Which prophecies did Jesus fulfill as to be the Messiah?

[nazz]

There would be a real reluctance to leave the Law since a Jew is brought up in that tradition, but there already had been groups that we now call "liberal Pharisees" that tended to be more Hellenized and more inclusive, thus more emphasizing the "law of love", as it came to be called later. To me, Jesus and Paul are not saying the Law is bad and must be left, but that something was greater than the Law in their opinion, namely Jesus. Therefore, the following of the Law could at least be tolerated as long as Jesus' basic teachings were followed. Thus we see references to following the Law that appear to be inconsistent but really aren't. At least that's how I connect the dots-- correctly or not.

We have to remember that James is Jesus' brother, and we well know that hiding things from your brother ain't gonna be that easy. IOW, your brother is going to see you at what you really are, although maybe a bit on the negative side. Paul doesn't know Jesus that way, therefore he's probably unaware that Jesus squeezes the toothpaste tube from the middle and periodically farts. Therefore, it's not really hard to imagine why James is more going to focus in on the Law whereas Paul is more going to focus in on the more pristine image of Jesus.

It has puzzled me how it was that Paul, who never met Jesus in the flesh, seemed to have captured the spirit of Jesus' teaching better than those who walked with Jesus in person. I think as you say James and the others were too steeped in religious tradition and were reluctant to let it all go. It was probably much easier for Paul a Hellenistic Jew to adopt a more universalist outlook.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Let me supply a list that our sages have long felt were messianic in nature:

The Sanhedrin will be re-established (Isaiah 1:26)

Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance (Isaiah 2:4)

The whole world will worship the One God of Israel (Isaiah 2:17)

He will be descended from King David (Isaiah 11:1) via King Solomon (1 Chron. 22:8–10)

The Moshiach will be a man of this world, an observant Jew with "fear of God" (Isaiah 11:2)

Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership (Isaiah 11:4)

Knowledge of God will fill the world (Isaiah 11:9)

He will include and attract people from all cultures and nations (Isaiah 11:10)

All Israelites will be returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12)

Death will be swallowed up forever (Isaiah 25:8)

There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8)

All of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19)

The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11)

He will be a messenger of peace (Isaiah 52:7)

Nations will recognize the wrongs they did Israel (Isaiah 52:13–53:5)

For My House (the Temple in Jerusalem) shall be called a house of prayer for all nations (Isaiah 56:3–7)

The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23)

The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55)

Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9)

The Temple will be rebuilt (Ezekiel 40) resuming many of the suspended mitzvoth

He will then perfect the entire world to serve God together (Zephaniah 3:9)

Jews will know the Torah without Study (Jeremiah 31:33)

He will give you all the desires of your heart (Psalms 37:4)

He will take the barren land and make it abundant and fruitful (Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13–15, Ezekiel 36:29–30, Isaiah 11:6–9)

A wall of text of Biblical verses does not interest me. Perhaps it is better for you to respond to me with an interpretation instead of a wall of Biblical text. That is a sure way to turn me off. It is also considered intellectual laziness equated with telling someone to "google it." I think if someone who is not knowledgable about computers asked a question and the technician gave them an itemized list of things that a computer does I'm sure that will not answer the person's question.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

A wall of text of Biblical verses does not interest me. Perhaps it is better for you to respond to me with an interpretation instead of a wall of Biblical text. That is a sure way to turn me off. It is also considered intellectual laziness equated with telling someone to "google it." I think if someone who is not knowledgable about computers asked a question and the technician gave them an itemized list of things that a computer does I'm sure that will not answer the person's question.

It's a checklist. Those are the things the Messiah or Messianic age is supposed to herald in. Those are the interpretations of the verses.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

It's a checklist. Those are the things the Messiah or Messianic age is supposed to herald in. Those are the interpretations of the verses.

Great!

Now when I get on break from work and find a handy Bible I'll be able to have time to read it!

I don't want to sound like a jerk but we all can't assume that we on a forum are able to simply look at a checklist and come to our own understanding. This is why on subjects like this it is best to condense responses and at least explain it.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Great!

Now when I get on break from work and find a handy Bible I'll be able to have time to read it!

I don't want to sound like a jerk but we all can't assume that we on a forum are able to simply look at a checklist and come to our own understanding. This is why on subjects like this it is best to condense responses and at least explain it.

I don't think it is a simple matter to condense. There seems to be a lot that is required for that age to come about. These are events that are supposed to happen and so next to the interpretation he listed the verse that they come from.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I don't think it is a simple matter to condense. There seems to be a lot that is required for that age to come about. These are events that are supposed to happen and so next to the interpretation he listed the verse that they come from.

I agree it is not simple. Then I leave it up to the person making the claim opposite of mine, to simply say "I don't know, and that to explain requires a lot of detail."

 

[metis]

It has puzzled me how it was that Paul, who never met Jesus in the flesh, seemed to have captured the spirit of Jesus' teaching better than those who walked with Jesus in person. I think as you say James and the others were too steeped in religious tradition and were reluctant to let it all go. It was probably much easier for Paul a Hellenistic Jew to adopt a more universalist outlook.

Yes, I think that is likely, and I also think that this is also where Jesus was from, although I don't think he was as specific as Paul was. To me, Jesus had a mystique about him, and I think part of that mystique involved his speaking in parables. You know, the devil's in the details, and it appears that Jesus pretty much avoided them as the apostles seem to be quite confused at times as far as what specifically should be done and how. However, I think he would have been a very interesting person to listen to.

 

[metis]

A wall of text of Biblical verses does not interest me. Perhaps it is better for you to respond to me with an interpretation instead of a wall of Biblical text. That is a sure way to turn me off. It is also considered intellectual laziness equated with telling someone to "google it." I think if someone who is not knowledgable about computers asked a question and the technician gave them an itemized list of things that a computer does I'm sure that will not answer the person's question.

Sorry, but there's no other way I could have done it, and I actually thought I was doing you a favor, but obviously you don't see it that way.

 

[nazz]

Yes, I think that is likely, and I also think that this is also where Jesus was from, although I don't think he was as specific as Paul was. To me, Jesus had a mystique about him, and I think part of that mystique involved his speaking in parables. You know, the devil's in the details, and it appears that Jesus pretty much avoided them as the apostles seem to be quite confused at times as far as what specifically should be done and how. However, I think he would have been a very interesting person to listen to.

Indeed

 

[CMike]

A wall of text of Biblical verses does not interest me. Perhaps it is better for you to respond to me with an interpretation instead of a wall of Biblical text. That is a sure way to turn me off. It is also considered intellectual laziness equated with telling someone to "google it." I think if someone who is not knowledgable about computers asked a question and the technician gave them an itemized list of things that a computer does I'm sure that will not answer the person's question.

It's a shame that the facts and texts don't interest you.


Perhaps you can make some stuff up? That would be much better.

 

[CMike]

It's a checklist. Those are the things the Messiah or Messianic age is supposed to herald in. Those are the interpretations of the verses.

Those are the translations they don't need creative interpretation.

 

[CMike]

I agree it is not simple. Then I leave it up to the person making the claim opposite of mine, to simply say "I don't know, and that to explain requires a lot of detail."

Good grief

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Those are the translations they don't need creative interpretation.

I didn't say they were creative, they are however as far as I can tell reading the verses, interpretations.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

I didn't say they were creative, they are however as far as I can tell reading the verses, interpretations.

They look like interpretations to me. It seems like people are pretty free and easy with presenting their own individual paraphrases of the prophecies.

Sometimes I think they do that in order to support their own positions. (Not in this current case. Just generally.)

I myself don't believe that God does magic in the world. He doesn't whisper the future into the ears of his chosen mouthpieces. But if He does, then we would need to honor the precise nature of those words. To paraphrase them would be to usurp the prophet, so it seems to me.

But of course we can't mirror these words into modern English. We don't have a native speaker/member of the community to whom they were first written.

 

[John Martin]

Jesus Christ said that 'I have not come to abolish the Law but to fulfill the Law.
He also said that the sabbath is made for human beings and not human beings for the sake of the Sabbath.
The spirituality of Jesus is described as the kingdom of God. There are two types of spirituality: spirituality based on the Law and spirituality of the kingdom of God.
In the spirituality based on the Law, first comes the Law(religion), second comes God as described by the Law and third come human beings who have to worship God according to that Law or Religion.
The kingdom of God is an experience of God in which a person will say, my life is not my life but God's life, my actions are not my actions but God's actions.Jesus Christ said 'that the words that I speak are not my own but the Father who dwells in me does his work'.
In the spirituality of the kingdom of God, first comes God who is greater than the Law and human beings, second come human beings who are greater than the Law or Religion and third comes religion or Law which meant to be at the service of human beings and not human beings at the service of religion. It is transcending religion and grounding oneself in God.
The spirituality of the kingdom of God is the fulfillment of the spirituality of the Law. Jesus Christ did not come to abolish the spirituality based on the Law but discovered an experience of God in which the Law or religion becomes relative.
Jesus Christ opened the higher possibility of divine and human relationship. He invited everyone to grow into that relationship. This is not something we can see externally. Each individual has to grow into that experience. It is each one's responsibility.Each individual has to fulfill the Law and discover the kingdom of God.

 

[metis]

Including keeping kosher and observing the Sabbath?