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Featured Which 'g-d', is being referred to, in John 1:18?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Disciple of Jesus, Sep 11, 2018.

  1. Disciple of Jesus

    Disciple of Jesus Veteran Member

    Jun 19, 2011
    I am not arguing that John is wrong, but that in the English translation, they are vague, so forth.
    John 1:1
    Tells me that John is a theist of the standard sort, regardless of certain verses. As I've mentioned, I believe that this is a problem of translation, [though still a problem.

    Some of the texts, or most, probably went from Hebrew, or Aramaic, then to Greek, then to English, hence this is almost expected.
    #61 Disciple of Jesus, Sep 16, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Aug 17, 2009
    I find the definition of the Lake of Fire is ' second death '. So, one can put the Lake of Fire into death.
    Not an ordinary death for the Lake of Fire, but ' second death ' for the Lake of Fire.
    Since biblical hell is cast empty into that ' second death ' then hell is vacant when thrown into ' second death '.
    Because of the resurrection is why the God of the Bible is Not a God of the dead but of the living.
    All who died before Jesus (John 3:13) are still dead but can have a healthy physical resurrection.
    That is why the ' future tense ' is used at Acts of the Apostles 24:15 where it says ' there is going to be ' a resurrection.... Since that is a guarantee then God is a God of the living - Revelation 1:18.

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Aug 17, 2009
    I find John wrote what he believed at John 20:31 that Jesus is Son......
  4. Disciple of Jesus

    Disciple of Jesus Veteran Member

    Jun 19, 2011
    The verse in question, though, I don't believe can be literal, nor any of same wording. I'm not sure how the idea that something can be both observed, on many occasion, can be called unobserved.
    #64 Disciple of Jesus, Sep 16, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Aug 17, 2009
    ... and I find man lives in a body because mankind was created to be here on Earth.
    Physical mortal Adam was offered everlasting life on Earth.
    When Adam died all of Adam died returning to the dust where Adam started - Genesis 3:19.

    The figurative ' sheep ' at the soon coming of our Lord will be considered as blameless because they are judged by Jesus as being righteous or upright people as per Matthew 25:37. They will remain as per Proverbs 2:21-22.
    • Like Like x 1

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Aug 17, 2009
    I find God blew the ' breath of life ' into lifeless Adam as per Genesis 2:7.
    Adam's thoughts perished at his death, thus as King Solomon wrote the dead know nothing - Ecclesiastes 9:5.

    As a foreclosed house is ' taken away ' does Not mean the house moves anywhere.
    It does Not go anywhere but it simply 'goes back' in possession to the owner.
    So, God possesses any future life prospect a person could have. - Revelation 1:18
    That is why Psalms 104:30 says when God sends forth His spirit things are created.......
  7. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Oct 28, 2015
    There is only one true God - John 17:3
    Tie it in with 1 Corinthians 8:5-6.

    Peace to all.
    • Informative Informative x 2
  8. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

    May 31, 2018
    Follower of Christ
    I wasn't saying that there is no soul. What gave you that impression?

    Jesus says one must be born again. What does that mean?
    One must be born from water and spirit. How do you understand that?
    Jesus didn't say, what is born from water is water. Why not?
    So how do the scriptures show what he meant by, 'What is born from spirit, is spirit'?

    How is one born from water? Baptized in water - immersed in water, becomes a new man.
    How is one born from spirit? Baptized in spirit - immersed/anointed by spirit, becomes a son of God.

    When did this first happen? The disciples of Jesus were all baptized in water before the day of Pentecost 33 C.E.
    On that day this happened...
    When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues[a] as the Spirit enabled them. Acts 2:1-4

    Peter explained what happened.
    He quoted Joel 2, from verse 28, then he said...
    "God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it. Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear." Act 2:32, 33

    It seems clearly evident that the scriptures are saying that one born of spirit, is born from spirit, that is, God's spirit, and therefore they are born, not from flesh, but from God - from above. Therefore, they are spiritual sons of God - adopted by him - to be (not yet) spirit sons in heaven.
    Romans 8:14-16
    14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship.[f] And by him we cry, “Abba,[g] Father.” 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs - heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
    1. Romans 8:15 The Greek word for adoption to sonship is a term referring to the full legal standing of an adopted male heir in Roman culture; also in verse 23.
    2. Romans 8:15 Aramaic for father
    John 1:13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
    John 3:3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.
    1. John 3:3 The Greek for again also means from above; also in verse 7.
    1 John 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

    1 Peter 1:23 For you have been born again [or given you new birth], not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

    So the reason they were to be born from water and spirit, was that they would be God's heavenly children.
    Two births were necessary - actually three, but two were mentioned to Nicodemus. The third is mentioned at
    Luke 12:50; Mark 10:38-39
    38 But Jesus said to them: “You do not know what you are asking for. Can you drink the cup that I am drinking or be baptized with the baptism with which I am being baptized?” 39They said to him: “We can.” At that Jesus said to them: “The cup I am drinking, you will drink, and with the baptism with which I am being baptized, you will be baptized.
    They would also be baptized into his death - immersed in death. Like Jesus, they will be put to death in the flesh, and raised alive in the spirit. 1 Corinthians 15

    Is not 1 Peter 3: 4 referring to the inner man/person?
    The verse says....Rather, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight.

    Is that not what you understand from the verse? How else do you suggest it be understood?
    See Ephesians 4:24; Colossians 3:10, 12
    1 Timothy 2:9, 10
    9 I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.

    It seems clear Paul is speaking about the person one is, on the inside - that part that God examines.
    Psalm 7:9 ...you, the righteous who probes minds and hearts
    Proverbs 21:2 A person may think their own ways are right, but the Lord weighs the heart [or,
    Jehovah examines the hearts].
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

    Sep 3, 2013
    Perhaps the way you were saying it?

    Yes and no.

    Yes, again, that which is born of the Spirit (God - capitalized) is spirit (you). You are a spirit because you were birthed from a spirit. That which is born of flesh is flesh. You are not your mother and father's body but you are from them

    Born of water, no, in the context of "in water". Noticed it didn't say "IN' water but "OF" water and a change in words changes the meaning. There are many applications of "water".

    Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

    You are born again by the Spirit and by His word.

    Again: John 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Notice, they weren't "clean through a water baptism" but rather cleaned by the washing of the water by His word.

    Did you ever wonder why the Apostles were never baptized in physical water after being born again?

    Natural water, like the natural blood of bulls and lambs, can never accomplish God's cleansing power since this earth is cursed from the sin of Adam.

    Yes and Amen.

    This is not the born again experience. This is the receiving of "dunamis" the power of God's Holy Spirit.

    The born again experience happened way before this after Jesus was raised from the dead: John 20: 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit." Their spirits were born-again by The Spirit. It isn't God's Spirit that is born again (since you are saying is God's Spirit that they received) for His Spirit doesn't need to be born again. Man is a spirit and it is theirs spirit that needs to be born again.

    Yes and Amen!

    Yes and Amen! If by the washing of the water by the word.

    Totally different subjects and not pertaining to the issue at hand.

    Yes... man's spirit. It certainly isn't God's Spirit that needs to be of a gentle and quiet spirit.

    I think we have gone to far on the subject at hand and we are now, in these statements, dealing with something different.

    Not that it isn't good but just something different
  10. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

    May 31, 2018
    Follower of Christ
    Let's see what we agree, or don't agree on.
    I am only using scriptures, since I am interested in what the scriptures are saying.

    The scriptures show that man was made flesh, a physical body, like the animals. Agreed?
    Genesis 6:3 My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh

    Genesis 7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life. Genesis 2:7

    Genesis 9:17 And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between
    me and all flesh that is upon the earth.

    All men are born flesh, and in sin. Flesh is kept alive by spirit. Agreed?
    Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

    Job 34:14, 15
    14 If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;
    15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

    Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

    Mark 14:38 ...The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.

    Luke 26:43 46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost
    . [​IMG] Uhgg. KJV.

    Although in flesh - having a physical body, one can live by spirit. Agreed?
    Romans 7:4-6, 14-16, 25

    There are two kinds of life forms - flesh, and spirit. Agreed?
    1 Corinthians 15:39, 40, 48
    All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
    There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
    As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

    Now, we get to the meat.
    You say man is spirit, because Jesus said: What has been born from the flesh is flesh, and what has been born from the spirit is spirit. John 3:8

    Previous verses:-
    John 3:4, 5
    4 Nicodemus said to him: “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter into the womb of his mother a second time and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered: “Most truly I say to you, unless anyone is born from water and spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.

    Following verses:-
    John 3:7, 8
    7 Do not be amazed because I told you: You people must be born again. 8The wind blows where it wants to, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from and where it is going. So it is with everyone who has been born from the spirit.”

    The reason for being born again, is so that one might gain entry into heaven. Agreed?
    According to the scriptures all man after Adam, is born flesh, born in sin. Agreed?
    According to the scriptures that sinful corrupt mortal body, cannot become incorruptible, immortal, spirit, unless first it dies, because God gives that one a body accordingly. Agreed?
    1 Corinthians 15:36, 38, 42-44
    36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
    38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
    42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
    43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
    44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

    Therefore, Jesus did not mean that those born of spirit, were in spirit in form/body, but spirit in mind/within the body - their mind were now wholly focused heavenward.
    There are born anew by spirit that dwells within them.
    What scriptures show this?
    Romans 8:1-17; 2 Corinthians 1:21, 22; 2 Corinthians 5:1-5; 2 Corinthians 7:1; Galatians 6:7-9; Ephesians 1:13, 14; 1 John 3:9

    Romans 8
    9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
    10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
    11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

    2 Corinthians 1
    21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
    22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

    2 Corinthians 5
    5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

    Ephesians 1
    13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

    1 John 3
    9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

    Can we agree on this?

    Were you not the one who brought up this topic, when you said...
    I thought you wanted an answer.
  11. OtherSheep

    OtherSheep of Jesus.

    Jul 9, 2018
    Gospel of the Kingdom
    John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou Me with Thine own self with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was."
    17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we.

    The word "one" means unity, to me.
    • Like Like x 2
  12. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Nov 6, 2006
    I believe for John the Baptist to be Elijah, he had to be a spirit in order to enter a new body.