Which one is a Cult? A or B?

[YoursTrue]

These are not obstacles in normative Judaism since halacha (Jewish Law) puts life and health over ritual observance.

Generally speaking, getting a lamb out of a pit is not a matter of personal health. Neither is a withered hand a life and death situation to be healed on the Sabbath. As you may realize, there was objection to that healing by many. Jesus worked with the Father, rabbinic law did not always agree with the Father's way, as Jesus aptly pointed out. Remember, Jesus said he was one with the father, or better yet, he and the Father were one. It is clear that Jesus portrayed the Messiah's perfect role in his ministry on earth. Thank you for your comment.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes, but that is not objectively-derived evidence. For example, exactly how does on know that the Bible was inspired by God but the Bhagavad Gita supposedly is not? Beliefs are all fine & dandy, but "belief" and "evidence" are not synonymous terms.

OTOH, I certainly don't have a problem with us having beliefs. In my case, my belief in Jesus is based on something else, namely a series of "experiences" over two years that led me back to Christianity and to Catholicism in particular, and I believe that these were on the behalf of the Holy Spirit. Could I objectively prove that? No.

Objectively speaking, the ten commandments and more in the scriptures shows that it is written there ARE other gods. The Jewish history of the nation shows there were other gods than the one they were commànded to worship.

 

[metis]

Objectively speaking, the ten commandments and more in the scriptures shows that it is written there ARE other gods. The Jewish history of the nation shows there were other gods than the one they were commànded to worship.

That doesn't relate to what I posted, so why did you repeat yourself?

 

[YoursTrue]

That doesn't relate to what I posted, so why did you repeat yourself?

You brought attention to the idea in one of your posts about other gods. And so I said yes, there certainly are. Since we were talking about the Sabbath, and you somehow decided that the Jewish (not of course the Catholic) sabbath goes from Friday evening to Saturday evening, it brought to mind about Jesus healing on the Sabbath and how many Jews were really upset about this. Because their idea of the Sabbath observance was not in harmony with the Messiah's idea of what the commandment was. So you bring up an interesting point about Jesus, the Jews, the Law, the Sabbath.
The first commandment (NKJV) says, "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me."
So, pertaining to another post, yes, the first commandment acknowledges and states that the house of Israel should have "no other gods before" that particular God who gave the commandments to Moses.
Thanks for bringing it up. It's very interesting.

 

[metis]

...it brought to mind about Jesus healing on the Sabbath and how many Jews were really upset about this. Because their idea of the Sabbath observance was not in harmony with the Messiah's idea of what the commandment was.

And I clarified this on a previous post whereas I said that Judaism recognizes that health & life itself to take priority over ritual, so why did you post the above?

The first commandment (NKJV) says, "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me."
So, pertaining to another post, yes, the first commandment acknowledges and states that the house of Israel should have "no other gods before" that particular God who gave the commandments to Moses.

The Bible is a subjective source, not an objective source, as different religions have different takes on this.

Thanks for bringing it up. It's very interesting.

Same to you, and enjoy the rest of the weekend.

 

[YoursTrue]

And I clarified this on a previous post whereas I said that Judaism recognizes that health & life itself to take priority over ritual, so why did you post the above?

The Bible is a subjective source, not an objective source, as different religions have different takes on this.

Well are you breaking the Jewish normative sabbath today? And since you bring it up about breaking one of the ten commandments re the Sabbath, have they been abolished in the Catholic faith? Why aren't Catholics or Protestants observing the same day as the Jews? Surely regardless of subjective source you bring up, there must be a reason.

 

[YoursTrue]

And I clarified this on a previous post whereas I said that Judaism recognizes that health & life itself to take priority over ritual, so why did you post the above?

The Bible is a subjective source, not an objective source, as different religions have different takes on this.

Same to you, and enjoy the rest of the weekend.

There is no doubt in the Bible that Jesus was accused of breaking the Sabbath.

 

[YoursTrue]

And I clarified this on a previous post whereas I said that Judaism recognizes that health & life itself to take priority over ritual, so why did you post the above?

The Bible is a subjective source, not an objective source, as different religions have different takes on this.

Same to you, and enjoy the rest of the weekend.

We were talking about gods and religion. So yes, the Jews were notified that they were not to worship other gods. That is one of the Ten Commandments. Subjective or objective, that's what it says. Furthermore about the Sabbath and interpretation, here is an account about that. Luke 13 brings out about the time when he healed a woman on the Sabbath. Notice:

Luke 13:14 But the synagogue leader was indignant that Jesus had healed on the Sabbath. “There are six days for work,” he told the crowd. “So come and be healed on those days and not on the Sabbath.” verse 15 gives Jesus' reaction.

 

[YoursTrue]

You used John 1:1 to prove you think the Son was in heaven before he came to earth? But yet you are not accepting the very verse you sent saying the word was God.

Acts 20:28 ...to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

You didn't respond about why Thomas declared him to be his God. John 20:28

You didn't respond about why the Messiah let people worship him.


You are asking your questions as if I am a Trinitarian. I never said anything about two persons being equal. The Spirit is greater than the flesh. You think it is two different persons - not me. I think it is flesh and Spirit involved. Flesh praying to the Spirit, not one person praying to another.

Not all translations accept the wording at John 1 to say that God was with God. Or the Word was God and with God. Either way, however, there are 2 there and not 3.

 

[YoursTrue]

Ok - But did you compare the verses? Yes John 15:26 says whom I will send unto you from the Father. But then John 14:26 says whom the Father will send

You have a problem here because you say they are two different individuals.





First you say one is a man, and the other is God. Then you say they aren't different in the sense we think of as different. How can I even discuss it with you when you flip flop around so much?

You say the Messiah is just a man. Then you ignored several verses I sent showing he is God.
Such as:

John 20:28 where Thomas called him his God

Acts 20:28 - feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

The Messiah was not "just a man." As the foretold one, Jesus demonstrated God his Father's personality. Remember when he was baptized, you remember at what age he was?

 

[YoursTrue]

And I clarified this on a previous post whereas I said that Judaism recognizes that health & life itself to take priority over ritual, so why did you post the above?

The Bible is a subjective source, not an objective source, as different religions have different takes on this.

By the way, the Bible has one take on this. Since you're so much into religion, you might want to think about the eventual division geographically and why this happened of the 12 tribes. 10 tribes were in the north eventually, and 2 in the southern part of Israel. So by 'take,' it is written about the history. Even the Catholic Bible has the history there in what is often called the "Old Testament."

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Would a wife say if you've seen her you have seen her husband?

Not if she is in her right mind.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

So you think Jesus is the father but couldn't get rid of his flesh until his flesh was killed? Now answer this. Is the father the son?

Like I have said over and over - the Father is the Spirit, and the Son is the flesh. Spirit and flesh are NOT the same.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

The Messiah was not "just a man." As the foretold one, Jesus demonstrated God his Father's personality. Remember when he was baptized, you remember at what age he was?

You reply but don't actually answer the questions. And sometimes your reply doesn't even make sense in regards to the question. This reply at post 190 shows a prime example. Consider what we had been talking about and then look at your response.

Now you are saying the Messiah was not just a man. So explain what he was.

 

[YoursTrue]

I have already answered why he prayed. Sorry if you are unable to understand the explanation. It is something God has to let someone see. Matthew 11:25-27

FYI - I wasn't saying the eternal Spirit doesn't also fill the heavens and the earth.

Why do you want Metis involved since you don't believe his view either? I think Metis believes in the Trinity while we don't. Whereas I believe the Messiah was the one and only God manifest in the flesh. And you believe the Messiah was just a man. Please let me know if any of these statements are not accurate?

Metis had not delineated his viewpoint about the trinity, why he does or does not believe it. I was interested in his idea.
Jesus was not an ordinary man. He was conceived by holy spirit in the womb of a person who was a virgin. His Father was in heaven, and could maneuver genes as He sees fit. He did so by holy spirit.

 

[YoursTrue]

You reply but don't actually answer the questions. And your reply doesn't even make sense in regards to the question.

Yes it does. God is not flesh and blood. Jesus was a grown man, not a baby when he was baptized. You could say it a million times, but Jesus said he was the son of God. The Son inherits certain characteristics. You could say it again and again that Jesus is one of 3 personages each equal to the other, but even from the conception, it's not true.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Yes it does. God is not flesh and blood. Jesus was a grown man, not a baby when he was baptized. You could say it a million times, but Jesus said he was the son of God. The Son inherits certain characteristics. You could say it again and again that Jesus is one of 3 personages each equal to the other, but even from the conception, it's not true.

He was the son of God. But he also said if you have seen me you have seen the Father. He was both Father and Son - because he was both flesh and Spirit. The Spirit was dwelling in that body. (The Father was dwelling in the Son)

When you have trouble answering, you keep resorting back to implying I believe in a Trinity, when I have told you over and over I don't.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Metis had not delineated his viewpoint about the trinity, why he does or does not believe it. I was interested in his idea.
Jesus was not an ordinary man. He was conceived by holy spirit in the womb of a person who was a virgin. His Father was in heaven, and could maneuver genes as He sees fit. He did so by holy spirit.

The Father is the Holy Spirit according to Matthew 1:18

The Father is the only God according to 1 Corinthians 8:6
God is a Spirit according to John 4:24
There is only one Spirit according to Ephesians 4:4

So if you believe the Holy Spirit is a different Spirit than the Father, then you have a problem, because there is only one Spirit.

 

[YoursTrue]

He was the son of God. But he also said if you have seen me you have seen the Father. He was both Father and Son - because he was both flesh and Spirit. The Spirit was dwelling in that body. (The Father was dwelling in the Son)

When you have trouble answering, you keep resorting back to implying I believe in a Trinity, when I have told you over and over I don't.

OK, I'm sorry. I apologize, since I can't read every post. Perhaps we can talk a little more after I read ALL your posts on this subject. Thank you. (Sorry about that...)

 

[YoursTrue]

The Father is the Holy Spirit according to Matthew 1:18

The Father is the only God according to 1 Corinthians 8:6
God is a Spirit according to John 4:24
There is only one Spirit according to Ephesians 4:4

So if you believe the Holy Spirit is a different Spirit than the Father, then you have a problem, because there is only one Spirit.

OK, which translation are you using? Obviously not all translations say 'spirit' at Matthew 1:18. The King James early said ghost. And so we have to figure what it (spirit or ghost) means. And since you are so into the Bible, which is good, I hope you have the consideration to discuss this peacefully and carefully.