currently fall under Israeli jurisdiction (Israeli Arabs, Druze, Circassians, etc) and the rest will be granted residency status. In other words, they will not be able to outvote the Jewish identity of the state. My personal hopes are, as I outlined in the rest of my post, is that with recieving more rights in other countries, along with efforts to abolish their refugee mentality which they have been forced to hold on to for nearly 75 years now, some of these people will also see promise in immigration to other places. Immigration will be helpful in balancing the populations.

Should this future come to pass, and we will see the dismantling of groups like the PA and Hamas and efforts towards real peace, I could envision talks to granting more rights some time farther down the line.
Thanks for starting to clarify this.

So are you saying Palestinians currently living in the West Bank and Gaza would not be citizens but just 'residents' in this one state solution?

Somehow, I can see that as only escalating the tensions. (unless there is something I'm not understanding)
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't know. Here are two ideas that (with my limited information) make sense to me. I wouldn't be surprised if I heard one of these things happen:

I think those in Gaza and Westbank object very much to Jewish rule, however since they cannot put together a stable representative government for themselves why not have a stable Islam-aligned government annex them? How about Egypt or Saudi Arabia? Perhaps this doesn't sound ideal, however I think it would be a peaceful solution and might stop a lot of evil and rumors of evil.

Another option is for either Gaza or Westbank to have their own separate monarchies. I like Republics, but if the population believes that having a strong leader (such as a Caliph) is more moral or just more ideal, then that population has trouble supporting a representative form of government. Yes, Florida can have a hockey team, but should it? Representative government requires believing that such a government can work and can move in a moral direction.

I am not a sage, a lawyer or a representative of a government. I'm just telling you what you asked for: what I think.
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
Another option is for either Gaza or Westbank to have their own separate monarchies. I like Republics, but if the population believes that having a strong leader (such as a Caliph) is more moral or just more ideal, then that population has trouble supporting a representative form of government. Yes, Florida can have a hockey team, but should it? Representative government requires believing that such a government can work and can move in a moral direction.
I wonder if a caliph-type leader would be able to control the khamula wars (somewhat akin to gang wars or rival crime families in the West).
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Somehow I don't think that the number of states makes much of a difference. If a true solution is to be achieved, it will not be due to having established certain national boundaries. That just never works.

Actually, I think that the opposite is the best shot. The nationalities should be deliberately dilluted - to the point of meaninglessness if at all possible.

I don't expect this idea to fly, but if it fell to me to suggest some sort of concrete measure, I would push for exchanges of citizens for limited periods of time. Say, 100 Israelis and 100 Palestinians, volunteers on each side, living for a whole year at each other's communities. Hopefully that might help reinforce the perception of humanity from both sides and enable some measure of badly needed mutual understanding, if not acceptance.
 

King Phenomenon

Well-Known Member
Too bad they can't just get along but it doesn't look like they ever will unfortunately. Even when the lord brings Armageddon and the world begins again they'll still be fighting. But at least neither of them will get a chance to completely destroy the other. I guess that's the good news.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
I wonder if a caliph-type leader would be able to control the khamula wars (somewhat akin to gang wars or rival crime families in the West).
Yes, a very intelligent and energetic one could. It would need to be someone capable and with a good support team.

Personally I think that without some constraints (such as a parliament) an absolute monarch will go insane. They will lose touch. Be that as it may, an absolute monarch cannot start out with competition to their rule. That destabilizes things. There is no way around it, so at first a monarchy must be very unstable. There can be no one to question the monarch at first, and so the person will be dogged endlessly with positive compliments and affirmations all day long until they have no idea what is up or down.

So yes they can get the criminal gangs under control but for the next fifty to one hundred years weird things will happen. Like they might try to start a space program or something like that.
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
So are you saying Palestinians currently living in the West Bank and Gaza would not be citizens but just 'residents' in this one state solution?
Yes. Legal residents have various rights, but not electoral rights. There are other countries that have people with this status. Right now Palestinians hold no rights in Israel because they are not under its legal jurisdiction. They are foreigners.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Somehow I don't think that the number of states makes much of a difference. If a true solution is to be achieved, it will not be due to having established certain national boundaries. That just never works.

Actually, I think that the opposite is the best shot. The nationalities should be deliberately dilluted - to the point of meaninglessness if at all possible.

I don't expect this idea to fly, but if it fell to me to suggest some sort of concrete measure, I would push for exchanges of citizens for limited periods of time. Say, 100 Israelis and 100 Palestinians, volunteers on each side, living for a whole year at each other's communities. Hopefully that might help reinforce the perception of humanity from both sides and enable some measure of badly needed mutual understanding, if not acceptance.

You might find this interesting...

AFL Peace Team - Wikipedia
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
Yes, a very intelligent and energetic one could. It would need to be someone capable and with a good support team.

Personally I think that without some constraints (such as a parliament) an absolute monarch will go insane. They will lose touch. Be that as it may, an absolute monarch cannot start out with competition to their rule. That destabilizes things. There is no way around it, so at first a monarchy must be very unstable. There can be no one to question the monarch at first, and so the person will be dogged endlessly with positive compliments and affirmations all day long until they have no idea what is up or down.

So yes they can get the criminal gangs under control but for the next fifty to one hundred years weird things will happen. Like they might try to start a space program or something like that.
I don't know how familiar you are with how khamula wars work. They're not exactly like Western crime families or gangs. That's why I wrote somewhat akin. But I suppose you're right in principle: An intelligent individual with the right support team might be able to control these groups.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
Yes. Legal residents have various rights, but not electoral rights. There are other countries that have people with this status. Right now Palestinians hold no rights in Israel because they are not under its legal jurisdiction. They are foreigners.
Well if they form one state the Palestinians would expect full citizenship or I would see no peace. How does anyone see this working peacefully?
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
There will be no peace of any kind as long as the two parties cannot treat each other as brothers and sisters. Fanatics on both sides will fight against that possibility.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
Yes. Legal residents have various rights, but not electoral rights. There are other countries that have people with this status. Right now Palestinians hold no rights in Israel because they are not under its legal jurisdiction. They are foreigners.
what an incredibly stupid statement, how can they be foreigners in their own land, historically the jews are more the foreigners here if anyone is
 
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