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Which Came First the Orange or Orange?

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
An RF first (in my memory). A debate between @ChristineM and @exchemist involving chemistry. We'll be fine as long as they eschew tossing this:

Lewis-structure-of-H2SO4.jpg
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
An RF first (in my memory). A debate between @ChristineM and @exchemist involving chemistry. We'll be fine as long as they eschew tossing this:

Lewis-structure-of-H2SO4.jpg
Funnily enough, the Lewis structure in (iv), which is how it is commonly represented, seems to be inaccurate.

While the empty d orbitals on sulphur overlap a bit with the full p orbitals on oxygen, there is not enough to make full strength double bonds. So in fact, the version in (ii), which implies a +ve charge on S and -ve charges on O, seems to be closer to reality. More here: Sulfate - Wikipedia

(d orbitals aren't usually a good shape to overlap well with orbitals from neighbouring atoms, since they have 4 lobes pointing in different directions and the tetrahedral shape of sulphate is not great for whatever overlap can be achieved.)
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Its actually Han women. As my sister you
are included.
As a resident here you would develop a
different left / right list.

Chocolate cake is really good.

Thetefore I am correct.

I doubt i would be a traitor to my politics and love for humanity

Chocolate is good

Right wing politics gave birth to gropy boy trump and boris johnson, i am not going there
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member

Audie

Veteran Member
I doubt i would be a traitor to my politics and love for humanity

Chocolate is good

Right wing politics gave birth to gropy boy trump and boris johnson, i am not going there

As a Honourary Han youd find no
cause for you to go over to the Orange
side, if I dont.

Excesses of leftist enthusiasm may be more
immediately evident hete than there.

Ive no enthisiasm for right or left.

Light chocolate, or dark?
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
From your link
Limonene is a colorless liquid aliphatic hydrocarbon classified as a cyclic monoterpene, and is the major component in the oil of citrus fruit peels.[

Interestingly both orange and lemon are citrus fruits
Yes exactly. So the D isomer seems to be present in the rind of both oranges and lemons, whereas the L isomer is present in dill, caraway, peppermint etc.

I would agree though it is curious that, in spite of it being named limonene, none of the literature actually states explicitly anything about lemons! They all speak of oranges - and then other, non-citrus, odours.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Orange and lemon peel both contain a molecule called limonene. However, the limonene molecule in orange peel has a different structure than the limonene in lemon peel. The different structures have different smells. The types of limonene in oranges and lemons are mirror molecules.
Mirror Molecules.


See also
Limonene - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

Hmm. That second reference, which I admit seems credible, does seem to conflict with the Wiki article and with what my old Finar has to say. But see also this, https://terpenesandtesting.com/the-two-scents-of-limonene/ which also associates L-limonene with pine-like fragrance and does not mention lemons. So it's all a bit strange.

When I'm cooking my salmon tonight I must remember to smell the lemon peel and see if there is anything pine-like about it.
Interesting.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
As a Honourary Han youd find no
cause for you to go over to the Orange
side, if I dont.

Excesses of leftist enthusiasm may be more
immediately evident hete than there.

Ive no enthisiasm for right or left.

Light chocolate, or dark?

Chocolate, any will do but dark preferred
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Yes exactly. So the D isomer seems to be present in the rind of both oranges and lemons, whereas the L isomer is present in dill, caraway, peppermint etc.

I would agree though it is curious that, in spite of it being named limonene, none of the literature actually states explicitly anything about lemons! They all speak of oranges - and then other, non-citrus, odours.

I stated Limonene, i provide the molecule diagrams for lemonine from orange and lemon
I don't really give a toss about various other variants, only the facts of orange and lemon.




 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
When I'm cooking my salmon tonight

We had salmon a couple of days ago, not fresh but frozen supermarket stuff. Looked ok, smelt ok, tasted ok but..m
It's been decided it was responsible for the whole family spening the night sitting on various toilets while keeping to TP in the fridge.
 
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