Where was God during the Las Vegas shooting?

[davidor]

So, today there were 4 major stories where there were mass murders. Another church shooting killing many. I reallly think I'm loosing my religion. If god exists, he's cruel. I know some say the devil exists... but god is supposed to be inifinitely more powerful. If god is so much more powerful, how does the devil get away with so much. Either god doesn't exist or he's arogant and cruel, or incompitent to be god. I'm sorry. If he's so great, he should know better than to allow this stuff to happen or allow the devil to win.

 

[davidor]

i keep wondering if we're in the final years of the world. I wonder, when I see Donald Trump as the president, this shouldn't have happened but maybe this is god's plan on ending this world. I see Trump as the anti-christ. Granted, I don't know if God is supposed to pick the anti-christ. But, Trump lost the popular vote. Our forefathers that came up with the electoral college preplanned the end of the world beause their choice started the end of the world. Trump, I see, starting a nuclear war because of this arogance and not understnding politics, his twitter random rants and insults.. it's the plan hes going to twitter something that will start the end of days by shooting all or nukes at some other country which will cause that country to send all theirs back... and everyone else will launch theirs and soon the world will end. I see Trump as a means to the end.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Y'know realistically, we've had so much more corrupt and despicable presidents than Trump. The world has had far worse leaders. Trump, while reviled by the left, doesn't hold a birthday candle to Nero - who, by the way, was the actual anti-christ.

It's not the end of the world.

 

[Silverscale derg]

I always ask this question after something bad happens. It makes me mad when something good happens and everyone praises god for the great things he provides. But then something bad happens and god gave us free will. This just means stuff happens. Good and bad... stuff happens. God isn't controlling anything. If he's real, it makes me mad that he can just sit by and watch this stuff and do nothing about it. I struggle with religion. I've been reading a lot of books by Tim Keller and Case for Christ, and a few others. Once in a while, I'll start feeling like maybe there is something. But then something like Las Vegas or the Church shooting that just happened not too far from where I live here in Tennessee happens and then I ask, where was god? Was he just taking the day off? Does he not care? Or does he just not exist?

"god" is not going to save anyone from anything. Sure his claims of being "all powerful" or "all loving" are just blown way out. For one you're asking the "god" of the bible, the one who flooded the earth because lucifer wanted to wake up adam and eve from the illusion they lived, the one humans now live, the one where they believe they're the highest and most important. Your question is like saying "where was 'god' during the wolf shootings or every _____ hunt turned into a coyote hunt" that god is messed up and only wants earth to be destroyed which it's safe to say it is...just a bit more and the world will be free. I'm sure you know about Chernobyl...the wildlife there is great...only if it was like that everywhere. The real gods, the ones of different motives and the five main creating dragon gods with spirit, earth, air, fire, and water. The real gods don't claim to know everything, nor that they're everywhere, nor that they micro manage everything. We now have been forced onto Venus besides a few skilled in stealth for which I am one of them, Humans keep killing every other creature yet when a human kills another human it's such a big deal. I don't get it. Grow a pair. Small lizards get impaled in fishing hooks to be live bait being both in pain and drowning in water that isn't up to reptile standards anyways so it's like being stabbed through the stomach, being thrown into cold water, then drowning....and all to catch a fish which you could have carved bark off a tree and a fish would bite.. They sense movement, they can't see very well underwater. Wolves are killed because the natives were killed so they got ones from canada and now it's such a big stink about how they're invasive or whatever crap hunters want to say, coyotes are always on the target for the same reason. Bobcats are killed for the hell of it, foxes...they get killed for existing like coyotes. Asides from the predators humans also kill iguanas in Florida in claims that they're "overpopulated" and "invasive" yet humans have 7 billion in population, not to mention all over the world...iguanas are not invasive nor are they doing anything to harm the environment. Sure they can chew up lawns but they need to eat. That would be like a fae standing over a field and because you humans are so self centered then i'll put a human in the one taking the food, so a human goes to the field and takes some corn. The fae freaks out and kills the humans, all of them because vegetables happened to be a part of their diet and even with vast amount of vegetation they seem to be going after the poor iguanas like a cull. Humans moved everywhere...other creatures can move too. They're reptiles so they need a stable warm environment so it's not like they can take over the world unlike a species that will remain unnamed. Stop being selfish. If one treats other creatures lives poorly then why should they be given mercy when karma gets them?

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

In the Great Wall of Text I'm getting mixed notions of Christianity, Roman Paganism, Celtic Paganism, and Hinduism--what!?

 

[Silverscale derg]

In the Great Wall of Text I'm getting mixed notions of Christianity, Roman Paganism, Celtic Paganism, and Hinduism--what!?

You forgot about the outcast of me. Yes I support pagans but I myself follow the dragon path. Sure not the human version of being pagan but still. Same thing. Many gods, respecting earth, cycles of the moon, spells. I come here to inquire why my kind is so hated

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

You think you're a dragon...

 

[Muffled]

So if we check in on that guy who claimed to have found faith because of the shooting and discover that he has reverted back to agnosticism (or has ended up in some religion besides Christianity), will you admit that there was never any purpose behind God allowing the massacre?

I believe not. That could be the purpose as well as many other purposes. No one understands how intricately God manages each life. Every one thinks he is captain of his own ship.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Because everyone is the captain of their own ship. Faith is the waters we sail on.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I believe not. That could be the purpose as well as many other purposes.

If a claim is unfalsifiable, then we're unjustified in assuming that it's correct.

No one understands how intricately God manages each life. Every one thinks he is captain of his own ship.

But we're not?

In other conversations I've had with Christians, they've insisted that we are in order to argue that God doesn't manage each person's life... which is how they try to argue that God isn't responsible for human evil. So which is it?

 

[Lyndon]

You are responsible for your own actions, You can either chose to have God's assistance or not, the choice is yours.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

You are responsible for your own actions, You can either chose to have God's assistance or not, the choice is yours.

Free will doesn't exist when all-powerful, all-knowing god is at work. If you give him the credit for our good deeds you have to give him the blame for our bad deeds too or you're just trying to have your cake and eat it.

If a god has ultimate control over everything then the buck can only ever stop with it.

 

[Lyndon]

Sorry but it doesn't work that way......

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

How do you know? How does it work?

 

[Lyndon]

If you have a friend that is helping you, that friend is not responsible for the bad things that happen to you.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Depends on what your friend is helping you with. If my friend is spotting my ladder, and they fail in their task and I fall... Yes, they are responsible for that damage to my person.

That doesn't explain (from your perspective) free will coexisting with a god who knows everything but punishes people anyway.

 

[davidor]

I believe I try not to give answers that are too painful for people to accept. God does not consider it murder when He takes a life because He considers it His prerogative. Yes, he may take relatively innocent people in order to punish the evil people who think murder is ok. There is even a chance that a relatively innocent person might end up in Hell when the world ends but those in Hell are raised up to face the final judgement where they migh get an out of hell free card.

You make it sound like the massicare was gods plan and the shooter was a god helper doing his work to call his people home. I dont believe that at all.

 

[Randy the Atheist]

Perhaps gods are man-made ideas and do not exist in reality? Why doesn't anyone ever suggest this as a possible answer? It answers all the questions you have about suffering and the unfortunate and best of all - it requires no mental gymnastics whatsoever.

 

[1robin]

I always ask this question after something bad happens. It makes me mad when something good happens and everyone praises god for the great things he provides. But then something bad happens and god gave us free will. This just means stuff happens. Good and bad... stuff happens. God isn't controlling anything. If he's real, it makes me mad that he can just sit by and watch this stuff and do nothing about it. I struggle with religion. I've been reading a lot of books by Tim Keller and Case for Christ, and a few others. Once in a while, I'll start feeling like maybe there is something. But then something like Las Vegas or the Church shooting that just happened not too far from where I live here in Tennessee happens and then I ask, where was god? Was he just taking the day off? Does he not care? Or does he just not exist?

Your argument is just another example of a type of argument referred to as a false optimality. It basically consists of pointing out anything that isn't optimal (perfectly good) and claiming that because it exists God can't exist. But I will go further than simply pointing out the silliness of that type of argument and give you several points to consider.

1. The presence of evil does not philosophically contradict the existence of a perfect God.
2. You must separate the emotional reaction to a thing from it's philosophical context.
3. From the very first chapter of the bible God predicted the suffusion of evil we see around us. Basically, the presence of evil events just fulfills what God predicted.
4. Christianity was founded on the death of it's leader.
5. God did not stand aloof from our suffering, Christianity teaches that God entered into our suffering with us.
6. He does not conquer despite suffering, he conquered through suffering.
7. Since the bible says that it is appointed everyman to die, why do you doubt God when it happens?
8. If God said his own people would suffer in this life why do you doubt him when it occurs?
9. For love to exist freewill must exist, for freewill to exist the ability to choose evil must exist, if evil exists suffering must exist.
10. The only way to guarantee that suffering would never exist is to take away freewill and turn us into automatons. Which would mean real love could not exist.


However I will grant you this. The presence of evil is the greatest obstacle to faith in a just God.

 

[Lyndon]

So basically, in heaven, God takes away evil and freewill and makes us automatons?