Where was Jesus Buried.

[firedragon]

The pilgrims could not call the exact year that was stated.

They thought was mentioned was about 260 years later.

I must say that these are pilgrim notes, they were written down from memory, from conversations had at an evening meal, at a later time, so this is only of interest and not an official Baha'i Statement.

Regards Tony

I asked according to Effendi.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I asked according to Effendi.

That is the only record of that conversation that I know of. It is not noted officially, as far as I know, so around 260 years is what they recall.

There is also another pilgrim note where Abdu'lbaha states about 300 years in this part of a quote.

"... They were not willing to have the body of His Holiness Jesus Christ put in the Jews’ cemetery. The Apostles went and bought a piece of land and interred him. Then the Jews took their refuse there. Later men came and built a great church over it. This was built by the mother of one of the Caesars, after three hundred years. Even up to this time in certain parts it is known as the Church of Refuse. This is really the Tomb of Christ. It was the place where all the refuse of the city was gathered in the day of Christ. For three hundred years it continued in this manner...."

The official statement is this.

".. Concerning the location of the burial site of Jesus' sacred remains, a letter dated 22 March 1982 written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice to an individual believer states:

"Pilgrims have recorded in their notes oral statements made by 'Abdu'l-Bahá and Shoghi Effendi to the effect that the disciples hid the body of Christ by burying it under the wall of Jerusalem, and that it is now under the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. The House of Justice knows of nothing in the Writings of the Faith, however, explicitly confirming these statements."

Regards Tony

 

[firedragon]

That is the only record of that conversation that I know of. It is not noted officially, as far as I know, so around 260 years is what they recall.

There is also another pilgrim note where Abdu'lbaha states about 300 years in this part of a quote.

"... They were not willing to have the body of His Holiness Jesus Christ put in the Jews’ cemetery. The Apostles went and bought a piece of land and interred him. Then the Jews took their refuse there. Later men came and built a great church over it. This was built by the mother of one of the Caesars, after three hundred years. Even up to this time in certain parts it is known as the Church of Refuse. This is really the Tomb of Christ. It was the place where all the refuse of the city was gathered in the day of Christ. For three hundred years it continued in this manner...."

The official statement is this.

".. Concerning the location of the burial site of Jesus' sacred remains, a letter dated 22 March 1982 written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice to an individual believer states:

"Pilgrims have recorded in their notes oral statements made by 'Abdu'l-Bahá and Shoghi Effendi to the effect that the disciples hid the body of Christ by burying it under the wall of Jerusalem, and that it is now under the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. The House of Justice knows of nothing in the Writings of the Faith, however, explicitly confirming these statements."

Regards Tony

When you say "pilgrim note", it is a third party? I mean what someone claimed to have heard from the source?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

When you say "pilgrim note", it is a third party? I mean what someone claimed to have heard from the source?

They were people who recorded the translated talks given by Abdu’l-Baha, or English talks by Shogh Effendi at table talks. It is their recollection, but recorded at a later time.

So we can know they most likely portray a record of the conversation, but the accuracy can not be ensured. As such they are printed for interest.

Regards Tony

 

[firedragon]

They were people who recorded the translated talks given by Abdu’l-Baha, or English talks by Shogh Effendi at table talks. It is their recollection, but recorded at a later time.

Oh I understand. I was not aware of that. Thank you so much for that clarification. I shall try and record it in my memory. If I forget in the future, please forgive my ignorance. Of course if you dont forgive I will get angry with you and say something nasty.

Cheers.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Oh I understand. I was not aware of that. Thank you so much for that clarification. I shall try and record it in my memory. If I forget in the future, please forgive my ignorance. Of course if you dont forgive I will get angry with you and say something nasty.

Cheers.

Ha ha, all good, I hope all is well and happy.

I looked up the story, if it was in history, and Wikipedia seems to offer that this is a viable possibility.

Regards Tony

 

[firedragon]

Ha ha, all good, I hope all is well and happy.

I looked up the story, if it was in history, and Wikipedia seems to offer that this is a viable possibility.

Regards Tony

I have read so much about the pre and post Constantine Christian history but I have not come across anything. So I dont know enough to respond. Maybe in the future after some research on this interesting point. I cannot say it is implausible. So if you dont mind I will rest my comments for now. At the moment, it does seem like a valid possibility. Rome was powerful enough to anything in the region, and the Jewish leadership typically would not have objected to any excavation or displacement of any grave if there was such a thing.

My only objection would be that if there was a crucifixion by the romans it is implausible that they would allow a crucified bandit to be buried by anyone in a known grave. That is implausible but is assumption based on history.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Well after doing a bit of study, I am thinking the story is the most plausible.

Recently Scientists have dated that the tomb of Christ to almost 1,700 years ago, which ties into the stories of both Abdu'lbaha and Shoghi Effendi, which was good to know.

So I would say that the tomb at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem, which is the most widely accepted burial site of Christ, most likely is.

I see the Jesus to India is highly unlikely. There is no reason he would hide after making such a Declaration, as no Messenger needs to hide.

Regards Tony

 

[Oberon12]

Well after doing a bit of study, I am thinking the story is the most plausible.

Recently Scientists have dated that the tomb of Christ to almost 1,700 years ago, which ties into the stories of both Abdu'lbaha and Shoghi Effendi, which was good to know.

So I would say that the tomb at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem, which is the most widely accepted burial site of Christ, most likely is.

I see the Jesus to India is highly unlikely. There is no reason he would hide after making such a Declaration, as no Messenger needs to hide.

Regards Tony

There is no theological reason to assume he would appear as the same person anywhere else, either; the theology would, and did, spread just fine as it is, from a major empire to around the globe.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There is no theological reason to assume he would appear as the same person anywhere else, either; the theology would, and did, spread just fine as it is, from a major empire to around the globe.

Also, Jesus did offer on the cross, before he had passed, that it was finished.

Regards Tony

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Christion believe, and scripture affirms, that Christ rose from the dead and bodily ascended in to heaven.
Hence no body of Christ remains on Earth.
However if this is not the case, Jesus remains must be somewhere.
If that is true than the nature and Deity of Jesus also falls,
A view that would not be acceptable to many Christians.
But perhaps to some Christian Unitarians.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Christion believe, and scripture affirms, that Christ rose from the dead and bodily ascended in to heaven.
Hence no body of Christ remains on Earth.
However if this is not the case, Jesus remains must be somewhere.
If that is true than the nature and Deity of Jesus also falls,
A view that would not be acceptable to many Christians.
But perhaps to some Christian Unitarians.

If the remains of Jesus are found, then I see it takes nothing away from Jesus, who was Annointed with the Holy Spirit. It is the Spirit that gives us life, as we are to be born again into that Spirit.

If the flesh matters, why do you think that Jesus say it amounts to naught?

Regards Tony

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

If the remains of Jesus are found, then I see it takes nothing away from Jesus, who was Annointed with the Holy Spirit. It is the Spirit that gives us life, as we are to be born again into that Spirit.

If the flesh matters, why do you think that Jesus say it amounts to naught?

Regards Tony

The Crucifixion and bodily ascension of Christ are an essential element of Trinitarian Christianity.

The Holy spirit is with in everyone, believer or acknowledged by them or not.
It is that part of us that Returns to God.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The Crucifixion and bodily ascension of Christ are an essential element of Trinitarian Christianity.

What can I say but that saddens me greatly and from the heart comes this prose.

I yearn for the love of Christ,
Where should I look for that love,
Shall I choose what man offers,
Should I decide for myself?
Lost in a doctrinal cloud,
are the hearts made proud,
proud of a picture drawn,
where flesh on a cloud adorns.
Yet flesh always rots away,
and leads the heart astray.

TBS 2021

I wish you all the best in life and faith.

Regards Tony

 

[Colt]

I see that Logically Jesus was buried and was kept a secret, so that the grave would not be desecrated.

There is a talk given by Shoghi Effendi which is no an official Baha'i view, but is of interest. It was given in a talk after Shoghi Effendi had been sitting in silence for a while and he offerd this.

"People wonder what happened to the body of Christ after the crucifixion. It was buried by the disciples under the wall of Jerusalem to protect it from the Roman legions. It remained buried there for some 260 years. (The Guardian gave the exact number of years but afterwards none of the pilgrims could remember precisely the number.) It remained buried under the wall of Jerusalem until the mother of the Emperor Constantine, who had herself become a Christian, came to Jerusalem and had the Church of the Holy Sepulcher built – at which time the body of Christ was removed from under the wall of the city and was placed under the Church of the Holy Sepulcher. And that is where it is today. The Baha’is should be aware of this fact when they visit the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, which is the holiest place in Christendom."

There has been interest with this recently as well.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.icepop.com/jesus-tomb-opened/?amp&ved=2ahUKEwi6s8a77YvzAhXHzjgGHU38B2kQFnoECCsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw08CVmRUSg_CTH04c7d0Rvm&ampcf=1&cshid=1632082639108

So plausible?

We may never know, but maybe it will be known?

Regards Tony

The mortal body of Jesus was placed in the new tomb of Joseph of Arimathea. After 3 days Jesus returned from death on his own volition in a new form as he promised. His former mortal body vanished.

 

[Oberon12]

The mortal body of Jesus was placed in the new tomb of Joseph of Arimathea. After 3 days Jesus returned from death on his own volition in a new form as he promised. His former mortal body vanished.

Yes, that's the way the Resurrection reads to me. He reappeared a couple of places, then disappeared again; the tomb remained empty.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

What can I say but that saddens me greatly and from the heart comes this prose.

I yearn for the love of Christ,
Where should I look for that love,
Shall I choose what man offers,
Should I decide for myself?
Lost in a doctrinal cloud,
are the hearts made proud,
proud of a picture drawn,
where flesh on a cloud adorns.
Yet flesh always rots away,
and leads the heart astray.

TBS 2021

I wish you all the best in life and faith.

Regards Tony

As A Heretic I hold more to the Christian Unitarian view, Rather than the Trinitarian one.
There are many views within the Christian Spectrum. to the extent that many do not accept that others are Christians at all.
I would go as far as saying I do not understand the God concept , as understood by many Christians.
I would suggest we know nothing for sure about either a Creator or a God, or Gods.

 

[Firelight]

Jesus’ body was not buried, it was laid in a tomb near Golgatha. After three days, Jesus’ took up his body again and left the tomb. There are no remains to be found.
Resurrection is when the spirit and the body come back together sometime after death. The body becomes immortal and will never separate from the spirit again.
After He was resurrected, Jesus visited his apostles, showed them the nail marks in his hands and feet, and proved to them that he had risen from the dead as he said he would. Later, Jesus ascended into Heaven to be with His Father.

 

[Clara Tea]

I see that Logically Jesus was buried and was kept a secret, so that the grave would not be desecrated.

There is a talk given by Shoghi Effendi which is no an official Baha'i view, but is of interest. It was given in a talk after Shoghi Effendi had been sitting in silence for a while and he offerd this.

"People wonder what happened to the body of Christ after the crucifixion. It was buried by the disciples under the wall of Jerusalem to protect it from the Roman legions. It remained buried there for some 260 years. (The Guardian gave the exact number of years but afterwards none of the pilgrims could remember precisely the number.) It remained buried under the wall of Jerusalem until the mother of the Emperor Constantine, who had herself become a Christian, came to Jerusalem and had the Church of the Holy Sepulcher built – at which time the body of Christ was removed from under the wall of the city and was placed under the Church of the Holy Sepulcher. And that is where it is today. The Baha’is should be aware of this fact when they visit the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, which is the holiest place in Christendom."

There has been interest with this recently as well.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.icepop.com/jesus-tomb-opened/?amp&ved=2ahUKEwi6s8a77YvzAhXHzjgGHU38B2kQFnoECCsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw08CVmRUSg_CTH04c7d0Rvm&ampcf=1&cshid=1632082639108

So plausible?

We may never know, but maybe it will be known?

Regards Tony

The law separating church and state prevented churches from preaching in schools, forcing kids of all faiths to respect only their Christian faith. It seemed like paranoia for Christians to say that people were trying to take away their religion. That paranoia became an important rallying point, gaining a lot of votes for their religious right candidate, who then proceeded to make a lot of wars, destroy God's environment, and not address religious issues such as abortion.

Paranoia persists. Why would the remains of Jesus be desecrated? Granted, Jesus was crucified, but that was done and over. There is no need to go after the bones of Jesus.

However, the grave of Jesus would be of great spiritual interest to Christians, and many would be honored to go to his grave site. Why hide it from the world?

How do we know that the body of Jesus was buried under the wall of Jerusalem? How do we know that the body of Jesus was reburied under the Church of the Holy Sepulcher? We could believe the bible....but why? There are plenty of contradictions in the bible. Also, the bible was written more than 100 years after the death of Jesus, and long after all of the apostles had died. The bible was written in ancient times....when men spoke of dragons, sea monsters, and might have believed that the earth was held up by Atlas. There were a lot of myths back then, are we to now believe that their beliefs were all real?

 

[Clara Tea]

Jesus’ body was not buried, it was laid in a tomb near Golgatha. After three days, Jesus’ took up his body again and left the tomb. There are no remains to be found.
Resurrection is when the spirit and the body come back together sometime after death. The body becomes immortal and will never separate from the spirit again.
After He was resurrected, Jesus visited his apostles, showed them the nail marks in his hands and feet, and proved to them that he had risen from the dead as he said he would. Later, Jesus ascended into Heaven to be with His Father.

Jews are Semites, and so are Arabs. Jews looked like Arabs back then (before mixing with Germans, looking blond, looking White). But once Christ was resurrected, he is described in the bible as having blond (or white) hair, and red eyes. Could it be that someone else posed as Jesus and people thought that someone else was Jesus?

Many assert that Jesus was never nailed to the cross. There is no proof that he was. There is some archaeological evidence that some were (bones have been found with nail marks). But it was also common practice to tie someone to a cross. Some insist that Jesus had been tied, not nailed. How then, is it possible for the body of Jesus to have nail marks if he was never nailed?