Which one doesn't belong?

[savagewind]

I have heard it taught that the Attributes of God are Love, Justice, Wisdom and Power.

The first three exist on a different plane than the fourth one does. There is no real evidence for love, justice and wisdom. But the Universe is evidence of power.

Might people who teach that humankind is made in the image of God's Power be Wrong?

Is it OK to teach something that is wrong about God?

Can someone who believes that teaching tell us how people possess God's power as a human attribute?

 

[Robert.Evans]

I have heard it taught that the Attributes of God are Love, Justice, Wisdom and Power.

The first three exist on a different plane than the fourth one does. There is no real evidence for love, justice and wisdom. But the Universe is evidence of power.

agree...understand, no real evidence. okay

Might people who teach that humankind is made in the image of God's Power be Wrong?

Who teaches that? Made in his Image I think it says. Though that might be thought of perhaps, though I don't know why you would. So probably wrong.

Is it OK to teach something that is wrong about God?

No.

Can someone who believes that teaching tell us how people possess God's power as a human attribute?

Not sure I understand that. How do we possess God's power? I'm not sure how you would answer it. To me it is not necessary to know. We are created in his Image, and therefore must reflect, in some way, his power.

 

[Saint_of_Me]

Is it OK to teach something that is wrong about God?

Sure it is. And, in fact, you would do better to take this a step further and teach people that God is simply a silly superstition. One that does far more harm than good and limits us very often from realizing our true potential.

It's sort of like Richard Dawkins says, "The problem I have with organized religion is that it teaches people to be satisfied without knowing the answers."

 

[Robert.Evans]

Sure it is. And, in fact, you would do better to take this a step further and teach people that God is simply a silly superstition. One that does far more harm than good and limits us very often from realizing our true potential.

It's sort of like Richard Dawkins says, "The problem I have with organized religion is that it teaches people to be satisfied without knowing the answers."

Well you stick with your own Dawkins religion then and your own superstitions. Now doubt you think that luck is a good answer for everything. Some of us, however, are enlightened, and will not fall for such melodramatic claptrap

 

[Saint_of_Me]

Well you stick with your own Dawkins religion then and your own superstitions. Now doubt you think that luck is a good answer for everything. Some of us, however, are enlightened, and will not fall for such melodramatic claptrap

I have no superstitions, I am a scientist.

What are you speaking of when you say that I think "luck" is a good answer? Are you referring to the origin of Life? And Evolution? If so, I will be glad to debate you formally on Evolution any time you desire. just say the word.

And Dr. Dawkins is not religious. He too is a man of science, and offers and exposes ALL of his ideas to be proven wrong. Unlike, you know, religious folks who can prove nothing. I will also be glad to discuss with you ANYthing from Dawkins that you feel is wrong.

Claptrap? No, that is the province of Religion. Absurd notions like dead men rising form the grave and moving into a fictitious Heaven with their Daddy. Or fortress walls being destroyed from trumpet blasts. Or a man who thinks he is in God's Grace offering up his virgin daughters for gang rape to an angry mob so as to spare a couple of fictional angels.

You call yourself enlightened? Tell me how this is so? And what you know that I do not. Then allow me to comment and debunk what you think is true. Come on, you were the first here to make an ad hominem attack. So how about manning-up and engaging in some give and take? let us discuss for all too see!

I will be waiting. Thanks!


http://www.atheismresource.com/2010/the-harms-of-religion

 

[Saint_of_Me]

agree...understand, no real evidence. okay

Who teaches that? Made in his Image I think it says. Though that might be thought of perhaps, though I don't know why you would. So probably wrong.

No.

Not sure I understand that. How do we possess God's power? I'm not sure how you would answer it. To me it is not necessary to know. We are created in his Image, and therefore must reflect, in some way, his power.

His Will?

Please.

Of whom are you speaking?

Your fictitious god has done nothing for this world.

Let me ask you: show me ONE way in which God is present in today's world. ONE reason why this world is not 100% EXACTLY as it would be, right now, if there was in fact NO God. If we were completely on our own, if we Evolved as Science claims, if there were no gods or angels, if everything was purely material and random. Show me or tell me just ONE sign right now that even HINTS that this is not so. That there is a God who even exists and is remotely worthy of worship.

Clearly, God cannot intervene in daily affairs. Even for his most devout. Or should I say his most deluded. Why do 5000 kids die of malaria every day? Why are the most religious countries--and in my country, the most religious states--also the poorest and worse off? LOL. Why won't your God help his people who pray to him the most. And then conversely why to the countries with the highest percentage of atheists also enjoy the highest quality of life? (If you cannot look this up yourself I will be glad to provide links).

Clearly, if your god is impotent. And if he Could intervene and chooses not to, then he is not Good. Thus, either way, why worship that?

 

[Robert.Evans]

His Will?

Please.

Of whom are you speaking?

Do you not have an education?

Your fictitious god has done nothing for this world.

My obvious God is this world. You cannot see the forest for the trees. Try opening your mind and understand what it is that you argue against.

Let me ask you: show me ONE way in which God is present in today's world.

God is this world, God is everything. You misunderstand and set up false strawman arguments. Are you open minded enough to discuss? probably not. You think you already know. You have no reason.

ONE reason why this world is not 100% EXACTLY as it would be, right now, if there was in fact NO God. If we were completely on our own, if we Evolved as Science claims, if there were no gods or angels, if everything was purely material and random. Show me or tell me just ONE sign right now that even HINTS that this is not so. That there is a God who even exists and is remotely worthy of worship.

If you can accept that luck, as that is what you appear to be saying, is sufficient to bring into being, then there is no discussing anything is there. Complicated complex things do not assemble themselves. We are taught and shown that in every facet of life. Yet when you deal with bigger things, the universe, apparently that will do as an answer

Clearly, God cannot intervene in daily affairs.

God is daily affairs

Even for his most devout. Or should I say his most deluded.

You are deluded, that is why you think luck is the answer. Go worship your god.

Why do 5000 kids die of malaria every day?

Because God wills it.

Why are the most religious countries--and in my country, the most religious states--also the poorest and worse off? LOL. Why won't your God help his people who pray to him the most. And then conversely why to the countries with the highest percentage of atheists also enjoy the highest quality of life? (If you cannot look this up yourself I will be glad to provide links).

God is not about material things. Even a child could work out that from jsut a cursory reading of the NT

Clearly, if your god is impotent. And if he Could intervene and chooses not to, then he is not Good. Thus, either way, why worship that?

Did you mean all powerful??
what does all powerful or good mean to you? To have freedom or locked in a padded room where you can't hurt anyone? You sound like a child complaining of their father.
We are the thing you speak about, evolving, developing, good and the evil. Tell me why luck is a better answer than Intelligence for bringing into being a universe/multiverse. Tell me why you feel the need to tell me you don't believe and then further that error by showing you don't understand the concept of God in the first place by this diatribe.

 

[Robert.Evans]

I have no superstitions, I am a scientist.

haha...should I bow down and worship you?I have no superstitions either.
[QUOTE]
What are you speaking of when you say that I think "luck" is a good answer? Are you referring to the origin of Life? And Evolution? If so, I will be glad to debate you formally on Evolution any time you desire. just say the word.
[/QUOTE]
Either Intelligence brings into being everything or it doesn't. You are saying it doesn't as you don't believe in it, so, you must believe luck is the answer....your god.

And Dr. Dawkins is not religious. He too is a man of science, and offers and exposes ALL of his ideas to be proven wrong. Unlike, you know, religious folks who can prove nothing. I will also be glad to discuss with you ANYthing from Dawkins that you feel is wrong.

Dawkins is a fraud and a liar. He changes his words depending on who he speaks of. And he does not say, not in a public argument anyway, that he has proven anyway. He might in the dark recesses of his religious mind however.
You don't think he is religious? Haha. He does nothign different than any other religion and makes money out of it as a millionairE while other people don't have basic medical care and starve to death. He pedals the word of his god, has his saviour in his tomb, preaches against other gods and sets us his natural god in place of it, a god to which you have to tythe through books and gifts. Think again. He also lives by faith as he cannot prove that he is right.

Claptrap? No, that is the province of Religion.

I agree, including Dawkins religion.

Absurd notions like dead men rising form the grave

Never heard of paramedics??

and moving into a fictitious Heaven

Prove it. I'll wait.

with their Daddy.

facetious comment, and plain silly. Yet you are a scientist?

Or fortress walls being destroyed from trumpet blasts. Or a man who thinks he is in God's Grace offering up his virgin daughters for gang rape to an angry mob so as to spare a couple of fictional angels.

The angels were men. What would you have done? Tell me.

You call yourself enlightened? Tell me how this is so? And what you know that I do not.

It would seem to be obvious. We have a subject here you know nothing about. I take it you have been a Christian.

Then allow me to comment and debunk what you think is true.

No, what YOU think is a lie. You would have to prove it to be able to say that.

Come on, you were the first here to make an ad hominem attack. So how about manning-up and engaging in some give and take? let us discuss for all too see!

You were the first, not me.

I will be waiting. Thanks!

The harms of religion? Why not look at the harms of atheism...there has been aplenty. Clean your own doorstep Mr Religious before you worry about others

 

[Saint_of_Me]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


I tell ya, Ol' Yahweh. What a douche!


http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm

 

[Robert.Evans]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


I tell ya, Ol' Yahweh. What a douche!


http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm

I stopped on ''kill witches'' which is incorrect.

You are trying to understand something that way? You will not do it. Do you omit science because the atoms, molecules or cells of a man kill another? Consider your own evil inventions.

But I think you will find your link is the god of this aeon and man, NOT the God that you are thinking about. Always pays to know the subject you are going to argue first.

Anyway, where is your answer. I want to know how it is you worship this ''natural-luck-god''. How does that work? I'll wait.

 

[Robert.Evans]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


I tell ya, Ol' Yahweh. What a douche!


http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm

What about the evil of man?

Wars:
WWII
Iraq
Afghanistan

Atrocities in war

rape
murder
stealing

Atrocities in science

thalidomide children
chemical warfare
atoms bombs
drugs

Atrocities in society

rich and poor
people in doorways


What about worrying about all those things? They are the same things they did then. The OT and Yisrael is an example to the world. Have we learnt anything? NO!
Your answer to that is to rely on luck, blame god childishly and carry on doing the same with your head held proudly high.

 

[Robert.Evans]

You want to discuss Dawkins the fraud?

He says that the question of God is a question for science. It is not.
There are, I think, only two answers.
1/ He exists. If he does, he says you will not see me- he is invisible. Therefore there will be no conclusive scientific material evidence
2/He doesn't. Therefore, no evidence.

So Dawkins' argument is a dumb non-existent argument only for those who think they can answer it and can't and also his gullible follows that fill his coffers.

 

[Saint_of_Me]

What about the evil of man?

Wars:
WWII
Iraq
Afghanistan

Atrocities in war

rape
murder
stealing

Atrocities in science

thalidomide children
chemical warfare
atoms bombs
drugs

Atrocities in society

rich and poor
people in doorways


What about worrying about all those things? They are the same things they did then. The OT and Yisrael is an example to the world. Have we learnt anything? NO!
Your answer to that is to rely on luck, blame god childishly and carry on doing the same with your head held proudly high.

So what, what's your point? IN fact, you helped make mine from an earlier post. When I said God was either impotent for not intervening in all the world's atrocities, or a coward and just plain amoral if he CAN intervene but has chosen not to. So either way, why worship.

You also bolstered my previous point about the world being exactly as it should be, would be, if there were NO God. And I asked you to kindly provide only ONE little piece of evidence or sign that God is here. Or real. Or exists. Or ever has. But you have not, you CAN not. You are left with the lone, tired, lame Christian retort to this challenge: "It's true because my bible tells me so!"

I could post a whole page of wars fought in the name of religion or god. But I won't. We all know about them. So your argument has basically boiled down to "Hey, us religious fanatics aren't theonly ones who kill people. Atheists do too!"

Sure they do. But this begs the question, again. What good religion? What good god, if in most instances the best defense one of their apologists can mount is, "But you guys do it too!"

 

[Saint_of_Me]

You want to discuss Dawkins the fraud?

He says that the question of God is a question for science. It is not.
There are, I think, only two answers.
1/ He exists. If he does, he says you will not see me- he is invisible. Therefore there will be no conclusive scientific material evidence
2/He doesn't. Therefore, no evidence.

So Dawkins' argument is a dumb non-existent argument only for those who think they can answer it and can't and also his gullible follows that fill his coffers.

Are you familiar with Carl Sagan's "dragon in my garage" parable?

 

[Saint_of_Me]

You want to discuss Dawkins the fraud?

He says that the question of God is a question for science. It is not.
There are, I think, only two answers.
1/ He exists. If he does, he says you will not see me- he is invisible. Therefore there will be no conclusive scientific material evidence
2/He doesn't. Therefore, no evidence.

So Dawkins' argument is a dumb non-existent argument only for those who think they can answer it and can't and also his gullible follows that fill his coffers.

Are you familiar with Carl Sagan's "Dragon in my Garage" parable?

He used it often to show how religious zealots who claim the existence of a God are pretty much impossible to disprove. Oh, rest assured, they never have or never will come remotely close to proving the existence of God. Indeed, as I have shown here, and you have failed here, they cannot even offer ONE sing that he is alive in this world, and the world is not exactly as it should be if all were random chance and we evolved from Soup and there was no god.

But disproving an imaginary entity, no matte how absurd it is, can be difficult. As Carl Sagan explains here, as a metaphor for you guys and your Imaginary Friend.............

http://www.newspeakdictionary.com/st-drag.html

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I have heard it taught that the Attributes of God are Love, Justice, Wisdom and Power.

The first three exist on a different plane than the fourth one does./QUOTE]
Good grief ...

 

[Robert.Evans]

So what, what's your point? IN fact, you helped make mine from an earlier post. When I said God was either impotent for not intervening in all the world's atrocities, or a coward and just plain amoral if he CAN intervene but has chosen not to. So either way, why worship.

You are speaking of the wrong God. As I have said and you have ignored, you have to undrestand the subject before you argue, and you don't.
The universe has complete autonomy from the 'God' you think of. You are now more than welcome to ignore that and remain ignorant.

You also bolstered my previous point about the world being exactly as it should be, would be, if there were NO God. And I asked you to kindly provide only ONE little piece of evidence or sign that God is here. Or real. Or exists. Or ever has. But you have not, you CAN not. You are left with the lone, tired, lame Christian retort to this challenge: "It's true because my bible tells me so!"

Give me one scrap of evidence that luck is a better answer than intelligence when it comes to making something complex and then I will listen. You rely on luck.

I could post a whole page of wars fought in the name of religion or god.

No you couldn't. But you might find it mentioned as they fight over the usual things, land, power, wealth.

But I won't. We all know about them. So your argument has basically boiled down to "Hey, us religious fanatics aren't theonly ones who kill people. Atheists do too!"

Sure they do.

Thank you. So you finally agree you are human too! So why take the high ground?

But this begs the question, again. What good religion? What good god, if in most instances the best defense one of their apologists can mount is, "But you guys do it too!"

It is not a defence, it shows hypocrasy. Clean your own doorstep first.
Anyway, where is your argument? All you do is try to make out your right by pointing out things you don't like. Tell me how your luck is better than my intelligence. I'm still waiting.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Are you familiar with Carl Sagan's "Dragon in my Garage" parable?

He used it often to show how religious zealots who claim the existence of a God are pretty much impossible to disprove.

always looking for excuses just because you don't understand.

Oh, rest assured, they never have or never will come remotely close to proving the existence of God. Indeed, as I have shown here, and you have failed here, they cannot even offer ONE sing that he is alive in this world, and the world is not exactly as it should be if all were random chance and we evolved from Soup and there was no god.

Man does not prove God. You have a strawman argument. We have evidence. You don't seem to have any as you give none. You are a typical atheist, constantly complaining and giving no evidence for a better answer....still waiting by the way.

But disproving an imaginary entity,

Prove it is imaginary! You can't. So why lie to yourself?

no matte how absurd it is, can be difficult. As Carl Sagan explains here, as a metaphor for you guys and your Imaginary Friend.............

Carl Sagan said that it would be easy for God to put a big cross in the sky if he wanted to believe (which is an absurd argument anyway. He could far easily just change the mind!) Turns out there is one in a black-hole.

So how does your luck-god do it? Where does your luck-god come from? Any answers?

 

[psychoslice]

For me personally there is no God, so do what you want to do, after all you have no choice, everything we do is the will of God, that being good or bad.

 

[Robert.Evans]

...

Where is your evidence? We have plenty, witnessed statements, the gospel story painted in the heavens, the planets mapped out through the divine-pattern, the odds of the universe, the largest part of the planet believing,...where is yours? Luck? lol