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Featured Where is the "simple life", where are the "simple cells"?

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by leroy, Jun 17, 2020.

  1. leroy

    leroy Well-Known Member

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    So basically what current abiogenesis hypothesis tell us is that life was originally “simple”(simpler than modern unicellular organisms) and evolved to become the complex life forms that we see today….

    So my question is: where is the “simple life” supposedly eukaryotes evolve from prokaryotes but we still have prokaryotes today, multicellular organisms evolved from unicellular organisms but we still have unicellular organisms today, land animals evolved from marine animals but we still have marine animals today, complex eyes/brains/feathers etc. evolved from simpler organs, but we still have simple organs today.

    So if complex cells evolved from simpler cells, where are these simple cells? Modern cells have all sorts of complex systems and molecular machinery inside, but supposedly the first cell was too simple and had none of this complex stuff.

    Note that natural selection doesn’t “what” to increase complexity, NS what’s to optimize the viability of an organism, it is perfectly reasonable and likely to say that at least in some environments “simple cells” didn’t had any selective pressure to become more complex so shouldn’t there be some populations of simple cells all over the world?

    With simple I mean “simple enough to have come in to existence by chance and/or by natural mechanisms.

    I am assuming that your view is that ancient cells where much simpler than any modern cell if this is not your view, then you don’t have to answer.
     
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  2. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    You have done a great job of demonstrating just how little you know (or want to know) about evolution.
     
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  3. columbus

    columbus yawn <ignore> yawn

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    Hypothesis doesn't tell you anything. A hypothesis is a question, formed in a way that people can research and gather data on the subject. Data which may confirm or falsify the hypothesis.
    Tom
     
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  4. BibleTales001

    BibleTales001 Only seeking truth

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    I'm assuming your interest is in evolution?
     
  5. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    No. His interest is in misrepresenting it. :D
     
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  6. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    @leroy

    The hypothesised first proto-bacteria are of course gone. The have been replaced by more performant organism like bacteria themselves who evolved from those first proto-bacteria in a fashion that is not unlike how our current species of scorpions have replaced other, more ancient species of scorpions.
     
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  7. BibleTales001

    BibleTales001 Only seeking truth

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    How would you represent evolution?
     
  8. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    1. 99% of all species don't exist any more. We lost all the non-avian dinosaurs. So extinction isn't unusual, it's the norm.
    2. The environment in which the first primitive cells lived is most likely no longer existent on earth. The original atmosphere contained little to no free oxygen.
     
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  9. BibleTales001

    BibleTales001 Only seeking truth

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    So I'm curious, can evolution dictate the future?
     
  10. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    The process by which, once you have replication of inherited traits, natural selection causes populations of organisms to adapt, over many generations, to their environment. There are a lot more bells and whistles to it, but that is the core of it, I would say.
     
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  11. columbus

    columbus yawn <ignore> yawn

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    No.
    Evolution is an emergent property of biological reality on earth. It doesn't dictate anything, it's just a description of what can be observed.
    Tom
     
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  12. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    No it's the other way round: the future environment dictates the direction of evolution, for any given population of organisms.
     
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  13. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    Dictate, no, Most events that had radical influence on evolution were random like the Chicxulub impact that killed the dinosaurs.
    But aside from those random events, evolution can predict some changes. We know that species will adapt to an environment if the changes aren't too radical. We know that one species that gets separated will split into two species (though we can only give statistical chances when that will happen).
     
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  14. BibleTales001

    BibleTales001 Only seeking truth

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    I assume you believe that everything started with a small singularity and expandad and that humans evolved from apes.
     
  15. columbus

    columbus yawn <ignore> yawn

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    It would be more accurate to say that the best, most rigorous, evidence leads educated people to those conclusions.

    "Believe", in this context, is a very messy word.
    Tom
     
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  16. leroy

    leroy Well-Known Member

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    Translation, “I don’t know the answer, I know that this is a good objection against naturalism, but I don’t what to admit it, therefore I will make a personal attack and try to sound smart. “
     
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  17. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    You are talking suddenly about cosmology? That's off-topic, so I'll leave that to one side, if you don't mind.

    Regarding human evolution, yes of course, I am an educated man. Humans not only evolved from apes but are apes. Every schoolchild knows this.
     
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  18. BibleTales001

    BibleTales001 Only seeking truth

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    If human beings are the ultimate evolved form of apes. Wouldn't that mean that apes should be extinct?
     
  19. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    I just said it first, just about every post that follows reflects the same sentiment. But i know you just don't want to see it.
     
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  20. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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