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Featured Which Messianic verses of Isaiah refer to Christ?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by adrian009, Oct 12, 2018.

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  1. Yes, there are Messianic verses in Isaiah and all refer to Christ

    36.0%
  2. Yes, there are Messianic verses in Isaiah and at least one or more refers to Christ

    20.0%
  3. Yes, there are Messianic verses in Isaiah but none refer to Christ

    28.0%
  4. There are no Messianic verses in Isaiah

    8.0%
  5. I don’t know

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. This poll doesn’t reflect my thoughts

    8.0%
  1. RabbiO

    RabbiO הרב יונה בן זכריה

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    @DustyFeet

    On the chance that you are not aware, just a brief note to let you know that rosends is an Orthodox rabbi.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Well-Known Member

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    Either Daniel was lying in Daniel 12 or the “book” will not be unsealed until the time of the end.Unless the Messiah has come, we cannot be living in that time.

    If Revelation is right you cannot know the new name unless you are the one receiving it, the Messiah.

    Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
    You are contradicting the Bible in order to promote your own agenda. It is ironic that people accuse Baha’is of contradicting the Bible; we never do that, we simply point out what it means and how the prophecies were fulfilled.
    You are contradicting the Bible again. Daniel said we would not understand the book until the time of the end.

    Daniel Chapter 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. 8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 12Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
    That is sure true, most of mankind don’t listen, and Baha’u’llah explained why.... The first and last sentence of the passage below contain the two reasons.

    “So blind hath become the human heart that neither the disruption of the city, nor the reduction of the mountain in dust, nor even the cleaving of the earth, can shake off its torpor. The allusions made in the Scriptures have been unfolded, and the signs recorded therein have been revealed, and the prophetic cry is continually being raised. And yet all, except such as God was pleased to guide, are bewildered in the drunkenness of their heedlessness!” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 39
     
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  3. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Well-Known Member

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    No, Jesus did not say that He rose from the dead. The gospel writers said that. It is a story and it is not verifiable.

    I do not need to reject Jesus to believe in Baha'u'llah. I just have to reject the false Church doctrines which have absolutely nothing to do with anything Jesus ever taught.

    Christ and Baha'u'llah, Chapter Four: THE FALSE PROPHETS
     
  4. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Exactly the point of explaining my name, and showing what the exegesis is in the Bible before the Tribulation.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
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  5. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the information, but is that good or bad? Joel 2:28,"your old men will dream dreams"
     
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  6. RabbiO

    RabbiO הרב יונה בן זכריה

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    Well, if you are in need of immediate cardiac surgery and rosends says he will perform the operation, it may not be a good thing.
     
  7. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    I can't have a hobby?
     
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  8. RabbiO

    RabbiO הרב יונה בן זכריה

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    I thought this was your hobby.
     
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  9. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    • Like Like x 1
  10. OtherSheep

    OtherSheep of Jesus.

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    Jon.8:31 Then said Ἰησοῦς to those Jews which believed on Him, If ye continue in My word, [then] are ye My disciples indeed;
    8:33 They answered Him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
    8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill Me, because My word hath no place in you.

    Rev.2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but [are] the synagogue of Satan.

    Ishmael was Abraham's seed.
     
  11. OtherSheep

    OtherSheep of Jesus.

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    "The Revelation of Ἰησοῦς Christ..." tells us the same thing: Ἰησοῦς is "...the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive..."(2:8) "He which testifieth these things saith, 'Surely I come quickly.' 'Amen. Even so, come, Lord Ἰησοῦς.' "(22:20)
     
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  12. OtherSheep

    OtherSheep of Jesus.

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    Well done, 2ndpillar. And it's even worse than that.

    "10 For the Lord has made you to drink a spirit of deep sleep; and He shall close their eyes, and the eyes of their prophets and of their rulers, who see secret things. 11 And all these things shall be to you as the words of this sealed book, which if they shall give to a learned man, saying, Read this, he shall then say, I cannot read it, for it is sealed. 12 And this book shall be given into the hands of a man that is unlearned, and one shall say to him, Read this; and he shall say, I am not learned.
    13 And the Lord has said, This people draw nigh to Me with their mouth, and they honour Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me: but in vain do they worship Me, teaching the commandments and doctrines of men. 14 Therefore behold I will proceed to remove this people, and I will remove them: and I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will hide the understanding of the prudent."--Esaias 29, LXX

    Ἰησοῦς quoted this verse in Matthew 15 about the "scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem". These are the very same people against which Ἰησοῦς spoke all of Matthew 23, including verse 8
    "But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, [even] Christ; and all ye are brethren."

    Holding up a human as teacher is not even remotely the teachings of Ἰησοῦς.
    In fact, it is the hallmark of the opposite.
     
  13. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    So was Esau/Edom. It isn't going come out well for Edom. As for Ishmael, his land didn't include Iran, and he is combined with Edom in Psalm 83, of those who come up to conspire to "wipe out" the "nation" of "Israel" (Psalms 8:3-4). More likely than not, Ishmael will become as "chaff before the wind" (Psalms 83:13). Muslims also believe that Muhammad was the descendant of Ishmael. According to Zechariah 14:1-3 & 10, those nations gathered against Jerusalem, will come to a not good end. That would include the Muslim nations, included in Daniel 2:44-45, which would include Babylon/Iraq, Persia, Greece (parts of Turkey), and a combination of Rome and Edom (Russians and Esau).
     
  14. OtherSheep

    OtherSheep of Jesus.

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    Evans, who dug up Knossos, says the Islamic horde burnt at least one man to death, as part of one of their insurrections... which seem to have been created to stop his digging. I'm always interested when coincidences pile up and facts are covered.

    Because, who and where seem to have been hidden and drastically changed.

    Mat.28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Ἰησοῦς had appointed them.
    Jon.20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first [day] of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Ἰησοῦς and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace [be] unto you.

    Personally, I believe John and Matthew; and for me, that means the circle of the nations was not what's called Galilee today. For them to have gone from Jerusalem to Galilee, the 11 had to walk something like 80-100 miles in no more than the several hours between dawn and evening.
    And so, some choose to disbelieve John, rather than disbelieve the people who told us who and where. It's a hard corner to get around, and a huge box to escape... but it can be done. :cool:
     
  15. DustyFeet

    DustyFeet पैर है| outlaw kosher care-bear | Tribe of Dan

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    To quote from Whitman, "O me! O life!... of the questions of these recurring; of the endless trains of the faithless... of cities filled with the foolish; what good amid these, O me, O life?" Answer. That you are here - that life exists, and identity; that the powerful play goes on and you may contribute a verse. That the powerful play *goes on* and you may contribute a verse. What will your verse be?

    dead poets society 1989
     
  16. DustyFeet

    DustyFeet पैर है| outlaw kosher care-bear | Tribe of Dan

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    WWJD? Jesus came after isaiah? Jesus was Jewish? Did Jesus know the verses of isaiah? Did Jesus say anything about the prophecy? What would Jesus "contribute" on these verses?
     
  17. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    The Parable of the Wicked Husbandmen (Matthew 21:33-46, Mark 12:1-12, and Luke 20:9-19) paraphrased Isaiah 5, where if the Lord finds 'Briers and thorns' at his coming he will destroy us, as we find in Isaiah 7, 8, 9...

    Within Isaiah 8 the Lord (Yeshua) creates a Testimony, that becomes a way to catch out those 'Quick to the Spoils and who Hasten to the Prey'; this is the Bed of Adultery in Isaiah 28:9-19 'Rumor Upon Rumor')...

    Thus when Isaiah 53:1 states 'who would have believed the Rumor'; you'd think Hebrew speaking people would already know these things.
    Exceedingly well, and most things Yeshua stated expound on concepts in the Tanakh; it is so precise, literally a computer word search is the only way to include all of it.
    Like showing people where the Tanakh adds up.

    Isaiah 5 + Isaiah 28:9-19 (Ezekiel 7:26) = Isaiah 53 + Zechariah 11 = Jeremiah 25 + Daniel 9 = Parable of the Wicked-Husbandmen

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
    #277 wizanda, Nov 24, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2018
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  18. DustyFeet

    DustyFeet पैर है| outlaw kosher care-bear | Tribe of Dan

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    an example or two would be helpful... at least for me :)
     
  19. DustyFeet

    DustyFeet पैर है| outlaw kosher care-bear | Tribe of Dan

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    you lost me, can you detail it a bit more? i'm going to read up on the parable you mentioned tho.
     
  20. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    So for example Yeshua states that on the removal of evil from this reality, at the coming of the Messianic Age... The bloodthirsty wicked are removed by Fire in a single day (Isaiah 13, Isaiah 24, Isaiah 34, etc).

    He uses a specific terminology 'Vultures gather' (Luke 17:34-37, Matthew 24:28); this reference is found in Isaiah 34:15, which is in the middle of the Streams of Brimstone or Lake of Fire...

    Which is the end fulfillments of the Curse Moses stated in Deuteronomy 29:21-23, and after we come to the Promised Land, an Age of Godliness without Ravenous Beings.

    The removal by Fire can be gone over in multiple metaphors of the Harvest (Isaiah 28:22-29), and removal of 'Briers and Thorns' or 'Tares' (Isaiah 10:16-21, Isaiah 27:4).

    This is just a start to listing scriptures, like literally Yeshua is the Chief Corner Stone (Psalms 118); so the whole building of the Tanakh structure, rests upon his statements.
    There are multiple summaries written by us on the forum, need to know where you're stuck to be clearer... A brief summary is:

    Yeshua didn't come to die, he came to challenge the Brutish Leaders of our people (Jeremiah 25:30-38, Zechariah 11), and by them choosing to put their Lord to death as a sin sacrifice for 30 pieces of silver, they divorced themselves (Isaiah 50:1).

    The Parable of the Wicked-Husbandmen basically says we don't get inheritance from his death, and instead are cut off by God at the coming of the Messianic Kingdom for believing something so wrong.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
    #280 wizanda, Nov 24, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2018
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