Watching QI this week, Stephen Fry explained the old "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?" chestnut. He said that chickens evolved from reptiles and as reptiles lay eggs, therefore the egg came before the chicken. So I'd like to take it further back and ask, which came first, the reptile of the egg?
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Which came first? The reptile or the egg?
- Thread starter Youtellme
- Start date
Gunfingers
Happiness Incarnate
Eggs predate reptiles. All invertebrates lay eggs. Reptiles were the ones that introduced amnion and egg shells, allowing them to survive away from water.
Eggs and Their Evolution
Edit: 1,000th post!
Eggs and Their Evolution
Edit: 1,000th post!
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
Congrats!
Dezzie
Well-Known Member
Why don't you ask God that ques... Just kidding...
I really have no idea how to answer these questions. I'm thinking the reptile... if evolution is true then well... the reptile could have evolved from a smaller microscopic creature... furthermore evolving the egg laying ability. lol I have no idea.
I'm going to just stop talking right now... before it gets more ridiculous.
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How exactly is an egg defined? Amphibians and even fish lay eggs, but those are not very much like the hard shelled eggs of birds and reptiles.
Gunfingers
Happiness Incarnate
All vertebrates "lay eggs" for some definition of the term. Fish and amphibian eggs lack amnion, which is why they don't have shells and have to be in water. Most mammals have the amnion contained within the mother, so the "egg" is more-or-less the uterus.
I figgered this one out some time ago.
Answer: Egg.
Premises: At one point in time, there was a what we'd call an amphibian, & then a barely perceptible change which tipped the definitional scale to reptile.
That reptile came from an egg.
But seeing that our definitions of fauna evolving over hundreds of millennia are arbitrary & overly-specific regarding a single generational change, I'd say that neither & both were first..
Answer: Egg.
Premises: At one point in time, there was a what we'd call an amphibian, & then a barely perceptible change which tipped the definitional scale to reptile.
That reptile came from an egg.
But seeing that our definitions of fauna evolving over hundreds of millennia are arbitrary & overly-specific regarding a single generational change, I'd say that neither & both were first..
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painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
The egg.... Gosh that was easy!
wa:do
wa:do
Skwim
Veteran Member
Not so true. The Malaysian trumpet snails (Melanoides sp.) are livebearing snails. They don't lay eggs but give birth to young snails.
Gunfingers
Happiness Incarnate
That's a typo and was supposed to read "vertebrates". Many invertebrates reproduce through other means. Trees have seeds, for example.
Skwim
Veteran Member
Understood. An easy enough mistake to make.
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
Live birth is actually pretty common... but not as common as egg laying.
wa:do
wa:do
evolved yet?
A Young Evolutionist
Really? Reference?
monta
.
In New Zealand live birth is the norm in lizards, I think there is only one species that lays eggs. But there are other species that also live birth.
Bryce Canyon National Park - Short-horned Lizard (U.S. National Park Service)
Bryce Canyon National Park - Short-horned Lizard (U.S. National Park Service)
evolved yet?
A Young Evolutionist
Oops sorry this has actually been discussed before:
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/evolution-vs-creationism/103389-evolution-action-lizard-moving-eggs-live.html
Midnight Pete
Well-Known Member
What predates the reptile?
Amphibians. I know, cuz I was there.