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Featured Which one is a Cult? A or B?

Discussion in 'Same Faith Debates' started by Bro Rando, May 9, 2021.

  1. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Exactly, but there are some who really get hung up over this, especially the JW's.
     
  2. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    You surely know how Adonai is translated. And you probably also know that the Hebrew letters for Adonai and the Name of God (sometimes said to be the tetragrammaton or four Hebrew letters) are not the same.
     
  3. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    I surely don't. But just like John is translated differently and people recognize it, it's the same way with yeshua or Jesus, etc. I'm so glad I didn't study anything with you. You're either subterfuging or you are just not comprehending. And I think it's the former.
     
  4. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    The problem with this whole line of thinking, is that it is NOT referring to the Messiah handing the kingdom over to anyone. This is talking about mankind handing control of this earthly kingdom back over to God.

    The Messiah will rule his kingdom forever. There is no end to his kingdom. Luke 1:33

    God put mankind in charge of this earthly kingdom until he returns. Psalms 8:4-8 (note verse 6) Currently we have free will and can make our own decisions. But when God returns, man will no longer be able to decide things. Man will be judged and face his destiny - good or bad.

    So the "he" and "him" in those verses is referring to man.
     
    #224 TrueBeliever37, Aug 3, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2021
  5. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    It is true no man can see an invisible Spirit. But the Messiah was the image of the invisible God. God was dwelling in that body. 2 Corinthians 5:19 ; Colossians 2:9

    That was why he said if you have SEEN ME you have SEEN the Father. John 14:9

    So he was God. (Not a Trinity, but the one and only God dwelling in a fleshly body)

    ...feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. Acts 20:28

    ... My Lord and my God John 20:28
     
  6. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    So you think Jesus and the Father looked alike when Jesus said what he did at John 14:9?
     
  7. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    The J comes from the original Hebrew pronounced as a Y sound. Y sound in Hebrew, generally a J sound in English.thus, the city is calledJerusalem in English (usually) and not Yerushalayim. But if you said Yerushalayim even if you spoke English, I would not have a problem with that.
    Seems Catholics and some others don't like to translate YHWH or YHVH properly. But hide it by going with the wrong translation, saying Lord, lord, or LORD. Some Bibles have footnotes explaining this.
     
  8. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Can't you even read and comprehend what I had written? Why do you so often do this?
     
  9. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    :rolleyes: See above.

    You do not know what you are talking about as all Catholic Bibles contain footnotes to explain such matters.

    Your dishonesty here is appalling, and it's not just on this matter but even with discussions on the ToE that you persistently obfuscate. Jesus said that he is "the way, Truth, and the light", and yet you just seemingly cannot deal with the "Truth", sorry to say.
     
  10. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    We're done, and maybe try and do some studying.
     
  11. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    The Father is an invisible Spirit. So what does invisible look like to you? The Father was the one dwelling in that body. So that body was the image of the invisible God.

    Note: If it meant image in the way you seem to think, then the image would have to be invisible also, because God is invisible.

    It's like I have told you many times. He was both the Father and the Son. The Father is an eternal Spirit, and the Son was the fleshly body the Father took on. (But Father and Son are not two different persons)

    Did you read the verses I sent previously? that said - God was in Messiah, reconciling the world unto himself 2 Corinthians 5:19 and the fullness of the Godhead dwelt in that body. Colossians 2:9
     
    #231 TrueBeliever37, Aug 4, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2021
  12. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    Ok at this point I don't understand you when you say the body of Jesus was the image of the invisible God. 1John 4:15 says, New International Version
    If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God.
     
  13. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    That body was God's body. It was his image. Mankind is made in the image of God. He actually was the image of the invisible God.
     
  14. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    Jesus prayed to the One he could not see. That person was in heaven. The famous prayer goes, "Our father who art in heaven..." If Jesus was God in the flesh, he wouldn't direct prayer to his father in heaven.
     
  15. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    I do acknowledge that body was the Son of God. But the Spirit dwelling in that body was the Father. God being a Spirit didn't have a physical body. God overshadowed the virgin Mary and made himself a fleshly body to dwell in and sacrifice for sin. That means the Spirit was the Father of that body. So, the Messiah was both Father and Son. The Father (the eternal Spirit) was dwelling in the Son (the fleshly body).

    Hence why he made statements like:

    I and my Father are one.

    If you have seen me you have seen the Father.

    Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.

    Unless you believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.

    I am the alpha and omega, the beginning and the end.

    No one knows who the Father is but the son, and no one knows who the Son is but the Father, and he to whomsoever he reveals him.
    etc.
     
    #235 TrueBeliever37, Aug 7, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2021
  16. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    You can believe what you want. But you can't explain why he was called God all those times I asked you about.
     
  17. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    You must realize that the Bible says TWO married persons are one, don't you?
     
  18. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    I will get to that. Yes, it can be explained bit before I even go into that, we have to go over a few things. Such as two persons who are married are spoken of as one. Remember also that Jesus spoke to the Father, and there was the time that the Father spoke from heaven, calling Jesus his Son. Matthew 3:17 - "And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." Now clearly Jesus was not speaking to himself. Also Jesus prayed to his father in heaven, not a spirit within himself.
     
  19. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    We have covered this already. When you see a husband you don't see the wife do you? Whereas he said if you have seen me you have seen the Father.
     
    #239 TrueBeliever37, Aug 8, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2021
  20. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    No he wasn't speaking to himself. The flesh was speaking to the Spirit. The Spirit fills heaven and earth. The Spirit also dwelt in that body.

    Being as one is not the same as actually being one. When you see one spouse you don't see the other do you? Whereas he said if you have seen me you have seen the Father.

    You keep saying you will answer my questions. When? How about at least trying to answer some.
     
    #240 TrueBeliever37, Aug 8, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2021
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