YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Historically, divisions within groups although claiming to have similar encompassing labels have caused big problems. War, torture, death, destruction to state a few.
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metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
You are clearly unaware of the fact that there were oral traditions that were passed down, and even one of the Gospels mentions that there were so much more than it didn't cover. Jerome mentioned this in his commentary on this issue saying that the Church always believed that Mary remained a virgin unto death. Now, whether Jerome was correct I do not know, nor do I get hung up on it.
Bro Rando
Member
[QUOTE="From Moses on up until this very day, the Israelite religion while serving the true God, taught, served and worshipped a single being God named-YHWH(Jehovah)--- FACT--While Jesus attended the Israelite places of worship was taught served and worshipped a single being God named-YHWH(Jehovah) as well as EVERY single bible writer--FACT says no trinity exists, all serving it in their house divided( 34,000) different trinity religions will not stand. Did they miss this simple bible milk-1Corinthians 1:10--Unity of thought( 1 truth) no division( 1 religion)[/QUOTE]
Jesus said to him: “Why do you call Me good? Nobody is good except one, God.” (Mark 10:18)
Read more...
Jesus said to him: “Why do you call Me good? Nobody is good except one, God.” (Mark 10:18)
Read more...
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
So you believe that groups that say they are in the same large classification, such as Buddhism, Christianity, or Judaism for instance, have different subsets within those classifications that will n-e-v-e-r be reconciled, yet these are not cults, is that fair to say about how you size things up?
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
You don't need to get "hung up" on it. Because from the scriptures, Mary did not remain a virgin in perpetuity. That is far clearer than fossils causing someone to believe in the absolute process of evolution via genetic change slowly or quickly leading from fish to -- snakes -- and onward in small increments to apes? You think?
Yes, have a good one.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Jesus condemned certain traditions by religious leaders of the religion he was born into.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Why don't you know if Jerome was correct? Because maybe she was a virgin forever? Or maybe she wasn't. ? Or maybe Jerome wasn't correct about this?
Let me say it differently, for even in the name of Christianity there can be a cult.
I looked up another definition:
Merriam/Webster: a small religious group that is not part of a larger and more accepted religion and that has beliefs regarded by many people as extreme or dangerous
I think the key word here is "extreme or dangerous".
Free dictionary: A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader. and ...Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing."
Perhaps the key words here are "living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian." and "obsessive".
I suppose every religion can have a cult but I wouldn't say that just because there is a difference, it is designated as a cult.
Did that help?
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
To an extent. Thanks.
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
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The Church Jesus established is ONE because God is ONE!
The Church Jesus established is Holy because God is Holy!
The Church Jesus established is Catholic Because God is everywhere he is "Universal"!
The Church Jesus established is Apostolic to this day his CHURCH has roots going back 2000 years to the Apostles!
Only one Church today has these four (4) marks, it can only be the One Church found today with the Pope as head; representing Jesus until he returns, he is the Chief Shepherd of God' Holy Flock!
YoursTrue Jesus loves his bride.. He is ALWAYS with his body to the very end of time!
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.
Matthew 28:20 Teach them to do everything I have commanded you. “And remember that I am always with you until the end of time.”
YoursTrue if Jesus is ALWAYS WITH his Holy Church to the end of time he will not be with the Church you mentioned! There is NO need for man made Churches! Jesus built his on ROCK not on sand! IF...
YoursTrue if you say Jesus failed to establish his Church you are saying: Jesus is a fool!
Matthew 7:26
But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Jesus is the Rock upon which the true church is founded.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
He's identified as being the "Cornerstone", whereas Peter's name in Aramaic that Jesus gave him means "rock" or "stone".
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
, post: 7503641, member: 63290"]Jesus is the Rock upon which the true church is founded.[/QUOTE]
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YoursTrue Right .. The Church is founded on ROCK! This means the Church Jesus established On ROCK will never ever fail! This means the "One Holy Catholic Church is Apostolic having roots going back to the Apostles"! This also means the Church Jesus established Does NOT need to be re-Formed!
All the thousands of Man Made churches deny the Church Jesus established never failed, all want to Re-Form it, all want to build anew the church Jesus established On Rock! As IF....
YoursTrue as if God needed all these men to come to his rescue and build a church that Jesus could not hold onto!
To say different to say the Church Jesus established failed is to call Jesus a fool!
Matthew 7:26
But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.
Jesus is ALWAYS with his Church to the very end of time!
Matthew 28:20 Teach them to do everything I have commanded you. “And remember that I am always with you until the end of time.”
Satan did NOT overpower Jesus, Satan did NOT take the Body of Jesus from Jesus! Jesus is ALWAYS with the ONLY Church he established 2000 years ago.. This means he is NOT it means he CANNOT be with yours!
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
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metis I hope all is well... yes you are right.. BUT...
It is very easy to show them the The Church Jesus built on ROCK will never ever fail.. Precisely because it is built on ROCK!
There is NO need for the thousands of man made churches to re-Form or Build Anew the Church because Jesus built on ROCK it will never fail! ALL...
metis all protestant churches Every One...MUST reject any idea that Jesus' church never failed otherwise there is NO need for them to re-Form the Church!
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
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YoursTrue Right .. The Church is founded on ROCK! This means the Church Jesus established On ROCK will never ever fail! This means the "One Holy Catholic Church is Apostolic having roots going back to the Apostles"! This also means the Church Jesus established Does NOT need to be re-Formed!
All the thousands of Man Made churches deny the Church Jesus established never failed, all want to Re-Form it, all want to build anew the church Jesus established On Rock! As IF....
YoursTrue as if God needed all these men to come to his rescue and build a church that Jesus could not hold onto!
To say different to say the Church Jesus established failed is to call Jesus a fool!
Matthew 7:26
But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.
Jesus is ALWAYS with his Church to the very end of time!
Matthew 28:20 Teach them to do everything I have commanded you. “And remember that I am always with you until the end of time.”
Satan did NOT overpower Jesus, Satan did NOT take the Body of Jesus from Jesus! Jesus is ALWAYS with the ONLY Church he established 2000 years ago.. This means he is NOT it means he CANNOT be with yours![/QUOTE]
So is Jesus the rock?
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Yes, well we all have differences, don't we. If I thought you were with the church built on Jesus as the foundation, I'd join you. BUT -- for several reasons I don't. To follow Jesus is a very serious thing.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
May I ask you a question, DK20. Perhaps there are those that claim to be a member of a particular church, thinking that is the true church, but some within may question whether Jesus really existed as written, or even if he existed at all - what would you then say, how do you feel about that, Dogknox20? Would that person really know Jesus, would he be accepted by Jesus, the Rock and foundation of the true, real church founded on himself? (also for @metis if he cares to respond as well)
Jesus did teach his followers to say the following prayer -- "Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed by thy name. Thy kingdom come -- thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven..."
1 John 5:10 .... "Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son."
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Thank you, metis, for your response which I shall go over as carefully as possible. And I'm sure with your level of expertise, one discussion would not cover enough ground. Of course in order to believe, as Peter did, it would be helpful to know and believe that Jesus really existed as written, wouldn't it?
Matthew 16 is noteworthy:
13When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, He questioned His disciples: “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”14They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”15“But what about you?” Jesus asked. “Who do you say I am?”16Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”17Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah!b For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”20Then He admonished the disciples not to tell anyone that He was the Christ.
Romans 9:33 says "As it is written: “See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who believes in him will never be put to shame.”
1 Corinthians 3:11 - For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
(The Greek and Aramaic can be discussed in future posts...)
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Since it is an important issue within cerrtain religions as if to say she is (was) the ETERNAL VIRGIN, whether one wants to say she is worshipped or venerated is another discussion, but for honest-hearted persons it is important to recognize what the Bible says. Common sense by reading and understanding the scriptures would tell someone that Mary had other children by Joseph. And of course there is the question of translation. Jesus also said that because of tradition the word of God was subverted, or something like that, didn't he? There is, of course, oral traditions within some religions that Jesus was not the son of God, was not the Messiah, among other teachings.
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
So is Jesus the rock?[/QUOTE]
I reply...
The Rock is Peter..... The Apostles are the Foundation and the Church is Built on Rock by Jesus the master builder!
Both the CHURCH is the Body of Jesus, the CHURCH is built on Jesus! Christians are the body of The Church, the Church is built up by Christians!
1 Corinthians 3:11
For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Notice also Paul in 1 Corinthians 3:10 is saying that there are others, besides Jesus, who are building up the church
10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care.
YoursTrue All Christians in some way participate in building up the church.
Peter tells us that Jesus is “the living stone rejected by men” BUT... you also
1 Peter 2:5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
Jesus is the good shepherd in John 10:11, but yet clearly, Jesus makes Peter the shepherd of his church in John 21:15-17, “Feed my lambs, shepherd my sheep, feed my sheep.”
Jesus is the light of the world, John 9:5. But yet, we’re told in Matthew 5:14, that we’re all “the light of the world”
YoursTrue The word "Peter" means ROCK...Jesus changed Simons name to "ROCK"! The metaphor of being the foundation of Jesus’ church in no way takes away from Jesus as literally the one ultimate foundation.
Ephesians 2:19-20, St. Paul says that the church is “built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets. Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone.”
Ephesians 2:20
built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.
YoursTrue The Church is BUILT ON ROCK! It will never ever fail! God is the BUILDER it will never ever fail!
The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church is that Church... 2000 years old with linage going back to Peter and thus Jesus!
The Catholic Church will never fail...
Hebrews 11:10
For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God.
1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.