Which evolved first, the orbit or the eye?

[FearGod]

Yes, of course, I am an animal.

You made the accusation like an animal. Do you consider all humans animals?

Do you consider yourself animal?

Yes we're all animals, but humans are far different than the rest of all animals.

You still have not clarified your confusing statements about science and religion.



For example:

Christians believe that God did it, theists believe nature did it.

Do you believe in the Bible.

The bible has errors, it was distorted by humans.

Does not clarify the issue, your evasive about you beliefs, and the question remains unanswered.

As you can see in my profile, my religion is human
I believe that most of the religions were invented by humans including yours.

 

[exchemist]

Silly rabbit ... research is for people who are actually interested in finding answers.

Too true.

 

[SomeRandom]

The atheists used to make such silly comments to defend atheism, when they don't
know the answer then they ask to search for the answer yourself, go to school ..etc.
OK, why not making a convincing answer than silly comments.

Really? I always see the complete opposite occurring. A creationist, usually on the theist side of things, asks a question that is either so basic a high schooler could answer it, or try to delve into advanced scientific knowledge. They get corrected by people with an actual academic background in the field, often complete with a list of sources (common etiquette in debate) said theist throws a tantrum and claims victimhood. Rinse and repeat. Also if you ask a question that can be answered by a simple google search and they provide that to you, that is making a convincing answer. Don't go all lazy.

 

[SomeRandom]

Mutations which is random = dice, earth once born it has no life, so living things started
by the unconscious stones.

Well... Ehh. Sure they're random but the mechanism that "decides" (if you like) is not. The mechanism is rather specific. Now I'm sure you can make an argument for mathematical probablility with various adaptions made in Biology. But it's not analogous to dice. Not particularly neatly anyway.
Also, what? Living things started with unconscious stones? Didn't life start with amino acids? Are amino acids concious? Are atoms concious?
This is some hardcore existentialism.

 

[shunyadragon]

Yes we're all animals, but humans are far different than the rest of all animals.



The bible has errors, it was distorted by humans.



As you can see in my profile, my religion is human
I believe that most of the religions were invented by humans including yours.

This does not explain your confusing responses concerning science and religion.

. . . and your arguments concerning science are confusing, contradictory, and lack basic knowledge in science. Your arguments concerning evolution are lock step with the Christian Intelligent Design evangelical Christians.

It is very possible that all religious beliefs, religions, Gods, and yours are invented by human desires for immortality, and vane desires. To claim any sort of superiority of your belief has no more basis in objective evidence than any other that you denigrate with a broad brush that they are all false, but apparently yours

 

[sayak83]

Evolved To improve, you imply that evolution is knowing what it's doing, like saying
it made the cavity in order for the eye to improve detection.

Evolution leads to improvement because of the natural selection mechanism. The improvements lead to better survival of descendants, so dominate over other less optimal designs.

 

[HonestJoe]

Yes we're all animals, but humans are far different than the rest of all animals.

You believe chimpanzees have much more in common with giant squids, hummingbirds or chameleons as they do with humans?

 

[FearGod]

You believe chimpanzees have much more in common with giant squids, hummingbirds or chameleons as they do with humans?

No. humans have more in common with Chimpanzee.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Yes we're all animals, but humans are far different than the rest of all animals.



The bible has errors, it was distorted by humans.



As you can see in my profile, my religion is human
I believe that most of the religions were invented by humans including yours.

It was written by humans.

 

[HonestJoe]

No. humans have more in common with Chimpanzee.

So how can you say “humans are far different than the rest of all animals”? We’re very different from some but very similar to others and we have some rare or unique characteristics, but that applies to all other animals too.

 

[Brickjectivity]

The mutations that caused the evolution of the orbit in the skull was first or the mutations
that caused the evolution of the eye was first.

Did the mutation of the orbit and the mutation of the eye occurred at the same time
and hence the eye was fixed in the orbit during long period of time.

Was it a design or was it a luck?

Shuny Dragon made a thread about it. The evolution of the eye

 

[Segev Moran]

As with most things along this line, they evolved together. Single genes often control the development of more than one system.

Actually they did not
The eye started as flat sensor of light and shadow. no colors, no depth.
With time the sensor became a bit curved and allowed "spotting" light direction.
As evolution kept its way, the sensor become more bent (like a bowl) and more and more until it became similar to a ball with a small hole in the middle, this already allowed depth and some blurred vision of objects.
with time, a small cover began to evolve allowing the light to enter the eye in a more concentrated way allowing it to pass a more detailed and accurate image.
the first animals had eyes without "sockets", the sockets evolved later as a defensive cover to the eye balls.

As for the question if it was luck, the answer is no. it was evolved in to become better (as all evolved creatures), this raises a very interesting question of why live should evolve in the first place. so in a way they are designed, not per say (like a sketch of eye or something) but rather there is a process that works in a specific way and always (even today) "strives" to achieve a purpose. i very much doubt that this entire "motivation" is nothing but a lucky combination of chemical events.

 

[Bear Wild]

The mutations that caused the evolution of the orbit in the skull was first or the mutations
that caused the evolution of the eye was first.

Did the mutation of the orbit and the mutation of the eye occurred at the same time
and hence the eye was fixed in the orbit during long period of time.

Was it a design or was it a luck?

I have seen a similar argument before somewhere. Oh yes did the skull or the brain evolve first. See answers to that question. The genes that govern development coordinate the eye development with facial bones in humans developed together. Early sensory of light occurred in organisms without skulls and there are soft bodies organisms that do not have a skull. Unclear what you point is by creating such a similar argument as before when most of your argument is about just how special humans are so therefor evolution does not explain this. Well it does and there is more than enough evidence for evolution.

 

[Bear Wild]

Yes we're all animals, but humans are far different than the rest of all animals.



The bible has errors, it was distorted by humans.



As you can see in my profile, my religion is human
I believe that most of the religions were invented by humans including yours.

The sad thing is you have to feel superior to other animals to make yourself to feel good when you are not. It is a shame you cannot see all life as being special and get away from the same prejudice which allows some people to feel superior to other people. How many times have we seen that in human history. That's right it is unfortunately still happening. The lack of respect for other life is what is destroying our world, time get rid of the superior attitude and start to respect all of our non-human relatives.

 

[shunyadragon]

In summary they did evolve together, but the eye did come first evolving from the simple to the complex and related nervous system before there were cartilage and bone existed, The cartilage, bone, and muscles evolved later to optimize the protection, and maximum function of the eye for the survival of the species.

 

[Polymath257]

Actually they did not
The eye started as flat sensor of light and shadow. no colors, no depth.
With time the sensor became a bit curved and allowed "spotting" light direction.
As evolution kept its way, the sensor become more bent (like a bowl) and more and more until it became similar to a ball with a small hole in the middle, this already allowed depth and some blurred vision of objects.
with time, a small cover began to evolve allowing the light to enter the eye in a more concentrated way allowing it to pass a more detailed and accurate image.
the first animals had eyes without "sockets", the sockets evolved later as a defensive cover to the eye balls.

As for the question if it was luck, the answer is no. it was evolved in to become better (as all evolved creatures), this raises a very interesting question of why live should evolve in the first place. so in a way they are designed, not per say (like a sketch of eye or something) but rather there is a process that works in a specific way and always (even today) "strives" to achieve a purpose. i very much doubt that this entire "motivation" is nothing but a lucky combination of chemical events.

I was thinking of a much later stage, but yes, this is correct.

 

[shunyadragon]

I was thinking of a much later stage, but yes, this is correct.

Actually the evolution of the eye began as single light sensitive cells like those found in bacteria today.