Where was God during the Las Vegas shooting?

[YmirGF]

Murderous psychopaths and serial killers often don't tip off anyone over their behaviors and mannerisms, and often seem likable, approachable, and not someone you think of as intending to murder you.

You are right. That is a large part of how they get away with their line of amusement. That said, I can't help but think this one is a little different.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It does not take a genius to pick the logical answer of a mass shooter.

Apparently, it might, because we don't even know why the guy did this, let alone why he killed himself. Maybe it was because mass shooters sometimes eventually turn the gun on themselves, and he was just following that trend. Any number of reasons are possible. And, of course we can't just say he is like every other mass shooter, because mass shooters generally have different thought processes going on and do not interpret the world in the same way and have different things motivating them (rejection, failure to meet social pressures, mentally disturbed, the list goes on).
We don't know, and it does not good to insert what we think or want to be true as motives. And unless the investigation turns up anything, we will never know, making it entirely pointless to even speculate.

 

[Enoch07]

Apparently, it might, because we don't even know why the guy did this, let alone why he killed himself. Maybe it was because mass shooters sometimes eventually turn the gun on themselves, and he was just following the trend.

The reason mass shooters kill themselves is to escape the punishment of, a long trial, and spending the rest of their lives in jail, or being executed by the state.

 

[Mohsen]

Thank you, Professor Einstein.

Well you wasn’t exactly being captain obvious... so I did the honours lol

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The reason mass shooters kill themselves is to escape the punishment of, a long trial, and spending the rest of their lives in jail, or being executed by the state.

And exactly how many mass shooters that killed themselves have you talked to?

 

[Joose]

It is not for us to know the plan, and sometimes not even our part in it... and to help with your religious struggle, try not to always see yourself as the center of the universe... we are but microns in comparison to the almighty and as far as I can tell we don't deserve salvation, yet his proverbial hand was extended, this land is rampant with all forms of evil and most of us so called Christians don't even follow the basic guidelines set before us then want to be upset when we don't get a response... try asking what you can do for the divine creator... instead of only worrying about what he can do for you... he did his part to equip and protect us, WE fell from eden, WE brought evil upon ourselves, WE DON'T DESERVE ANYTHING... we must prove our worth through HIS works and OBEDIENCE.

 

[Mohsen]

It is not for us to know the plan, and sometimes not even our part in it... and to help with your religious struggle, try not to always see yourself as the center of the universe... we are but microns in comparison to the almighty and as far as I can tell we don't deserve salvation, yet his proverbial hand was extended, this land is rampant with all forms of evil and most of us so called Christians don't even follow the basic guidelines set before us then want to be upset when we don't get a response... try asking what you can do for the divine creator... instead of only worrying about what he can do for you... he did his part to equip and protect us, WE fell from eden, WE brought evil upon ourselves, WE DON'T DESERVE ANYTHING... we must prove our worth through HIS works and OBEDIENCE.

This resonates so strongly with my own understanding of our place in this world, thank you for sharing!

God bless,

 

[Enoch07]

And exactly how many mass shooters that killed themselves have you talked to?

The same amount that you have.

 

[Mohsen]

The same amount that you have.

You come across a tad bit disingenuous!

 

[Enoch07]

You come across a tad bit disingenuous!

Nah!

 

[Deidre]

I've had these conversations with people before, both when I was an atheist, and now...and I find myself always going back to the same thing...that we are not drones. God isn't this grand puppeteer in the sky, pulling all of our strings. He allows us the freedom to choose, and sometimes, others' freedoms will cause us harm. That's not really a problem of God, unless we feel that he shouldn't have created humanity. In our humanness, we have the choice to do good or bad.

 

[Mohsen]

I've had these conversations with people before, both when I was an atheist, and now...and I find myself always going back to the same thing...that we are not drones. God isn't this grand puppeteer in the sky, pulling all of our strings. He allows us the freedom to choose, and sometimes, others' freedoms will cause us harm. That's not really a problem of God, unless we feel that he shouldn't have created humanity. In our humanness, we have the choice to do good or bad.

This ends with the pascals wager, of course The atheist says "If God is the puppeteer then why xyz" - we say "no, there will be a judgement, we are to be judged on our belief, deeds and conduct"... the atheist doesn't believe in an afterlife, and so, we go to the pascals wager, where things get interesting, real fast!

Peace

Nah!

I hope not too,

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The same amount that you have.

Which leads to the next question; having never talked to them, how do you know why they killed themselves when they did not convey this information to you?

I've had these conversations with people before, both when I was an atheist, and now...and I find myself always going back to the same thing...that we are not drones. God isn't this grand puppeteer in the sky, pulling all of our strings. He allows us the freedom to choose, and sometimes, others' freedoms will cause us harm. That's not really a problem of God, unless we feel that he shouldn't have created humanity. In our humanness, we have the choice to do good or bad.

That hinges upon the idea that free will even exists at all.

 

[Mohsen]

Nah!

Which leads to the next question; having never talked to them, how do you know why they killed themselves when they did not convey this information to you?

That hinges upon the idea that free will even exists at all.

I'm not sure you know how to do "metaphysics" if you are questioning "free will".

 

[Shadow Wolf]

This ends with the pascals wager, of course The atheist says "If God is the puppeteer then why xyz" - we say "no, there will be a judgement, we are to be judged on our belief, deeds and conduct"... the atheist doesn't believe in an afterlife, and so, we go to the pascals wager, where things get interesting, real fast!

Peace



I hope not too,

Do you think god would like faith being boiled down to "afterlife insurance?" And, of course, Pascal's Wager never considers or asks what god and what afterlife. It's nothing more than an excuse for those with weak faith to justify having forfeited living a thoroughly examined life.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm not sure you know how to do "metaphysics" if you are questioning "free will".

Does it matter? Our culture upbringing and genetic predispositions and childhood experiences alone are enough to cast serious doubts on the idea of free will. Add in that neuro-psychology is further chipping away at the idea of free will, and at best we are left with hopes of compatibalism, but even that must be demonstrated to exist and have some meaningful application to suggest that we ever really do have a choice.
Also, I wouldn't be such a strong Agnostic if metaphysics were entirely lost on me.

 

[Deidre]

Which leads to the next question; having never talked to them, how do you know why they killed themselves when they did not convey this information to you?

That hinges upon the idea that free will even exists at all.

True. But, if it doesn't...we still believe it does, lest we wouldn't have prisons then. It's a conundrum, indeed.

 

[Deidre]

This ends with the pascals wager, of course The atheist says "If God is the puppeteer then why xyz" - we say "no, there will be a judgement, we are to be judged on our belief, deeds and conduct"... the atheist doesn't believe in an afterlife, and so, we go to the pascals wager, where things get interesting, real fast!

Peace



I hope not too,

Did you know that Pascal really intended that wager for lukewarm Christians? Not really atheists...but I hear you. lol

 

[Mohsen]

Do you think god would like faith being boiled down to "afterlife insurance?"

This purple font you are using, is ridiculous, just like your assumption. Afterlife Insurance? Really? I don't believe in any kind of "insurance"... not in my theological belief system to have an afterlife insurance. You seem to want to reduce the complexity of creation down to convenient analogy, which to be honest, just seems rather infantile and immature.

And, of course, Pascal's Wager never considers or asks what god and what afterlife. It's nothing more than an excuse for those with weak faith to justify having forfeited living a thoroughly examined life.

Pascals Wager is the wager set by God, which Pascal learnt to figure out lol. It's hardly rocket science. It's just a logic trap for the atheist.

See, I as a believer can live a good and healthy life, full of moral virtue in the hope that God will be merciful to me - and if I'm right in that He exists and He rewards me for my belief, deeds and conduct - I win, you lose because you chose not to believe. But if, on the other hand - you were right and there was no God, no life after death, no judgement etc - then we you still lose, because we are both wormfood, yet I lived a better, more wholesome life with more moral grounding and with a sense of accountability you could never compare to, because you do not believe in "judgement in life after death".

Do yourself a favour, learn to understand what the pascals wager is. Don't do a dizzy, don't do convenient analogies to push a bias - learn the irony of the wager!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

This book I can't highly recommend enough.
Free Will (book) - Wikipedia

Free Will is a 2012 book by American neuroscientist and author Sam Harris. Harris argues that the truth about the human mind (that free will is an illusion) does not undermine morality or diminish the importance of political and social freedom, and can as well as should change the way we think about some of the most important questions in life.[1][2][3][4]


Harris says the idea of free will "cannot be mapped on to any conceivable reality" and is incoherent.[5][6] According to Harris, science "reveals you to be a biochemical puppet."[7] People's thoughts and intentions, Harris says, "emerge from background causes of which we are unaware and over which we exert no conscious control." Every choice we make is made as a result of preceding causes. These choices we make are determined by those causes, and are therefore not really choices at all. Harris also draws a distinction between conscious and unconscious reactions to the world. Even without free will, consciousness has an important role to play in the choices we make. Harris argues that this realization about the human mind does not undermine morality or diminish the importance of social and political freedom, but it can and should change the way we think about some of the most important questions in life.

Like any other of Harris' books, agree or disagree, it is a great mental exercise to read, and will only help you to sharpen and enhance your own positions.