Which one is a Cult? A or B?

[Dogknox20]

May I ask you a question, DK20. Perhaps there are those that claim to be a member of a particular church, thinking that is the true church, but some within may question whether Jesus really existed as written, or even if he existed at all - what would you then say, how do you feel about that, Dogknox20? Would that person really know Jesus, would he be accepted by Jesus, the Rock and foundation of the true, real church founded on himself? (also for @metis if he cares to respond as well)
Jesus did teach his followers to say the following prayer -- "Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed by thy name. Thy kingdom come -- thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven..."
1 John 5:10 .... "Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son."

YoursTrue good question.. simple answer is; to each is given; the more given the more is expected! BUT... ALL are judged by their love! Don't matter if you are caught up in snake worship if that is what you were born into knowing nothing different! THINK: the North American Indian were Pagan they knew nothing about Jesus but they all knew how to love or hate!
The Sheep are judged saved because they LOVE! Matthew 25 The Goats have "Faith ALONE" they are judged Satan's children! CAN'T....

YoursTrue cant' believe in Jesus if you are never told about Jesus!

 

[YoursTrue]

So is Jesus the rock?

I reply...
The Rock is Peter..... The Apostles are the Foundation and the Church is Built on Rock by Jesus the master builder!
Both the CHURCH is the Body of Jesus, the CHURCH is built on Jesus! Christians are the body of The Church, the Church is built up by Christians!
1 Corinthians 3:11
For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Notice also Paul in 1 Corinthians 3:10 is saying that there are others, besides Jesus, who are building up the church
10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care.
YoursTrue All Christians in some way participate in building up the church.

Peter tells us that Jesus is “the living stone rejected by men” BUT... you also
1 Peter 2:5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

Jesus is the good shepherd in John 10:11, but yet clearly, Jesus makes Peter the shepherd of his church in John 21:15-17, “Feed my lambs, shepherd my sheep, feed my sheep.”
Jesus is the light of the world, John 9:5. But yet, we’re told in Matthew 5:14, that we’re all “the light of the world”

YoursTrue The word "Peter" means ROCK...Jesus changed Simons name to "ROCK"! The metaphor of being the foundation of Jesus’ church in no way takes away from Jesus as literally the one ultimate foundation.
Ephesians 2:19-20, St. Paul says that the church is “built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets. Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone.”
Ephesians 2:20
built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.

YoursTrue The Church is BUILT ON ROCK! It will never ever fail! God is the BUILDER it will never ever fail!
The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church is that Church... 2000 years old with linage going back to Peter and thus Jesus!

The Catholic Church will never fail...
Hebrews 11:10
For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God.

1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.[/QUOTE]
No...the Rock is Jesus. Anyway, the church (or congregation) that Jesus authorizes is built on HIM.

 

[YoursTrue]

YoursTrue good question.. simple answer is; to each is given; the more given the more is expected! BUT... ALL are judged by their love! Don't matter if you are caught up in snake worship if that is what you were born into knowing nothing different! THINK: the North American Indian were Pagan they knew nothing about Jesus but they all knew how to love or hate!
The Sheep are judged saved because they LOVE! Matthew 25 The Goats have "Faith ALONE" they are judged Satan's children! CAN'T....

YoursTrue cant' believe in Jesus if you are never told about Jesus!

To believe in Jesus means that you believe him.

 

[YoursTrue]

Let me say it differently, for even in the name of Christianity there can be a cult.

I looked up another definition:

Merriam/Webster: a small religious group that is not part of a larger and more accepted religion and that has beliefs regarded by many people as extreme or dangerous

I think the key word here is "extreme or dangerous".

Free dictionary: A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader. and ...Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing."

Perhaps the key words here are "living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian." and "obsessive".

I suppose every religion can have a cult but I wouldn't say that just because there is a difference, it is designated as a cult.

Did that help?

I would say that when a religion has the power to torture a person claiming this "inquisition" is god-ordained is dangerous. Similarly, when someone is killed in the name of religion that too is dangerous.

 

[YoursTrue]

I reply...
The Rock is Peter..... The Apostles are the Foundation and the Church is Built on Rock by Jesus the master builder!
Both the CHURCH is the Body of Jesus, the CHURCH is built on Jesus! Christians are the body of The Church, the Church is built up by Christians!
1 Corinthians 3:11
For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Notice also Paul in 1 Corinthians 3:10 is saying that there are others, besides Jesus, who are building up the church
10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care.
YoursTrue All Christians in some way participate in building up the church.

Peter tells us that Jesus is “the living stone rejected by men” BUT... you also
1 Peter 2:5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

Jesus is the good shepherd in John 10:11, but yet clearly, Jesus makes Peter the shepherd of his church in John 21:15-17, “Feed my lambs, shepherd my sheep, feed my sheep.”
Jesus is the light of the world, John 9:5. But yet, we’re told in Matthew 5:14, that we’re all “the light of the world”

YoursTrue The word "Peter" means ROCK...Jesus changed Simons name to "ROCK"! The metaphor of being the foundation of Jesus’ church in no way takes away from Jesus as literally the one ultimate foundation.
Ephesians 2:19-20, St. Paul says that the church is “built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets. Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone.”
Ephesians 2:20
built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.

YoursTrue The Church is BUILT ON ROCK! It will never ever fail! God is the BUILDER it will never ever fail!
The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church is that Church... 2000 years old with linage going back to Peter and thus Jesus!

The Catholic Church will never fail...
Hebrews 11:10
For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God.

1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

The future as prophecy is unfolded will be the teller.

 

[YoursTrue]

YoursTrue good question.. simple answer is; to each is given; the more given the more is expected! BUT... ALL are judged by their love! Don't matter if you are caught up in snake worship if that is what you were born into knowing nothing different! THINK: the North American Indian were Pagan they knew nothing about Jesus but they all knew how to love or hate!
The Sheep are judged saved because they LOVE! Matthew 25 The Goats have "Faith ALONE" they are judged Satan's children! CAN'T....

YoursTrue cant' believe in Jesus if you are never told about Jesus!

And to know the truth about Jesus is important. (Did Jesus bow down before idols?) (Did Peter?) (Did the apostles?)

 

[YoursTrue]

...
YoursTrue cant' believe in Jesus if you are never told about Jesus!

And that is true.

 

[YoursTrue]

He's identified as being the "Cornerstone", whereas Peter's name in Aramaic that Jesus gave him means "rock" or "stone".

Naturally there are going to be different interpretations. Jesus spoke about a rock at Matthew 7:24: "Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:"
Benson Bible Commentary rightly comments,
(8) True godliness rests only upon Christ, and therefore always remains invincible.

 

[metis]

Common sense by reading and understanding the scriptures would tell someone that Mary had other children by Joseph

Again, that can be questioned, as the word "brother" in Greek also can refer to male cousins. Matter of fact, one of Jesus' "brothers" is actually of a different Mary.

Again, not a biggy, imo.

 

[YoursTrue]

Again, that can be questioned, as the word "brother" in Greek also can refer to male cousins. Matter of fact, one of Jesus' "brothers" is actually of a different Mary.

Again, not a biggy, imo.

Not a biggie, you say, as I reread your comment? Not a biggie to say that Mary and Joseph never had sexual relations in marriage or other children. Not a biggie??

 

[YoursTrue]

Again, that can be questioned, as the word "brother" in Greek also can refer to male cousins. Matter of fact, one of Jesus' "brothers" is actually of a different Mary.

Again, not a biggy, imo.

I would imagine those people venerating Mary as the perpetual virgin might think it is a biggie.

 

[metis]

I would imagine those people venerating Mary as the perpetual virgin might think it is a biggie.

Their choice.

 

[YoursTrue]

Their choice.

It's your church's choice to misinterpret the scriptures. But then talk more about Peter, the rock or cliff or rockmass. Also you think not a biggie? (I guess...)

 

[YoursTrue]

Their choice.

Oh and another thing. Like I say, been reading that book about Christian Atheists. Many go to church, perform rituals, yet don't believe Jesus or Moses even existed Interesting book.

 

[metis]

Not a biggie, you say, as I reread your comment? Not a biggie to say that Mary and Joseph never had sexual relations in marriage or other children. Not a biggie??

Were you there to see them? Pervert!

Again, I don't lose any sleep over this as so much in the scriptures simply cannot be verified. Frankly, I'm pretty sure they did have sexual relations, but then I wasn't there to observe, nor does it really change anything important one way or the other.

My view: Whatever happened, happened. What is important to me is the basic point of what Jesus taught, such as in the Sermon On the Mount.

 

[metis]

Oh and another thing. Like I say, been reading that book about Christian Atheists. Many go to church, perform rituals, yet don't believe Jesus or Moses even existed Interesting book.

It begs the question why then do they even go to church if that's the case?

 

[metis]

It's your church's choice to misinterpret the scriptures.

Oh, so it's your church and/or you that teaches the only right interpretations? Ya, I've seen claims like that before.

 

[YoursTrue]

Oh, so it's your church and/or you that teaches the only right interpretations? Ya, I've seen claims like that before.

Nope, I never said that. But it's certain in my mind that Mary was not the "perpetual virgin." It's certain to me from the scriptures that she had other children after the birth of Jesus. Yup, that's for sure because of various statements, including what I had mentioned at first, that they left Jerusalem without Jesus, realizing somehow he was missing? which you say was their ONLY CHILD, right? That of course in addition to other scriptures with references to brothers and sisters, their placement and the account that states not even his brothers believed him. All that tells me he had (half) brothers and sisters from Mary and Joseph, since Jesus Father was God in heaven.
But here's what I was thinking (about what you think):
I visited the Vatican when we were touring portions of Italy. It was, of course, very interesting. And there, of course (perhaps you've been there) is the statue of Peter with foot worn down because so many kissed it.So here's my question: since you're not sure if Jesus, as described in the scriptures, really existed. What about Peter? Do you think he existed as stated, or maybe you're not sure about that also? After all, to you it's no "biggie" if Mary was or was not the "perpetual virgin," isn't that right? What about Peter? Is that a no biggie to you also, as to whether he was one of Jesus disciples, and yet do you say you believe the church rests on Peter and not Jesus? hmm, just wondering if you think Peter really existed as stated in the Bible, thanks.

 

[YoursTrue]

It begs the question why then do they even go to church if that's the case?

Well, as you probably know and I don't have to teach you some obviously go to church because it's tradition and family connection.

 

[YoursTrue]

YoursTrue good question.. simple answer is; to each is given; the more given the more is expected! BUT... ALL are judged by their love! Don't matter if you are caught up in snake worship if that is what you were born into knowing nothing different! THINK: the North American Indian were Pagan they knew nothing about Jesus but they all knew how to love or hate!
The Sheep are judged saved because they LOVE! Matthew 25 The Goats have "Faith ALONE" they are judged Satan's children! CAN'T....

YoursTrue cant' believe in Jesus if you are never told about Jesus!

But some here who believe they're well-schooled in scriptural matters are not sure if Jesus existed. If a person goes to church and claims to be a Christian but doesn't know or believe if Jesus really existed, what would you say to such a person?