1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Where was God during the Las Vegas shooting?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by davidor, Oct 3, 2017.

  1. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,236
    Ratings:
    +576
    Religion:
    Pragmatic Christian
    While your quote is correct, perhaps you understanding of it isn't? When God creates 'evil' perhaps this other translation might help us understand what is being talked about:
    "
    7 I form light and create darkness,
    I make well-being and create calamity,
    I am the LORD, who does all these things.
    "​
    We see that God creates calamity, or evil, for the ones who are wicked. As he says, (Isaiah 57:21 " There is no peace,” says my God, “for the wicked.” "

    Still, it doesn't make it any easier to swallow or understand. However, how can he judge us if he stops us from doing evil, or good?!
    How do you suggest stopping a mass murderer, or war, or the rich from exploiting the poor, that rich nations from exploiting the resources of the poor nations, etc.?
     
  2. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    Messages:
    9,627
    Ratings:
    +2,720
    Religion:
    Theistic Rationalist-Christian
    Been an awful lot of that going on lately. Maybe the dawn of a new age? :D
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. arthra

    arthra Baha'i

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    6,432
    Ratings:
    +1,854
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    I think God is present and knows more than we do.. What the course of events will take following this tragedy we may not know immediately but the course of a strong movement to prevent such tragedies in the future is already taking shape... and who can we blame? Our own omissions and lack of perception.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2014
    Messages:
    11,590
    Ratings:
    +10,270
    Religion:
    none
    Considering that we have millennia of evidence that humans are a particularly violent species, there must have been an incredible number of 'insane' people over the years.

    You can only see violence as an 'error' that somehow necessitates a 'corruption' of our nature with a wilful avoidance of this evidence.

    We can be peaceful creatures, but we certainly didn't evolve to be non-violent.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    12,146
    Ratings:
    +5,519
    Yes these events are always hard to come to terms with. Man and Mind are connected with all Creation and the misuse of God Given Free Will has consequences, it has been explained in these ways;

    “Events like these happen because of the connection between the parts of the universe, for every small part has connection with every great part, and what affects one affects the other or all others. On account of this connection, the actions of man have effect. Whenever a promise is broken, it causes a commotion. For instance, suppose two nations have a disagreement. It is a difference in ideas only, and not a physical thing, not anything we can touch or see; yet this disagreement has a physical effect. It causes war, and thousands of men are cut in pieces. So, when man breaks his promise to God, in other words when he “violates the Covenant,” the effect is physical, and calamities appear.” (Daily Lessons Received at Akká’ by Helen Goodall & Ella Cooper. Bahá’í Publishing Trust 1979, p. 21-22)

    "Although outwardly cataclysms are hard to understand and to endure, yet there lies a great wisdom behind them which appears later. All the visible material events are inter-related with invisible spiritual forces. The infinite phenomena of creation are as interdependent as the links of a chain. When certain links become rusty, they are broken by unseen forces, to be replaced by newer and better ones. There are certain colossal events which transpire in the world of humanity which are required by the nature of the times. For example, the requirements of winter are cold, snow, hail and rain - but the birds and animals who live for six months, enjoying a short span of life, not realizing the wisdom of winter, chide and make lament and are discontent, saying, “Why this awful frost? Why this hail and storm? Why not the balmy weather? Why not the eternal springtime? Why this injustice on the part of the creator? Why this suffering? What have we done to be meted out with this catastrophe?” However, those souls who have lived many years and have acquired much experience and have weathered many severe winters realize that in order to enjoy the coming spring they must pass through the cold of winter."
    (‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Divine Philosophy, p. 115)

    The more that Humanity forgets God and lives a life that is not in tune with Gods Given Laws, the more the world and Humanity will fall into greater calamity.

    I hope that you can remain happy and be able to focus on a positive life in these times. Regards Tony
     
  6. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2014
    Messages:
    9,881
    Ratings:
    +5,458
    Religion:
    Secular theist (none)
    Those who die in such events don't benefit from the wisdom some of us gain and aren't hurt from the anger and sorrow that hurt others. It's therefore better to avoid such incidents as much as possible, instead of stumbling blind into the next.
     
  7. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Messages:
    5,143
    Ratings:
    +2,367
    Religion:
    Catholic
    With his apparent love of guns he couldn't possibly be a 'Hilary' supporter. I think the only one who may have answers for his behavior is his companion.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2014
    Messages:
    9,881
    Ratings:
    +5,458
    Religion:
    Secular theist (none)
    He had been planning an attack for some time. He had explosives possibly for some failed plot and he had rented multiple rooms during another concert, probably to decide what type of room gave the best angle of attack.
     
  9. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2014
    Messages:
    9,881
    Ratings:
    +5,458
    Religion:
    Secular theist (none)
    Strangely people are calling it terrorism, yet terrorism usually has an aim beside mass killing. So far, only ISIS has claimed it as their attack. The attacker left no terrorist message or any clue what he thought would change with mass murder.
     
  10. davidor

    davidor New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2017
    Messages:
    10
    Ratings:
    +9
    I totally get a lot of people came out and made a lot of good out of a bad thing. People forget their strangers and become one. That's all great. Us good people show the best in us during times like this. But tell this to the guy that was shot in the head while he was attending a concert. Tell that to that guys wife, mother, father, etc. Did god do this to show us how great we are? But what about that guy that his life was cut short. No matter how much good came out of it, his life goals were cut way short. There's no good in this for him.

     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  11. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Messages:
    5,143
    Ratings:
    +2,367
    Religion:
    Catholic
    Or the dawn of realizing that God has no such powers.
     
  12. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2012
    Messages:
    9,996
    Ratings:
    +787
    Religion:
    Messianic Jewish Christianity
    How is it "free will" if only good actions can be made?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. davidor

    davidor New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2017
    Messages:
    10
    Ratings:
    +9
    I've thought about that. Maybe he created the framework of the world.... The universe, physics, all the natural laws we live in. He said I'm doing this and I'm keeping out of anything that happens within the world. I don't know.
     
  14. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    178,532
    Ratings:
    +58,711
    Religion:
    Bokononism & Atheism
    If everyone else has too much class to answer it, then I will.....

    Where was God during the Las Vegas shooting?
    Taking a knee.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Creative Creative x 1
  15. BSM1

    BSM1 What? Me worry?

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2012
    Messages:
    19,400
    Ratings:
    +9,206
    Religion:
    Buddhistic Panenthetic Jesusonian
    Beat me to it, dang it. But when you understand and accept the true meaning of this verse terms like "indifference" have little meaning when talking about a transcendent Deity that also creates the word and meaning. What this verse tells me is that we very little, if any, control over outside forces in our lives. We do, however, have complete control over how we react to the world we live in.
     
  16. davidor

    davidor New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2017
    Messages:
    10
    Ratings:
    +9
    I guess I post this with no intentions on getting an answer. I went on a religious search for myself a few months ago. I swang far religious for a few weeks, then swang back to being athiest. Now I'm back in the middle again. I don't think anyone here will be able to post anything to answer my questions. No one alive has the answer. If someone here told me they did have the answer, I'd think they're nuts. I just came to the conclusion a few months ago to live a good life as i always have. If god does exist, I'm sure he will reward me with afterlife bliss. If not, I led a good honest life anyway. But things like this bring back to me, if god really cares, why did he not do anything?
     
  17. BSM1

    BSM1 What? Me worry?

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2012
    Messages:
    19,400
    Ratings:
    +9,206
    Religion:
    Buddhistic Panenthetic Jesusonian
    Sorry. The verse means exactly what it says, I don't think you comprehend it's meaning. I've heard other people use the same argument, but this is one verse that needs no clarification. If God doesn't create Evil (along with everything else that does and does not exist) then who does?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,236
    Ratings:
    +576
    Religion:
    Pragmatic Christian
    In what sense, in what cases - do you think to say that God creates evil? How would this differ from satan?
    (since you aren't a Christian, I think our perspectives differ. Still, want to hear what you think.)
     
  19. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Messages:
    40,105
    Ratings:
    +14,165
    Religion:
    Judaism
    Darn right! I just cannot imagine how I could enjoy my family, friends, the arts, travel, good food and wine without the occasional natural disaster and increasingly frequent mass shooting.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  20. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2014
    Messages:
    9,881
    Ratings:
    +5,458
    Religion:
    Secular theist (none)
    That view sounds like Deism. I admit it's one of the more compelling type of creator Gods people believe in.
     
Loading...