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Featured Which faulty tactic you had used, when debate with some atheists about your religious claims?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Pudding, Aug 25, 2019.

?
  1. Making bold empty claim.

    20.0%
  2. Making strawman argument.

    20.0%
  3. Reply with irrelevant stuff or moving goal posts.

    20.0%
  4. Change the definition of words to engage in sophistry.

    20.0%
  5. Say something like "go read my religion's book to find the evidence of my claims" - poor cop out.

    20.0%
  6. Making bold empty threat - atheists will go to hell if they don't obey the God i believe in.

    40.0%
  7. Making bold empty threat - atheists will regret if they don't obey the God i believe in.

    20.0%
  8. I think the debate tactics listed above are not faulty.

    20.0%
  9. I had used some of the faulty debate tactics listed above. I recognize it's a mistake to do so.

    20.0%
  10. I haven't use any of the faulty debate tactics listed above, ever.

    40.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    What we were discussing is your misunderstanding of what atheism is.

    The larger topic of the thread is logical fallacies committed by theists. I certainly hope you checked off all the boxes that describe your typical tactics.
     
  2. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Except that "objective reality" is a mythical condition; relatively and subjectively derived and generated within the human mind. And is therefor no more or less "real" than any other mythical reality generated within the human mind.

    Reality is what is, including what we think it is, regardless of how accurate or inaccurate our thinking may be. And that's "the truth" :p(ffllbbbttt!).
     
  3. Darkforbid

    Darkforbid Well-Known Member

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  4. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Regardless of whether one is atheistic or religious minded I don’t see any intelligence in the world wars we had and continue to have where millions were mass murdered and is the shame of the entire human race high IQ or not. Or the disunity prevalent in our world.

    Intelligence to me is people living together side by side harmoniously in peace and getting along with one another. A world where tolerance and compassion rule not power and wealth. How high really are our IQ’s that still we haven’t been able to establish world peace or reach gender equality? Or rid our world of racism and bigotry?

    It’s intelligent I believe to work for the betterment of all not put ones selfish interests above the common weal. So where are all these high minded people with a high IQ working for the betterment of humanity and not self interest?
     
  5. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, our senses inform us about the world external to the self, and we've evolved to interpret those data in particular ways; that's why science is so self-conscious about maximizing objectivity,

    The question is, how do you define truth? What test do you use to determine whether any statement is true or not?

    If you don't know, it would help if you simply said so.
     
  6. Howard Is

    Howard Is Lucky Mud

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    Settle down son.

    You are appalled at the state of humanity. So am I.

    Having a theological argument while our world falls apart around us won’t help.

    Many years ago a man said to me “When the wildfire is raging around you, there is no point looking for the match”
     
    #66 Howard Is, Aug 26, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2019
  7. Howard Is

    Howard Is Lucky Mud

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    Yes, humanity is a bitter disappointment.

    I woke up crying today over the Amazon.

    When I was about 10 years old I became very distressed that all the trees were being cut down.
    Everyone told me I was being silly.

    That pattern has continued.

    Our degradation is almost complete in every respect.

    And IQ has nothing to do with it.
    Nor religion or politics.
    It is about heart, courage and self control.
    The absence thereof, across the board.

    High or low IQ, atheist or theist, capitalist or communist, makes no difference.

    Faith in an external authority has failed people.

    Because every external authority, the religions, the governments, has become a tool of manipulative psychopaths who know how to manipulate human selfishness and weakness.
    And how to manipulate what was once our strength - the processes of pack-bonding. Group affiliation. An unconscious primate drive which worked for isolated bands in the jungle is now driving all of us to destruction.

    It is too late to repair our miserable society. The members don’t know why they choose what they choose.
    They will just keep repeating that same mistake.

    The attempts to undo that ignorance, which has its highest expression in politics and religion , are rejected, and people become more militantly adversarial the worse it gets.

    That has tightened like a ratchet around us all.

    It is a species flaw. It will be our undoing.
     
    #67 Howard Is, Aug 26, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2019
  8. Howard Is

    Howard Is Lucky Mud

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    People have been taught to feel that “I don’t know” is shameful.

    There is so much pressure on everybody that we don’t understand.

    I am sensing a growing panic in the world, that we have passed the point of no return.

    We may well have.

    Protect your own heart and be kind to those around you.
     
  9. Howard Is

    Howard Is Lucky Mud

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    It doesn’t matter what you believe once the forests and oceans and rivers are ruined.

    Because they are objectively real.

    Can you imagine or believe your way out of that ?
     
  10. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    It's served me well. It clears the air and makes progress possible, so it doesn't lack a positive side.
    A world with pegs in its map like Donald and Boris is a much scarier place than before, but we're still here, which is the donut to keep your eye on.
    Indeed, but this is a debate board, after all.
     
    #70 blü 2, Aug 26, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2019
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  11. dianaiad

    dianaiad Well-Known Member

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    Well, you should have a fair amount of empathy for that. After all, isn't the atheist who says that he, like the theist, think that all 'other' religions are wrong...it's just that the atheist thinks that one more religion is wrong than the theist does?



    .............and 'atheism' is very MUCH a world view. One views the world very differently if one does not believe that a deity has anything to do with anything that if he thinks that there is one.
     
  12. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    As a limited, subjective human being, I don't get to know the truth. I can only speculate, and prognosticate, and act on faith. And then see how that 'works out' for me. This is how it is for all of us. So that what we call the truth, is really just what works our for us within our limited, relative, and subjective understanding of functionality. We delude ourselves when we presume this is truth.
     
  13. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    I'm just pointing out that it's not theism nor atheism that is generating the dishonesty and irrationality of the "faulty tactics" being complained about in the OP. It's ignorance fueled by ego.
     
  14. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Many of us will ignore and deny it even as we starve to death because of it. Knowing the mechanics isn't knowing the truth. And insisting that it is just adds to the dishonesty and confusion.
     
  15. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    On the contrary, there are no absolute statements about anything, so truth is the best understanding of the best minds for the time being. It used to be true that the world was flat, and the earth was immovably fixed at the center of creation (not 'the universe' because there was no concept of the solar system, stars, planets, galaxies or the universe back then) and that the sky was a solid dome you could walk on, and to which the heavenly bodies were attached so that if they came loose they'd fall to earth. That's the cosmology used throughout the bible, for example. It used to be true that fire was due to the presence of phlogiston in combustible things. It used to be true that Washington's Polish general Casimir Pulaski was a man. It used to be true that light propagated in the lumeniferous ether, and that the crust of the earth was a single solid mass. Now it isn't true.

    Truth is never absolute, just retrospective.
     
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  16. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    I am using the definition of truth as being "what is", rather than, "our best guess as to what we think, is". Though I realize that a great many of us do assume that the truth is what we think it is.
     
  17. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    If by 'what is' you mean a statement is true if it accurately corresponds with the world external to the self, then we're on the same page, a standard for 'truth' that can, at least in principle, be tested by anyone.

    Is that about right? If it isn't, I'm interested to understand the difference.
     
  18. Howard Is

    Howard Is Lucky Mud

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    OK

    I’m beginning to get your point now.
     
  19. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member
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    Good grief...atheism is the lack of a belief in a god. That's it. Sure, that will affect your world view, just like everything else in your life. but atheism isn't a world view.
     
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  20. Howard Is

    Howard Is Lucky Mud

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    Exactly.
    Otherwise we would need to list everything we don’t believe as a world view.
    Which is not entirely incorrect, but kinda stupid.

    I don’t believe in FSMs. I don’t believe that everything works out for the best. I don’t believe that the moon is made of green cheese etc etc.

    Do I have to name everything I don’t believe in to express a world view ?

    Or is it way more workable just to name what I do believe in ?

    Do you prefer Von Neumann or Harvard architecture ? Is that part of your world view ?

    And if you don’t know or care what that means, is that non-caring your world view ?

    World view is affirmation of specific beliefs, or even just preferences, for those who eschew belief.

    Defining a world view by what it doesn’t contain is absurd.
     
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