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WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT IS ABOLISHED?

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
OK, but why should I care? Why do you? Do you think that makes people worse people? I think being MAGA makes people worse.

Oh, I don't know. Stalin (9 to 60 million killed) was Marxist, Mao (40 to 80 million dead) was Marxist, Pol Pot was a Marxist (2 million dead), and HItler's (70 million dead) national socialist, and the Marxist BLM & fascist antifa protesters (25 killed in "mostly peaceful" protest), making
Marxist socialism kind of is hard on the working people. Thankfully the 2nd amendment MAGA come armed and ready, and Marxist and BLM stay out of the U.S. fly over country, the home of the deplorables. They don't take kindly to the rich white nonexistent fascist Antifa crowd either. When the "cities fall", as they will per Revelation 16:19, the doors will be "closed" to the snow flake progressive woke elite. (Isaiah 26:20). Right now, the Progressive Mayor of Atlanta, doesn't want anything to do with your nonexistent Antifa.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
There is no scripture for these teachings which have led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus given in Matthew 15:3-9.
Here's the problem I have with anyone insisting that something must be found word for word in Scripture that dictates a particular written practice. This practice of religious formulas was gradual and preceded the written word of which were Paul's writings. As Jewish Christians they met their obligation to the Sabbath by going to the synagogue, followed by the 'eighth', the first day of the week, for them, the 'Lord's Day' for the breaking of bread, the Eucharist. Scripture clearly exhibits the belief of the early church.
Yet you simply ignore Scripture's own account.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Stalin (9 to 60 million killed) was Marxist, Mao (40 to 80 million dead) was Marxist, Pol Pot was a Marxist (2 million dead)
Then maybe we should avoid violent authoritarian regimes. Their Marxism doesn't make them killers just as their atheism doesn't, another familiar trope from the atheophobic community. Most Marxists and atheists are decent, gentle people.
HItler's (70 million dead) national socialist
Good point. It's the authoritarians that we need to avoid, whether they claim to support Marxism or not. They are all fascists, however. Hitler was no different from the rest already named. Nor would Trump be if sufficiently empowered. These men all dark triad people. It's a mental defect, a personality disorder characterized by these three (sometimes, a fourth element, sadism, is added making it a dark tetrad, Trump and Vlad the Impaler being archetypes of that). From Wiki::
Marxist BLM & fascist antifa protesters
It makes no difference what fraction of BLM are Marxist. Or Catholic. Or cosplayers. Or baseball fans.
When the "cities fall", as they will per Revelation 16:19, the doors will be "closed" to the snow flake progressive woke elite. (Isaiah 26:20).
You've managed to integrate the talking points from your pastor with those from conservative indoctrination media talking heads. And I think you left out political correctness, social justice warrior, and cancel culture from your list of conservative memes intended to derogate empathy and tolerance.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Then maybe we should avoid violent authoritarian regimes. Their Marxism doesn't make them killers just as their atheism doesn't, another familiar trope from the atheophobic community. Most Marxists and atheists are decent, gentle people.
The "godless" humanitarian Marxist/socialist, who are all for self and world improvement, by the establishing of their own subjective woke ethics and policies, who come down on their anti woke enemies with heavily armed storm troopers to intimidate them, often in the early morning hours under the cover of darkness. Maybe the current woke president should lay off of his producing "authoritarian" executive orders, which are in place until the Supreme Court is able to strike them down for them being unconstitutional. Yeah, the dictators of Marxist and terroristic countries such as China, Russia, should take self-help classes in order to alter their actions with regards to killing those they call Marxist and terrorist. The Progressive, Marxist, Hanoi Jane Fonda, came up with the best solution, just kill anyone with opposing views with regards to killing the unborn. Yeah, I think you have something there. The problem with Progressives, is they think they can produce a new creation by use of their words, using fake media, until realities comes eventually crashing down.
.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I make a distinction between Christianity on paper and Christianity as rendered by believers and the church.
The distinction I make is between the ideals that are taught, and the students and teachers at different levels of mastery. This is saying sort of the same thing, but with a little clear distinction. The issue is not the teachings. The issue are the schools that don't teach it very well. Because the teachers themselves are hacks, the students rarely rise above that themselves to the ideals of the teachings themselves.
Apologists frequently point to the book, but I look at Christendom to understand the religion.
Masters also point to the book, and are not doing what apologists are doing, which is trying to market religion to consumers with quasi logic arguments. For me personally, the teachings are things that leap out to me that match my own personal experience. They are ways to express them through their metaphoric nature (something I know you don't think exists in them).
Believers frequently say that those people aren't true Christians
There are some who clearly don't even attempt to follow any of the basic principles at all, and simply use the religion as a tool of power over others to manipulate and exploit them. I'd say it's safe to say they aren't sincere at all and are not in it for any spiritual reasons at all.

But for those who do have a sincere intent, then it's really a matter of skill or maturity, from novice to master, just as it is in any path that requires discipline and dedication, such as learning Tai Chi, for instance.

If I went to a park and saw a group of 50 Tai Chi students doing the form, and the vast majority of them were not doing it very well at all, should I conclude that Tai Chi should be dismissed because of them? But isn't that what you are in essence suggesting?
there is no behavioral test for being Christian for me - just an ideological one - the acceptance of Jesus being who others say he was and is.
What you are saying you reject, is what I reject as well. Someone simply "accepting Jesus as their lord and savior" is not at all the test. Jesus himself made that very clear. "By their fruits you shall know them". There has to be changes to the interior of the person, that brings about changes to the exterior. Just saying "yes" and then nothing changes, is nothing at all.

I laugh at how some Christians, particularly legalists will say those fruits are the "fruit of correct beliefs", or the "fruit of obeying the 10 commandments". That's nonsense of course. The sort of fruit that is spiritual fruit are things like love, compassion, forgiveness, non-judgmentalness, mercy, kindness, gentleness, and such. "Obeying the law" is nothing without those. But those who have love in their hearts, will naturally do no harm to others and thus 'fulfill the law' without even trying.

So between the idealized Christian and the one on the street, which is the true Christian and which is the fictitious one?
Love. It's hard for people to understand this, but it is that simple. They need to make it harder, because it supports their ego.
It did me. I walked into a fundamentalist church as an atheist with a girlfriend in 1973 (later a wife), went to the altar, and left it on the road to fundamentalism Christianity for most of the next decade.
This fascinates me. I'd like to hear your story more at some point. In all our discussions I don't think know your background that well, other than the basics.

What I can say to this though is this. Speaking of my own personal experience converting into a fundamentalist church in my earlier 20s. I wasn't religious beforehand either, though I was looking for some spiritual guidance to build upon my Awakening experience I had when I was 18 (I've mentioned this to you in the past, I'm sure).

I grew up in a non-religious home, that was typical modernist home, with modernist values. My father was very much a rationalist, non-religionist. In fact he was quite cynical towards religion, probably much like you in certain regards. So naturally having be raised in that home, as opposed to a pre-modern traditionalist, or magical-mythic thinking household, my mind was fairly logical in how I analyzed things rationally, as opposed to connect the magical dots through prerational magical thinking, and so forth.

Yet for some reason, of the numerous different Christian groups I had more or less "interviewed" to find one explore to find some direction for my spiritual growth, I seized upon a very literalist, black and white thinking, pre-modern, pre-rational, magic-mythic fundamentalist church. I had to suspend my rational mind in the interest to find the spiritual nuggets buried in that magic-mythic heap.

That couldn't be sustained for too long by me however, as committing intellectual suicide for the sake of spiritual growth, was counterproductive to that. You cannot divorce the mind in spirituality, as spirituality encompasses the whole person, body, mind, emotions, psyche, reason, etc.

But it wasn't as simple as just one thing like that either, even though that too was a valid part of it. At that stage of my life-experience, I was more rigid and black and white in my thinking, so this "we have the truth, and everyone else but us is wrong" appealed to that type of thinking I was prone towards at the place in my life. (When I read the OP, that is what I see as well).

My thinking at that time found a home within that. Whereas today, the way my mind sees that everyone has a piece of the truth, and no one has a monopoly of truth itself, would be completely unable to fit into a fundamentalist "we've got the real truth" type of church.

I used to blame the church for making me a black and white thinker, because as I was moving away from that in myself, I naturally didn't want to take ownership of that in myself. But now I can see is that "like finds like", and I did for a time find myself at home within that.

Proof of this can be seen when you see fundamentalist Christians become atheists. Now they take that black and white thinking, and see that only science and reason is the true Light of the World, whereas before it was their belief in their deity, and the truth of the scripture that told them they were on the right side of the truth, and others but themselves were in darkness.

What the religion did do however, which you recognize, is that it reinforced and amplified that black and white thinking. So in that sense, yes it does promote it. But I chose it, like it or not. Today, that would not be a choice. At that time, it was my choice because it appealed to that part of me, which like it or not today, was and is still part of me in my own history.
 
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2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
I'm rather inclined to and adept at bipedal locomotion. It offers a lot more freedom than just being blown about by every wind of doctrine from Fox news and the like. ;)
But if you chose to be a "nekton" they do not have that choice. And as for my choice, I choose not to follow fake news which say the Biden tapes were Russian fakes, and the Russia tapes were real, all based on deep state lies. Kind of like a 1984 scenario happening in real life. But apparently "fake news" has consequences, as well as votes from the walking dead people. One is not "free" if they walk in darkness. I prefer Breitbart News Network
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I prefer to read what is in the scriptures not read what is not in the scripture and pray for Gods guidance and help through His Spirit
You fail to understand that all human beings, upon either hearing or reading anything, from the daily newspaper to scripture, have to interpret the words with their own minds. It is impossible have a direct transmission of knowledge bypassing these filters that everyone who is alive has to use in order to understand anything whatsoever from any source outside of themselves.

No one is invoking supernatural powers to bypass this process, except maybe you, because you think that somehow just because you read something on a page, and your mind tells you that's what that something means, that that is what it means, and if anyone sees something differently than you do, they have to be wrong.

Do you believe this is true about yourself? That if you read scripture one way, your understanding is what God meant, and when others read it differently, then that is not what God meant, that is their minds polluting it? Do you not see how delusional this way of thinking ultimately is?

I won't even address anything beyond this, because if you're stuck at this, you can never be wrong about anything at all. Because you justify your beliefs as the direct mind of God itself in your thinking. Do you believe this about yourself? If someone interprets a verse of scripture differently than you do, are you right and they wrong by default?

Please be honest with all of us on this question.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
But if you chose to be a "nekton" they do not have that choice. And as for my choice, I choose not to follow fake news which say the Biden tapes were Russian fakes, and the Russia tapes were real, all based on deep state lies. Kind of like a 1984 scenario happening in real life. But apparently "fake news" has consequences, as well as votes from the walking dead people. One is not "free" if they walk in darkness. I prefer Breitbart News Network
I don't get a strong sense of bipedalism from you, actually. ;)
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
For me personally, the teachings are things that leap out to me that match my own personal experience. They are ways to express them through their metaphoric nature (something I know you don't think exists in them).
As you know, I find no value in holy books. You say you do, as do many others, but they can't give me anything specific that I would call valuable to me. I do find value in metaphor as you saw with the plankton-nekton metaphor, but I also question the use of the words metaphor and allegory when referring to myths. Why aren't they called wrong guesses, which is what all creation myths are? Metaphor and allegory are specified literary forms, like haiku. Why not call the myths haikus? The answer probably is because they don't meet the criteria for haikus. But they also don't match the description of metaphor or allegory.

When I wrote my metaphor, I was using symbols to represent known ideas. Plankton stand for those who go where the intellectual currents (indoctrination) take them, and nekton those who actively choose their paths. Myths are nothing like that. Their authors aren't substituting symbols for known people or events. They don't know what happened, they guessed, and they guessed wrong. OK. No harm, but why is it so difficult to say so?

Allegory is a longer metaphor, a story, often disguising a political opinion as with Gulliver's Travels, which is a political allegory in which fantastical fictional characters are substituted for prominent historical figures like Walpole in the British politics of Swift's era, who was symbolized by the rope dancer Flimnap. We know what these things stand for, and they are specific, not place-holders for what is not known. That's what makes them metaphor and allegory.

Myths don't do that, but it seems that almost nobody wants to call a myth a wrong guess, so they use these other words.
There are some who clearly don't even attempt to follow any of the basic principles at all, and simply use the religion as a tool of power over others to manipulate and exploit them. I'd say it's safe to say they aren't sincere at all and are not in it for any spiritual reasons at all.
That doesn't make them non-Christian to me. That's what some Christians do - many, in fact - and it in part characterizes Christianity and the church.
If I went to a park and saw a group of 50 Tai Chi students doing the form, and the vast majority of them were not doing it very well at all, should I conclude that Tai Chi should be dismissed because of them? But isn't that what you are in essence suggesting?
Assuming that they're not all beginners, you can decide how well that instructor generates martial artists, just as I judge how well the various religions and denominations generate people. Our friend 2nd pillar is a good example of what I mean. He's a product of Christianity, even if many other Christians would have a problem with his "witness" and say that he's not a true Christian if he's going to post as he does, but I would argue with them in his defense. He's as true a Christian to me as anybody else who believes that Jesus is who it is said he is.
Jesus himself made that very clear. "By their fruits you shall know them".
No argument here. Some of the fruit is rotten. But it also doesn't matter to me what is attributed to Jesus, just how it's rendered by believers.
There has to be changes to the interior of the person, that brings about changes to the exterior. Just saying "yes" and then nothing changes, is nothing at all.
If all that happens to one is that he goes from not believing the core doctrine of Christianity to being a believer, then he became a Christian at that moment even if nothing else changed. Why would I exclude such data points in assessing the efficacy of the religion at people building? Failures are as meaningful as successes.

Actually, I've been doing this for all of the major denominations since I began message boarding with believers. With each, we see a spectrum of types. Likewise with the humanists, who are the control group. Which religions do you suppose I find more moral than humanist values? Which of these cohort have the highest intellectual and moral scores? In other words, which is best at people building? You described a low form of believer - "some who clearly don't even attempt to follow any of the basic principles at all, and simply use the religion as a tool of power." What fraction of people espousing humanism fit that description? How much immorality or hypocrisy do you see in that subset?
The "godless" humanitarian Marxist/socialist, who are all for self and world improvement, by the establishing of their own subjective woke ethics and policies, who come down on their anti woke enemies with heavily armed storm troopers to intimidate them, often in the early morning hours under the cover of darkness. Maybe the current woke president should lay off of his producing "authoritarian" executive orders, which are in place until the Supreme Court is able to strike them down for them being unconstitutional. Yeah, the dictators of Marxist and terroristic countries such as China, Russia, should take self-help classes in order to alter their actions with regards to killing those they call Marxist and terrorist. The Progressive, Marxist, Hanoi Jane Fonda, came up with the best solution, just kill anyone with opposing views with regards to killing the unborn. Yeah, I think you have something there. The problem with Progressives, is they think they can produce a new creation by use of their words, using fake media, until realities comes eventually crashing down.
Fake news.
I choose not to follow fake news
Too late. That ship has sailed. You're a cornucopia of conservative misinformation.
You have the correct feeling, for I am sitting down.
Yes, but when you want to relocate, will you crawl on all fours, use your knuckles or stand upright?
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Here's the problem I have with anyone insisting that something must be found word for word in Scripture that dictates a particular written practice. This practice of religious formulas was gradual and preceded the written word of which were Paul's writings. As Jewish Christians they met their obligation to the Sabbath by going to the synagogue, followed by the 'eighth', the first day of the week, for them, the 'Lord's Day' for the breaking of bread, the Eucharist. Scripture clearly exhibits the belief of the early church.
Yet you simply ignore Scripture's own account.
Believing and obeying the scriptures, is not a practice of religious formula, it is a practice of faith and following Jesus as our example and our salvation depends on us believing and obeying what Gods Word says....
  • Matthew 4:4 4, But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God
  • Ephesians 2:8 We are saved by Gods grace through faith
  • Romans 10:17 Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God
  • Romans 14:23 Whatsoever is not of faith is sin...
  • John 3:36 He that believes on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him.
  • 2 Timothy 3:15-16 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness
According to the scriptures, sin is the transgression of Gods law and not believing and following what Gods Word says. That is what the scriptures say that are inspired by God (not me) word for word (1 John 3:4; Romans 14:23; Romans 3:20 and Romans 7:7) and according to James in James 2:10-11 if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin and breaking all of them. Check the bible and read the OP here. There is no scripture from Genesis to Revelation that says Gods 4th commandment is no longer a part of Gods 10 commandments and a requirement for Christian living, just the same as there is no scripture that teaches that we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. Sunday worship is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word handed down by the Roman Catholic Church to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9. Sin is the transgression of the law breaking anyone of Gods 10 commandments is sin according to the scriptures. Gods 4th commandments is one of Gods 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is according to the scriptures (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:10-11).

Jesus says in His own words if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead us to break the commandments of God in Matthew 15:3-9 we are not worshiping God and our hearts are far from him. So tell me who should we believe and follow; God or man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God when Jesus says those who do this are not worshiping God? Sin will keep us out of Gods kingdom. The Church's have fallen away from God and His Word *Revelation 18:1-5. God has His people in every Church (John 10:16) but the hour is coming and now is that the true worshipers will worship the father in Spirit and in truth. (John 4:23-24). God is calling us all out from following man-made teachings and traditions that have led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God back to His Word. Gods sheep will hear His voice (the Word) and follow Him. Those who will not hear and will not follow do so because they are not His sheep (John 10:26-27). They do not hear Gods calling because they are a apart of the many that were called but did not hear and follow and were not chosen (see Matthew 22:14; Matthew 7:13-23). Its time to unlearn the lies we have all been taught at Sunday school.

Take Care. (Prayerfully check the scriptures for yourself dear friend)
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
You fail to understand that all human beings, upon either hearing or reading anything, from the daily newspaper to scripture, have to interpret the words with their own minds. It is impossible have a direct transmission of knowledge bypassing these filters that everyone who is alive has to use in order to understand anything whatsoever from any source outside of themselves.
No that is not true at all. It is you who fails to understand that according to the scriptures, the bible is the inspired words of God to mankind that we are to believe and follow in order to receive Gods salvation (2 Timothy 3:16; John 8:31-36). Scripture makes us wise unto salvation (2 Timothy 3:15) and if we do not have faith in scripture that comes from Gods Words *Romans 10:17 and have the fruit of faith which is obeying what the scriptures say, we can lose our salvation because not believing and obeying (faith) scripture is sin (John 3:31; Romans 14:23; 1 John 3:4) What you fail to understand is that we cannot know Gods Words unless God is our guide and teacher (Isaiah 55:8-9) through His Spirit we cannot know Gods Word (see John 7:17; John 14:26; John 16:13; 1 John 2:27) which is a part of Gods new covenant promise written in Hebrews 8:10-12 and that the fruit of our faith is seen by obeying what Gods Word says (see James 3:13-26; Matthew 7:13-23). The filter to know God is seeking to know and follow Gods Word and praying for Gods Spirit to be our guide and teacher. According to the scriptures, if we do not believe and obey Gods Word and ask Jesus for His Spirit to be our guide and teacher as cannot know God and are still lost in our sins. This is why Jesus says truly I say unto you, unless a man is born again he cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven. Those who are born of Gods Spirit (1 John 3:4-9) are all those who believe and obey what Gods Word says (Matthew 7:21-23), not those who do not believe and do not obey what Gods Word says. John calls these the children of the devil in 1 John 3:9-10.
No one is invoking supernatural powers to bypass this process, except maybe you, because you think that somehow just because you read something on a page, and your mind tells you that's what that something means, that that is what it means, and if anyone sees something differently than you do, they have to be wrong.
Thank you for proving what I just wrote to you in the previous section (please see 2 Timothy 3:15-16; John 8:31-36; Isaiah 55:8-9; John 7:17; John 14:26; John 16:13; 1 John 2:27. We must be careful to seek this supernatural power by believing and following His word is we want to be born again to walk in His Spirit (Galatians 5:16).
Do you believe this is true about yourself? That if you read scripture one way, your understanding is what God meant, and when others read it differently, then that is not what God meant, that is their minds polluting it? Do you not see how delusional this way of thinking ultimately is? I won't even address anything beyond this, because if you're stuck at this, you can never be wrong about anything at all. Because you justify your beliefs as the direct mind of God itself in your thinking. Do you believe this about yourself? If someone interprets a verse of scripture differently than you do, are you right and they wrong by default? Please be honest with all of us on this question.
See above. Lets not make excuses for sin and read into the scriptures what the scriptures do not say or teach. If we do not have Gods Spirit we cannot know Gods Words (Isaiah 55:8-9; Isaiah 59:2) and God only gives His Spirit to those who believe and obey him according to John 3:36 and Acts 5:29; 32. Sin will keep us all out of Gods kingdom and make us a part of the many that were called and not of the few that are Gods chosen (Matthew 22:14; Matthew 7:13-23). There is no scripture from Genesis to Revelation that says Gods 4th commandment is no longer a part of Gods 10 commandments and a requirement for Christian living, just the same as there is no scripture that teaches that we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. Sunday worship is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9. Sin is the transgression of the law breaking anyone of Gods 10 commandments is sin according to the scriptures. Gods 4th commandments is one of Gods 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is according to the scriptures (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:10-11).

Take Care
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Yes, but when you want to relocate, will you crawl on all fours, use your knuckles or stand upright?
Surprising as it may seem, I can crawl, as I just did, in repairing the muffler under my truck, and I can stand, and I can walk. I mean, it might seem a stretch, for someone wishing to be on par with a "nekton".
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Here's the problem I have with anyone insisting that something must be found word for word in Scripture that dictates a particular written practice. This practice of religious formulas was gradual and preceded the written word of which were Paul's writings. As Jewish Christians they met their obligation to the Sabbath by going to the synagogue, followed by the 'eighth', the first day of the week, for them, the 'Lord's Day' for the breaking of bread, the Eucharist. Scripture clearly exhibits the belief of the early church.
Yet you simply ignore Scripture's own account.
The writings of the associates of Paul are not "Scripture". And of course, the self professed Pharisee Paul probably "broke bread" every day of the week. It was not unleavened bread, but nice soft leavened bread. As for the Jews, they ate the "unleavened" bread on the "Feast of Unleavened Bread" which started on the 15th of Nissan, one week every year.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
No that is not true at all. It is you who fails to understand that according to the scriptures, the bible is the inspired words of God to mankind
You still do not grasp what I am saying here. Even if Jesus himself stood in front of you in person and spoke using words and sentences and the normal structures of language, directly to your face, you would still have to interpret his words though the filters of your mind, your culture, your life experiences, your bias, and beliefs, and language influences. Every single thing that you think about with your mind about anything at all, reading scripture, hearing me speak, reading my words as I type them to you, ALL of it has to be interpreted by you.

At best it is "God's word" as understood and interpreted by you, just as it is "God's word" understood and interpreted by me. I could stand in front of crowd of people and directly tell them my thoughts about something, and every single one of them will have their own understanding of what those words mean to them, based upon their life experiences and the ways their minds think. You included. So you do not get to excuse yourself as part of the process here.

Now, you can claim special insights because you claim the Spirit is guiding you, but at best that is an illumination, some extra perception that makes the meaning more significant to you, but that is still not an infallible interpretation. To think you are not interpreting the Bible through your own biases and experiences, that your ideas about what it says and means is infallible, is blatantly delusional.

that we are to believe and follow in order to receive Gods salvation (2 Timothy 3:16; John 8:31-36).
Every single one of those verses support what I have been saying, and refutes your views about them. Those are God's words not mine. If you don't want to believe them as I understand them as they are written on the pages in black and white, then that must be because of sin in your life. ;)

What, you don't believe that? How come? Why is it different when you say that?
Thank you for proving what I just wrote to you in the previous section (please see 2 Timothy 3:15-16; John 8:31-36; Isaiah 55:8-9; John 7:17; John 14:26; John 16:13; 1 John 2:27. We must be careful to seek this supernatural power by believing and following His word is we want to be born again to walk in His Spirit (Galatians 5:16).
Again, my understanding of all of those verse means something radically different to me than how you are interpreting them. You're not arguing against me, these are God's words, not mine. You don't understand them, because you embrace sin and lawlessness. You are risking your salvation not believing God's words. Don't believe me, believe what the Bible says.

You see how that works? How come when you say it, it's valid, but when others say the same thing to you, they're wrong? Are you infallible and they are not? You're special this way?
 
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3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
You still do not grasp what I am saying here. Even if Jesus himself stood in front of you in person and spoke using words and sentences and the normal structures of language, directly to your face, you would still have to interpret his words though the filters of your mind, your culture, your life experiences, your bias, and beliefs, and language influences. Every single thing that you think about with your mind about anything at all, reading scripture, hearing me speak, reading my words as I type them to you, ALL of it has to be interpreted by you.
Your words have no truth in them as you seek to deny Gods Words with your words in order to justify sin which is defined in the scriptures as breaking Gods law and not believing and following what Gods Word say (see 1 John 3:4; Romans 14:23). As posted in the post you are quoting from and the scriptures that are in disagreement with you, what you fail to understand is that according to the scriptures, the bible is the inspired words of God to mankind that we are to believe and follow in order to receive Gods salvation (2 Timothy 3:16; John 8:31-36). Scripture makes us wise unto salvation (2 Timothy 3:15) and if we do not have faith in scripture that comes from Gods Words *Romans 10:17 and have the fruit of faith which is obeying what the scriptures say, we can lose our salvation because not believing and obeying (faith) scripture is sin (John 3:31; Romans 14:23; 1 John 3:4) What you fail to understand is that we cannot know Gods Words unless God is our guide and teacher (Isaiah 55:8-9) through His Spirit we cannot know Gods Word (see John 7:17; John 14:26; John 16:13; 1 John 2:27) which is a part of Gods new covenant promise written in Hebrews 8:10-12 and that the fruit of our faith is seen by obeying what Gods Word says (see James 3:13-26; Matthew 7:13-23). The filter to know God is seeking to know and follow Gods Word and praying for Gods Spirit to be our guide and teacher. According to the scriptures, if we do not believe and obey Gods Word and ask Jesus for His Spirit to be our guide and teacher as cannot know God and are still lost in our sins. This is why Jesus says truly I say unto you, unless a man is born again he cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven. Those who are born of Gods Spirit (1 John 3:4-9) are all those who believe and obey what Gods Word says (Matthew 7:21-23), not those who do not believe and do not obey what Gods Word says. John calls these the children of the devil in 1 John 3:9-10.
At best it is "God's word" as understood and interpreted by you, just as it is "God's word" understood and interpreted by me. I could stand in front of crowd of people and directly tell them my thoughts about something, and every single one of them will have their own understanding of what those words mean to them, based upon their life experiences and the ways their minds think. You included. So you do not get to excuse yourself as part of the process here. Now, you can claim special insights because you claim the Spirit is guiding you, but at best that is an illumination, some extra perception that makes the meaning more significant to you, but that is still not an infallible interpretation. To think you are not interpreting the Bible through your own biases and experiences, that your ideas about what it says and means is infallible, is blatantly delusional.
Once again that is not true at all. According to the scriptures, God only gives His Spirit to those who believe and obey His Words and to those who ask and seek to know God and the truth of His Word (see Acts 5:29; 32; John 7:17 etc). John tells us that there is a test to know if someone is from God or not from God in 1 John 2:3-4 where he says; "Hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. So for anyone to come to us claiming they know what the bible teaches and their teaching is one that leads someone into sin we can know that there is no truth in their words. You seek to read into the scriptures what is not written in the scripture in order to teach lawlessness which God calls sin. We should be careful to pray that God will guide us and teach us His Words and consider scripture context and read and believe what the scriptures say and not read into scripture what is not said which is what you are doing. Therefore we are best to believe and follow what Gods Word says not disobey and not believe what Gods Words say if they are in disagreement with what we believe. I believe it is a red flag if we believe something in the scriptures and the bible says word for word what we believe is not true. Therefore we ought to believe and obey what Gods Word says over man-made teachings and traditions that have led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus given in Matthew 15:3-9. There is no scripture from Genesis to Revelation that says Gods 4th commandment is no longer a part of Gods 10 commandments and a requirement for Christian living, just the same as there is no scripture that teaches that we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. Sunday worship is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9. Sin is the transgression of the law breaking anyone of Gods 10 commandments is sin according to the scriptures. Gods 4th commandments is one of Gods 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is according to the scriptures (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:10-11).

Take Care.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Your words have no truth in them as you seek to deny Gods Words with your words in order to justify sin
So, in other words, if I disagree with you, I am disagreeing with God because I love sin? If I didn't love sin, I would agree with you, right?

Friend, your words have no Truth in them. They come from your fear of not have infallible beliefs. Good luck to you with that.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The writings of the associates of Paul are not "Scripture".
Which Christian group are you part of that teaches this, exactly? I'm unfamiliar with the particular sect you speak from that teaches Paul is a false prophet. I'd love to learn more about their teachings! Do they have a website you are able to share with me?
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Which Christian group are you part of that teaches this, exactly?
I am not a part of the Gentile church, but I get the information directly from Yeshua, the "son of man's" message per Matthew 13:24-30, and the historical record, with respect to Athanasius being the bishop of Alexandria, and coming up with what is the generally used NT canon, in the year 367 A.D. , just google Athanasius and the "Christian" NT canon, it should take you to the record.
 
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