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WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT IS ABOLISHED?

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
...but you are saying "if you come home to me, I will love you."
Based on what you are trying to say, would it not be less misleading, and less confusing to say, "if you come home to me, you will experience my love." In other words... "you will bathe in my love, or be engulfed in my love"?
It's saying, if you come home, I will meet you with open arms. It's saying, "my love is an open door. Don't think that I don't love you. I do. So you can come home and that is what you will find. Not my rejection of you". In other words, it's invitational. "If you come home, I will love you, and not turn you away". "If you come home, I will greet you with the love I have always had for you, so you may trust that you will be met with opened arms, and not my rejection despite the guilt and shame you feel towards yourself. I will love you. I promise that is what you will find." In other words, God's unconditional love.

That is the story of the Prodigal Son. The father ran out to meet him. The only reason he did that, is because he already loved him! He didn't start loving him, because his son made him happy! That's what conditional love smells like. That's a narcissistic love, "I will love you if you please me". That's is not true love, and it certainly is not Agape Love. I know this is hard to grasp for those who haven't experienced what unconditional love is in their lives.

That would more explain what you are saying, since the love is there, available for all to come and benefit. Like when God says, come take life's water free. It's available to all, but you have to come take it.
I understand that.
Yes. God doesn't love you because you obey him. God is Love. But you are able to enjoy that love, if you do the right thing and not create problems for yourself.

However, that is not what those verses are saying. They state that God's and Jesus' actions are a response to person's actions.
Only because you are reading them through the lens of what conditional love looks like. I don't read that way. The story of the Prodigal Son does not read like conditional love at all. The father always loved the son, and when the son accepting that invitational love that the father offered, the father ran out to meet him. He didn't say, "Well, I guess I can love him now because he came home". That is not real love. That is not the Love of God.

I understand that this is not toward the ignorant, but rather the willful "haters of God".
I get that. It's what you are saying that I don't get... Not that I don't understand your view. I just don't agree with it.

The Bible says God's very being hates a lover of violence.
God cannot hate, because God is Love. Hate cannot and does not exist within God. To say God "hates violence", is to say that it is absolutely contrary to the nature of God's being. It's a figure of speech, not a description of God. Where the is Love, hate cannot exist. It is extinguished by it completely. There is no darkness in Light. God's very being is Love itself. I know this from firsthand direct experience, as well as from what scripture affirms.
Tell me something though.
You love your children unconditionally.
If you were an executioner, and your son was found guilty of murder, and sentenced to death by firing squad. Would you point the gun at your son standing in the execution square, and pull the trigger?
Well, for one thing I don't believe in capital punishment, so I would not kill anyone. But let's say my child committed murder and was sentenced to life in prison. I would still love him, of course.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Well, for one thing I don't believe in capital punishment, so I would not kill anyone. But let's say my child committed murder and was sentenced to life in prison. I would still love him, of course.
The thing is, God does use capital punishment, so are you saying you cannot use this scenario to put yourself in "God's shoes"? Or are you saying you are better than God?
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
God cannot hate, because God is Love. Hate cannot and does not exist within God. To say God "hates violence", is to say that it is absolutely contrary to the nature of God's being. It's a figure of speech, not a description of God. Where the is Love, hate cannot exist. It is extinguished by it completely. There is no darkness in Light. God's very being is Love itself. I know this from firsthand direct experience, as well as from what scripture affirms.
You don't believe the Bible, right?
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Wrong. Anything anyone reads from scripture is their interpretation of the words. What you have shared is your interpretation of the the Bible. They are your words, when they come out of your mouth filtered by your interpretive lens. You don't get to escape responsibility for them by saying, "They're God's words, not mine!". That is a copout. They are your view of God's words. Let's be 100% clear about that. And yet you do not think there is any problem with your interpretation? You claim it's not your words but God's, as if you are not yourself interpreting them. You cannot claim "It's not my words, but God's," pretending your understanding is not an interpretation of them by you.
Not really dear friend. There is nothing wrong in anything I have said or posted here in this OP. When the bible says that breaking Gods law is sin it means that if we break Gods law we commit sin. There is no other way that the bible can be interpreted because that is what the bible says. So it is not a "copout" to believe and obey what Gods Word says. Obeying Gods Word is the fruit of genuine faith according to James in James 2:13-26 and anything less is the dead faith of devils. This is why Jesus says by their fruits you shall know them, that is who is from God and who is not which agrees with what John says in 1 John 2:3-4 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. So believing what the scriptures say word for word is not putting your interpretation into the scripture it is simply believing and obeying what Gods Word says. On the other hand those who read into the scriptures what is not written in the scriptures put their interpretation into Gods Word and if their interpretations are used to justify their sins we can know that it is not from God and the doctrine of devils because their teachings and fruit is sin which is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil according to John in 1 John 3:4-10. Gods people do not practice sin according to the scriptures which is defined as the transgression of the law and not believing and following what Gods Word says (see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Romans 14:23). So lets be careful not to seek to read into the scriptures what is not written in the scriptures or its context to seek to justify our sins as this can keep us out of Gods kingdom (2 Peter 3:14-18).
What people are not believing, is you and your understanding. That is all. They are not rejecting God. They are rejecting your views of God. Don't pretend that by others rejecting your opinions about God, that that equals them rejecting God. You don't get to hide your biases behind God like that. Have you ever read Romans 14? It pertains directly to your insistence others understand God and practice religion the way you do, or they are sinning against God. Care to discuss that chapter with me?
You quoting Romans 14 is a very good example of what I was posting above in the last section about those who try and read into the scriptures what is not in the scriptures in order to justify sin. Romans 14 is about eating and not eating on days that man esteem over other days and judging others in this regard. It is not talking about days that God esteems. There is no mention in the whole book of Roman or that Paul is talking about Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandments, yet many try to read into the scriptures what is not written in the scriptures and twist the scriptures in order to justify their sins. According to the scriptures many also rejected the prophets, Jesus and the Apostles. All of them were either persecuted or put to death by those who did not want to believe and follow what Gods Word says. According to Jesus many are called but only the few will be Gods chosen in Matthew 22:14 and again in Matthew 7:13-14 "Enter you in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads to life, and few there be that find it. So it was in the days of the prophets, Jesus and the Apostles what makes you think it will be any different prior to the second coming of Jesus? As for me I judge no man but you feel conviction of your sins because of the scriptures that have been shared with you because it is written in Matthew 3:19-20 this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. According to Jesus it is the words of God we accept or reject that will become our judge come judgement day in John 12:47-48. Therefore we should seek to believe and follow what Gods Word says (Romans 3:4) and not seek to justify sin and disobey Gods Word. That is the very definition of what sin is according to the scriptures (1 John 3:4; Romans 14:23). As demonstrated throughout this OP, there is not a single scripture in all the bible that says Gods 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. Sunday worship is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led the many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings given by Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9. Jesus tells us here that if we choose to follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God we are not worshiping God and our hearts are far from God. This will be the testing question that will be coming to each one of us. Who do we choose to believe and follow; God or man? For me only Gods word is true and we should believe and follow them (Romans 3:4).

Take Care dear friend.
 
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Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You don't believe the Bible, right?
I don't believe the Bible is the 4th person in the Trinity, but I do quote it quite often and agree with it. Are you saying because I don't read it the way do, I don't believe in God? Is that what you are trying to say here?
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
@3rdAngel what do you think of the following quote from this site?

THE MISSING COMMANDMENT
“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy” (Ex. 20:8-11).

The nine commandments already discussed are referred to many times in the New Testament, some quite explicitly. But one Old Testament commandment is not mentioned at all in the New Testament. Nowhere is there a requirement for New Testament believers to keep the Sabbath day. Why is there one commandment missing in the New Covenant with the Church, which was clearly present in the Old Covenant with Israel?

To find out why, we need to see the significance of Christ’s resurrection. Even while Jesus was with his disciples the Pharisees criticized his healing on the Sabbath as work! Legalism will go to any lengths to discredit acts of grace and mercy. But the Lord hinted that things were about to change, in declaring Himself Lord of the Sabbath. The new wine of His liberating teaching was too effervescent for the old wineskins of unyielding Judaism (Mk. 2:21-3:5).

After His ascension, the disciples met together on the first day of the week, Resurrection day, and not the Sabbath, the seventh day. Paul stayed seven days in Troas to break bread on the first day of the week (Acts 20:6-7). It was on the first day that the Corinthians were encouraged to take their offering for the impoverished believers in Jerusalem, presumably at the worship meeting (1 Cor. 16:2). There is ample evidence from the early Church that observing the first day had become the norm.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
@3rdAngel what do you think of the following quote from this site?

THE MISSING COMMANDMENT
“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy” (Ex. 20:8-11).

The nine commandments already discussed are referred to many times in the New Testament, some quite explicitly. But one Old Testament commandment is not mentioned at all in the New Testament. Nowhere is there a requirement for New Testament believers to keep the Sabbath day. Why is there one commandment missing in the New Covenant with the Church, which was clearly present in the Old Covenant with Israel?

To find out why, we need to see the significance of Christ’s resurrection. Even while Jesus was with his disciples the Pharisees criticized his healing on the Sabbath as work! Legalism will go to any lengths to discredit acts of grace and mercy. But the Lord hinted that things were about to change, in declaring Himself Lord of the Sabbath. The new wine of His liberating teaching was too effervescent for the old wineskins of unyielding Judaism (Mk. 2:21-3:5).

After His ascension, the disciples met together on the first day of the week, Resurrection day, and not the Sabbath, the seventh day. Paul stayed seven days in Troas to break bread on the first day of the week (Acts 20:6-7). It was on the first day that the Corinthians were encouraged to take their offering for the impoverished believers in Jerusalem, presumably at the worship meeting (1 Cor. 16:2). There is ample evidence from the early Church that observing the first day had become the norm.
Hi @Brian2. Your website is not being truthful or does not know the bible or new testament. All the 10 commandments are repeated in the new testament and there is no scripture that says anywhere in the whole bible that Gods 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word against the very warnings of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9.

GOD'S 10 COMMANDMENTS REPEATED IN THE NEW COVENANT

1
You shall have no other gods before Me. (Luke 4:8; Matthew 4:10; Revelation 14:7)
2 You shall make no idols (John 4:24; Acts 15:20; 1 Corinthians 6:9; Ephesians 5:5; 1 Peter 4:3; 1 John 5:21; Revelation 2:14)
3 You shall not take the Name of the Lord your God in vain.
(1 Timothy 6:1, James 2:7)
4 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. – Binding on all Christians today -Hebrews 4:9 (Colossians 2:16 is in reference to the annual sabbaths in the feast days) (Mark 2:27-28, Hebrews 4:1-9; Matthew 12:8; Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56(Mark 2:28; Matthew 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matthew 16:24; 1; Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Revelations 1:10
5 Honour your father and mother. (Ephesians 6:1-2; Colossians 3:20; Matthew 15:4; Matthew 19:19)
6 You shall not murder (Matthew 5:44-45; Matt. 5:21-26; Romans 13:9; 1 Timothy 1:9; 1 John 3:15; James 2:11; Matthew 19:18)
7 You shall not commit adultery. (Matthew 5:28, 1 Cor. 5:11, 1 Cor. 6:18, Galatians 5:19, Hebrews 13:4, James 2:11, Matthew 19:19, Romans 13:9)
8 You shall not steal. (1 Corinthians 6:10, Romans 2:21, Mark 7:21, Ephesians 4:28, Romans 13:9, Matthew 19:18)
9 You shall not bear false witness. (Matthew 15:19, Ephesians 4:25, Col. 3:9; Matthew 19:18, Romans 13:9)
10 You shall not covet your neighbors possessions. (Luke 12:15, Romans 7:7, Ephesians 5:3, 1 Timothy 6:10, Hebrews 13:5, Romans 13:9)

JESUS AND THE APOSTLES OBEYED AND TAUGHT THE SABBATH
IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ....

1.
Jesus taught that it is lawful to do GOOD on the Sabbath? (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)

2. Jesus taught that God's Sabbath was made for mankind and not man for the Sabbath rebuking the tradtions of the Jew in regards to their traditions and interpretation around Sabbath keeping? (Mark 2:27-28; Matthew 12:8)

3. Jesus taught that he was the maker and creator of the Sabbath and the God of creation? (Hebrews 1:2; John 1:1-3; 14; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16-17; Mark 2:27)

4. Jesus is our example who kept the Sabbath as well as all those who followed him (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matt 16:24; Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

5. Jesus taught that anyone who breaks God's Commandments and teaches others to do so will not enter God's Kingdom? (Matt 5:19)

6. Jesus taught that not a jot or tittle will pass from God's LAW until heaven and earth pass away? (Matthew 5:18)

7. Jesus taught that on the two great commandments of LOVE to GOD and MAN hang ALL the LAW and the prophets (Matthew 22:36-40)

8. Paul warns us that those who do NOT believe and follow GOD do not enter into God's Sabbath rest because of their SINS and UNBELIEF (Hebrews 3-4)

9. Jesus, Paul, James, John and Peter taught there is 10 Commandments including the Sabbath and not 9 commandments and if you break one of God's Commandments you stand guilty before God of breaking all of them (James 2:8-12).

10. Timothy teaches that ALL SCRIPTURE (OLD AND NEW Testament) is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16)

Why would Jesus and the Apostles give us further instruction in relation to Sabbath keeping building on the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures if we no longer need to keep it? (Point 1, 2, 3, 6 and see previous section on Jesus teaching us about the Sabbath).

SIN is the transgression or breaking of God's Commandments (Romans 7:7; James 2:8-12; 1 John 3:4
Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN. God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27) Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9) There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day. Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God? In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

Take Care.
 
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blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Hey guys

Just wondering where is the scripture that says Gods 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus?

May God bless you as you seek to know Him through His Word.
God's sabbath, according to the bible, is Saturday, as observed in the Jewish faith.

So as far as Christians are concerned, Commandment 4 was abolished when they decided to use Sunday instead.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
God's sabbath, according to the bible, is Saturday, as observed in the Jewish faith.

So as far as Christians are concerned, Commandment 4 was abolished when they decided to use Sunday instead.
Yep Sunday worship as a replacement for Gods 4th commandment in honor of the resurrection of Jesus is a man-made teaching and tradition not supported by scripture. It has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
There is nothing wrong in anything I have said or posted here in this OP.
You have accomplished the art of an error-free mind? Your belief that you make no errors in reading the bible, I would say that is your first, and most fatal error of belief, and all the rest then flows downhill from there. You assume since you think it's true, it is true, and other's thinking has to therefore be wrong? You sincerely believe your interpretations of the Bible are error and judgment free?

There's a saying I like that says, 'the more we know the more we know we don't know.' The opposite is therefore also true. 'The less we know, the more we think we know'. With greater knowledge comes the wisdom of humility.

When the bible says that breaking Gods law is sin it means that if we break Gods law we commit sin. There is no other way that the bible can be interpreted because that is what the bible says.
But there is another way to understand what that means to be "breaking God's law". That is in fact the very mission of what Jesus was trying to teach to the legalistic Pharisees, who strained after gnats, yet swallowing camels. He had a different understanding of what breaking God's law meant than what they did. Can you deny this?

So it is not a "copout" to believe and obey what Gods Word says.
It is a cop out to claim "It's not my words, but God's". That is the context I said that, and it is what I mean here as well. It's evading responsibility for you reading your own biases and bents into scripture, and then trying to absolve yourself by saying, "It's not my words but God's".

It is your words, just as they are my words when I quote the exact same verses of scripture you do with a different understanding. The only difference between us is that I don't say to you, "These aren't my words, they're God's words" when I read the exact same verses back to you. I could, but I won't because that's not only untrue, it's dishonest.
Obeying Gods Word is the fruit of genuine faith according to James in James 2:13-26 and anything less is the dead faith of devils. This is why Jesus says by their fruits you shall know them, that is who is from God
Again, I fully agree with these verses, and I quote "By their fruits you shall know them," almost incessantly in pointing out the difference between religious zealots who justify themselves by keeping to every letter of the law, versus those who live by Grace. (I could say here, "These are God's words, not mine", but I'll resist. ;) )

If you are right in your thinking, that following the letter of the law to a T means you love God and are bearing spiritual fruits as a result of that, then why do you think Jesus spent so much time contrasting the Way that he taught about God's kingdom, with the way that the Pharisees taught? I would think if you are right, he would have praised them instead. But that's not the portrait we see in the gospels. Quite the opposite is true. "There is a way that seemeth right unto man..."

Legalism is trying to climb into the kingdom of God another way, through your own egoic efforts, not through surrender. The latter is far more difficult, far more the narrow way, then being a legalist. Legalism is human effort to win God's Love. Love through Grace, naturally fulfills the law without effort at all. This is the difference between the OT and the NT, the law as the schoolmaster, versus the Christ.

You quoting Romans 14 is a very good example of what I was posting above in the last section about those who try and read into the scriptures what is not in the scriptures in order to justify sin. Romans 14 is about eating and not eating on days that man esteem over other days and judging others in this regard. It is not talking about days that God esteems.
Multiple issues here. First, Romans 14 is not talking about eating foods on certain days. It is using Christians' different views on matters such eating certain types of food or not, or observing other days as holy or just another day of the week, as two separate examples of how Christians don't all belief the same ways about what it means to be serving God.

Other examples could also have been used, but Paul just used these two as examples of, which ironically fits exactly in with your challenge to other Christians that Saturday is all-important to God and you must observe it, versus those other Christians who do not understand God's will for them that same way. That entire chapter could be overlayed on top of this thread. In fact, I could see limiting our discussion to that chapter alone in order to resolve this issue in your mind about Christians who don't worship on Saturday as 'sinning'.

Secondly, it is not a day that "God esteems" as you put it. Jesus was quite clear about this when he said explicitly, "The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath". The way you treat the sabbath day is that man was made for the sabbath; that not keeping the sabbath is to sin against the very nature and being of God himself. Yet Jesus clearly taught the opposite. The sabbath was created for the benefit of man.

"The sabbath was made for man", to give him an opportunity to rest and connect with himself, with others, with the world around him, and with the Divine or God. It's not sinning against God's being to pick up sticks in your yard on Saturday (or go to Home Depot to buy a shovel to dig a fence post on your day off of work). Yet the legalist would make it so!

And the entire interaction you see of Jesus with the legalistically-minded Pharisees in the story is exactly about this difference right here in this thread. It is that context that he says the opposite of "God esteems the sabbath," or put another way,"Man was made for the sabbath", which is your position.

So back to Romans 14. Several key things stand out to me in the context of this discussion:

"One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind."

This is us here in this discussion. We are fully convinced in our minds it is not a sin to pick up sticks or mow the lawn on Saturday, or not go to church, or go to church on Sunday, or no day, or any day, or all days. Keep reading...

"Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God"

If someone between their own consciousness and God does not feel that the law to not pick up sticks on Saturday, or to use that day as the day of the week reserved for worship (instead of everyday of the week as others who find that 'rest' in God strive for), then they are not sinning. As Paul says at the end of the chapter...

"Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin."

It is not God that "esteems Saturday". It is you. And if you do, then that is how you choose to worship and honor God. That is your act of faith between you and God. But other Christians don't think the same in the hearts as you do. They are not sinning by thinking differently than you. They are convinced in their own conscious that all days are alike, that Christ is the rest. that the sabbath is fulfilled in Christ, as they rest in God (the scripture states exactly those words).

Therefore, it is something you esteem as important for you in your approach to God. Don't take your views and place yourself as the judge of others because they approach their relationship, or religious practices differently than you, in their own relationship with God.

I am with Paul on this where he uses the example of "nothing unclean" or eating of foods (which also applies to observing days of the week, as well as any other religious differences):

"I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean"

This is a challenging understanding for many younger Christians who feel they need to make an effort to earn God's love. They need to be told very black and white, cleanly divided right from wrong strictures, in order to feel secure in their faith. "If I don't do this, I'm okay. If I do this, I'll be safe".

With maturity comes a little less tightly strung and wound bindings upon faith. That is what this entire chapter is about, and that is what this entire discussion thread stands as an example of.
 
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2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
He had a different understanding of what breaking God's law meant than what they did. Can you deny this?
Yeshua's understanding was that you had to be more righteous than the Pharisees (Matthew 5:20). Whereas they understood that one must not commit adultery, Yeshua understood that sin begins in the heart and mind, and that one was guilty of adultery even if they looked at a woman with lust (Matthew 5:28). That anyone who called his brother a "fool" "shall be guilty enough to go into the hell of fire". (Matthew 5:22) A bit different than today's left leaning, Democratic Progressive who thinks it is alright to release felons with no bond onto innocent citizens. The types who think they are "saved" due to their own versions of truth and their knowing the difference between right and wrong. No, "His angels" are coming for those "who commit lawlessness" and is going to gather them and thrown them into the "furnace of fire" (Matthew 13:41-42).
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
God's sabbath, according to the bible, is Saturday, as observed in the Jewish faith.

So as far as Christians are concerned, Commandment 4 was abolished when they decided to use Sunday instead.
The "Christian" day of rest was determined by the Roman emperor Constantine in the year 321 A.D. in deference to his god, Sol Invictus, the sun god, and Sunday being the "day of the sun". As Constantine was the "beast with two horns like a lamb", well those with his "mark" are going to have to drink from the "cup of His anger" (Revelation 14:10). With Iran joining forces with Russia and China, and Russian nuclear armed submarines off the East and West coast of the U.S., with Russia in possession of large EMP nuclear weapons, and an EMP attack on the U.S. could kill over 90% of its citizens in 30 days, and the banking system is failing, and the U.S. no longer having a sizeable strategic oil reserve to fight a war, and many of its younger citizens not able to do a single pull up, I think the "great tribulation" is closer than most would admit.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Yeshua's understanding was that you had to be more righteous than the Pharisees (Matthew 5:20). Whereas they understood that one must not commit adultery, Yeshua understood that sin begins in the heart and mind, and that one was guilty of adultery even if they looked at a woman with lust (Matthew 5:28).
Yes! It doesn't mean become even more legalistic than them! It doesn't mean become a fundamentalists' fundamentalist. It is saying that you can't obey the law if you don't change your heart! That is what is meant by fulfilling the law through love. That is what is meant by the law being written on the tablets of the heart.

If you love, you fulfill the law, because you have gotten rid of the source of sin itself. If you love in your heart, you will not do harm to another, because the heart that loves cannot act against its own nature. This is what it means to make clean the inside of the cup first.

What he saying is not "scrub the outside of the cup even harder to get it even cleaner than the Pharisees". That's what I believe you think he is saying here about being more righteous than the Pharisees. Isn't that right? Do better at following the letter of the law? Be even more legalistic? That is upside down from what Jesus taught.

How do you think you make clean the inside of the cup first? How do you change the heart? Stab yourself with a fork when you have dirty thoughts? Gouge your eyes out when they wander lustfully? How do you see it possible to exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees in their perfected legalisms? What is the mechanism you use? Greater effort? I'd like to hear your ideas on this.
 
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2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Yes! It doesn't mean become even more legalistic than them! It doesn't mean become a fundamentalists' fundamentalist. It is saying that you can't obey the law if you don't change your heart! That is what is meant by fulfilling the law through love. That is what is meant by the law being written on the tablets of the heart.

If you love, you fulfill the law, because you have gotten rid of the source of sin itself. If you love in your heart, you will not do harm to another, because the heart that loves cannot act against its own nature. This is what it means to make clean the inside of the cup first.

What he saying is not "scrub the outside of the cup even harder to get it even cleaner than the Pharisees". That's what I believe you think he is saying here about being more righteous than the Pharisees. Isn't that right? Do better at following the letter of the law? Be even more legalistic? That is upside down from what Jesus taught.

How do you think you make clean the inside of the cup first? How do you change the heart? Stab yourself with a fork when you have dirty thoughts? Gouge your eyes out when they wander lustfully? How do you see it possible to exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees in their perfected legalisms? What is the mechanism you use? Greater effort? I'd like to hear your ideas on this.
The "scribes", the Pharisees, made the law into a lie (Jeremiah 8:8) by putting their laws, the laws taken from their twisted hearts and putting them ahead of God's laws, such as putting the tithing of their herbs ahead of honoring one's parents (Matthew 15:3-8). They have followed their twisted hearts and the "precepts/traditions of men" (Mt 15:9). In consequence, if they have no "good fruit", they will be cut down and thrown into the fire (Matthew 3). The love of the Progressives, the followers of their own hearts, determining good from evil, of the church of the "serpent", is manifested at letting felons out of jail, disfiguring gender dysphoric youths, and killing babies. Well, that kind of self-righteousness, the self-declared "woke" righteousness, apart from the Law of God, together with following false prophets, is leading them to "destruction" (Matthew 7:13-15) and if they cause the "children" to "stumble", it would have been better for them not to have been born. (Matthew 18:6). To be more righteous that the Pharisees, is to forget their man-made precepts and then keep God's the Law in one's heart and mind. Yelling that your "love" is above the love of God, established in his Commandments, is kind of disrespectful of the real love of God, which is objective in nature and not subjective according to one's own whims. The Law written in the hearts is with respect to the house of Judah and the house of Israel/Ephraim (Jeremiah 31:31-33) & (Ezekiel 36:26-27).
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The "scribes", the Pharisees, made the law into a lie (Jeremiah 8:8) by putting their laws, the laws taken from their twisted hearts and putting them ahead of God's laws, such as putting the tithing of their herbs ahead of honoring one's parents (Matthew 15:3-8). They have followed their twisted hearts and the "precepts/traditions of men" (Mt 15:9).
Yes, this is the problem of legalists and fundamentalists. They desire sacrifice over mercy. They, "have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." This is the problem with being fixating on worship being done on the "right day of the week", while tongue lashing others as "liberals" and progressives, and woke, and etc. You have omitted the weightier matters of the law, when you do this. You skirt around actually doing the will of God which is to "love others as yourself".

Legalism is, to use the technical term for it, a type of "spiritual bypassing"; avoiding working on the heart by being super-legalistic and religious. This is what Jesus taught needed to be corrected.

The love of the Progressives, the followers of their own hearts, determining good from evil, of the church of the "serpent", is manifested at letting felons out of jail, disfiguring gender dysphoric youths, and killing babies. Well, that kind of self-righteousness, the self-declared "woke" righteousness, apart from the Law of God, together with following false prophets, is leading them to "destruction" (Matthew 7:13-15) and if they cause the "children" to "stumble", it would have been better for them not to have been born. (Matthew 18:6). To be more righteous that the Pharisees, is to forget their man-made precepts and then keep God's the Law in one's heart and mind. Yelling that your "love" is above the love of God, established in his Commandments, is kind of disrespectful of the real love of God, which is objective in nature and not subjective according to one's own whims. The Law written in the hearts is with respect to the house of Judah and the house of Israel/Ephraim (Jeremiah 31:31-33) & (Ezekiel 36:26-27).
So you see yourself as more righteous that these tax collectors and Samaritans? So did the Pharisees. "Unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." Do not strain at the letter of the law, while "omitting the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith"

Peace
 
Hey Mark nice to meet you. Where does it say in the bible that Gods 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest? Did you notice not a single scripture you provided in your post agrees with your statement "Jesus death replaced Gods 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath of the 10 commandments? Did you know there was many kinds of sabbaths in the Old testament? James says in James 2:10-11 that if we break anyone of Gods 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of breaking all of them. While 1 John 3:4 and Romans 14:23 teach that the bibles definition of sin is the transgression of the law and not believing and obeying what Gods Word says, Hebrews 10:26-31 also teaches that when God gives us a knowledge of what sin is he expects us to believe and follow His Words or we will be in danger of the judgement to come and could lose our salvation if we choose to continue in known unrepentant sin. Happy to prove from the scriptures alone why the scripture you have provided in your post do not agree with your interpretation of them if your interested. Just let me know.

Sunday worship on the other hand as a replacement for Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandments in honor of the resurrection of Jesus, is a man-made teaching and tradition that is not supported in the scripture that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus given in Matthew 15:3-9. According to the scriptures Gods Israel in the new covenant are no longer those born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham but are now all those who through faith have been born of the Spirit into Gods new covenant promise to love (see Romans 9:6-8; Romans 2:28-29; Galatians 3:28-29). There is now no more Jews or gentile believers we are all now one in Christ according to the scriptures (see Ephesians 2:11-14; Colossians 3:11; Romans 10:11-13). If we are not a part of Gods Israel in the new covenant we have no part in Gods new covenant promise that was only ever given to Gods Israel (see Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27; Hebrews 8:10-12) which is only a name given by God to all those who believe and follow His Word. Gentile believers are now grafted in with Jewish believers (Romans 11:13-27) and we are all now one in Christ.

So why is all this important? Well very simply Gods Word is only ever given to Gods people Israel who believe and follow it to give to the world (Matthew 28:19-20). Gods Israel in the new covenant are now all those who have been born again into Gods new covenant promise through faith and as Jesus teaches in Matthew 4:4 Man does not life by bread alone but by every words that proceeds out of the mouth of God. All of Gods 10 commandments even Gods seventh day Sabbath proceeded directly out of the mouth of God (Exodus 20:1-19) and written by God alone on two tables of stone (Exodus 31:18) and is Gods law not the law of Moses given to His people. Its time to unlearn all the lies we have all been taught at Sunday school. God is calling us all out from following man-made teachings and traditions that have led many away from His Word to break the commandments of God, back to His Word to worship Him in Spirit and in truth (see John 10:16; John 4:23-24). This dear friend is the final test coming to everyone of us. Who do we choose to worship; God or man?

Take Care.
Re-read Collisions 2:13-16. Verse 16 makes mention of the Sabbath. Consider these other scriptures: Jeremiah 31:31, 32; Romans 7:6; 10:4; Hebrews 8:13; 9:15
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
I don't believe the Bible is the 4th person in the Trinity, but I do quote it quite often and agree with it. Are you saying because I don't read it the way do, I don't believe in God? Is that what you are trying to say here?
No. I would never say you or anyone else do not believe in God, simply on the basis that one does nor believe what the Bible says.
I asked, because of what you said.
I mean the scriptures directly says that God hates, and you say God does not hate.
So that is not giving evidence that you believe the Bible.

Here, though, you are saying you believe it as you want to, because. "I, Jehovah, love justice" is not a figure of speech. So to say, "I hate robbery and unrighteousness." is a figure of speech, seems to me, a way of saying, "I just believe it is as I say - the way I want to."

Proverbs 6:16-19 reads

  • 16 There are six things that Jehovah hates;
    Yes, seven things that he detests:
    17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
    18 A heart plotting wicked schemes, and feet that run quickly to evil,
    19 A false witness who lies with every breath,
    And anyone sowing contentions among brothers.
That's a figure of speech to you, also?
I think the reason most people, especially young people have stopped listening to so called experts on the Bible, is because the answers they get, are not consistent with what they read.

I think you understand God, only from your perspective of yourself. In other words, you assume that God must be like you. You believe that how you judge things is right, therefore God must judge things like you.
Am I incorrect?

This is clearly, a mistake that most people make.
I believe we should learn how God is, not from our own judgements, but from what we read in his word... and humbly submit to it.
True, there are some things persons may not fully understand, and they may find it hard to understand... for example, why God would kill "innocent" babies, but getting the full picture - that is using all the scriptures, and getting all the facts, we would realize that our thoughts are not as high as we think.

This would humble us, and help us to allow ourselves to me taught, by the one whose thoughts are higher than ours.
We would also be consistent.

Verse 7 is consistent with verse 5. would you not agree?
Psalms 11:5
Jehovah examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one; He* hates anyone who loves violence.
Verse 7 For Jehovah is righteous; he loves righteous acts.
Would you say verse 7 is also a figure of speech?
 
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3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Re-read Collisions 2:13-16. Verse 16 makes mention of the Sabbath. Consider these other scriptures: Jeremiah 31:31, 32; Romans 7:6; 10:4; Hebrews 8:13; 9:15
Studied it in a lot of detail Mark. Happy to share what I have learned with you. For example Colossians 2:16 Paul is quoting from the old testament scriptures on the ceremonial sabbaths in the annual feast days connected to the Sanctuary, Levitical Priesthood and the laws of atonement through animal sacrifice and sin offerings which were shadows to things to come pointing to Jesus as Gods sacrifice for the sins of the world once and for all and His ministration on our behalf in the heavenly Sanctuary of which the earthly was only a copy. People cherry pick Colossians 2:16 out of context to and surface read the scriptures and try to read into the scriptures what they do not say and do not teach. For example besides Gods 4th commandment there were many different annual ceremonial sabbaths (holy days resting from work - not Gods 4th commandment) that were any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle linked directly into the annual Feast days. Paul in Colossians 2:16 is actually quoting from old testament scriptures in regards to the sabbaths (plural; not singular and not the Sabbath; 4th commandment of the 10 commandments). The context is the the sabbaths (plural) and new moons and meat and drink offerings in the annual Feast days not Gods 4th commandment.

The within scripture and chapter context is where we then must determine the correct application and meaning of Colossians 2:16-17 which is in reference to the Old Testament scriptures.
  • COLOSSIANS 2:16 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLY DAY [FESTIVALS], or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS <plural>:
PAUL'S within scriptures CONTEXT and use of COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 is in reference to the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures.
  • EZEKIEL 45:17 [17] And it shall be the prince's part to give BURNT OFFERINGS, and MEAT OFFERINGS, and DRINK OFFERINGS, in the FEASTS, and in the NEW MOONS, and in the SABBATHS, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.
Note the same order of these scriptures and the wordings that Paul is quoting from in the old testament
  • NUMBERS 28:9-10 [9] And on the Sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a MEAT OFFERING, mingled with oil, and the DRINK OFFERING thereof: [10] This is the burnt offering of EVERY SABBATH, beside the continual BURN'T OFFERING, and his DRINK OFFERING.
Note it is the sabbaths in the assemblies (the annual Feast days) that are being discussed here
  • ISAIAH 1:10-14 [10] Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.[11] To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I AM FULL OF THE BURNT OFFERINGS of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.[12] When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?[13] BRING NO MORE VAIN OBLATIONS; incense is an abomination unto me; THE NEW MOONS AND SABBATHS, THE CALLING OF ASSEMBLIES, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.[14] Your NEW MOONS and your APPOINTED FEASTS my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
The annual feast days had days of holy convocation and days of rest where no work was allowed (ceremonial sabbaths)
  • LEVITICUS 23:4 [4] These are THE FEASTS OF THE LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. [5] In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is THE LORD'S PASSOVER. [6] And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the Lord: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread…… [13] And the MEAT OFFERING thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the Lord for a sweet savor: and the DRINK OFFERING thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin.
The annual feasts, new moons and ceremonial sabbaths linked to old covenant atonement (earthly Sanctuary, Levitical Priesthood and sin offerings)
  • HOSEA 2:11 [11], I will also cause all her mirth to CEASE, HER [ISRAEL'S] FEAST DAYS, her NEW MOONS, and HER SABBATHS, and all HER [ISRAELS] SOLEMN FEASTS.
wait for it back to the NEW...
  • HEBREWS 9:1-12 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.... [9] WHICH WAS A FIGURE FOR THE TIME THEN PRESENT, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
The new testament scriptures continue this same theme in Hebrews...
  • HEBREWS 10:1-9 [1], FOR THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW OF GOOD THINGS TO COME, AND NOT THE VERY IMAGE OF THE THINGS, CAN NEVER WITH THOSE SACRIFICES which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. [2], For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshipers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. [3], But in those SACRIFICES there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. [4], For it is not possible that THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND GOATS should take away sins.[5], Why when he comes into the world, he said, SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS YOU WOULD NOT BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME: [6], IN BURNT OFFERINGS AND SACRIFICES FOR SIN YOU HAVE HAD NO PLEASURE. [7], Then said I, See, I come in the VOLUME OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME, to do your will, O God. [8], Above when he said, SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS AND BURNT OFFERINGS AND OFFERINGS FOR SIN YOU WOULD NOT, neither had pleasure therein; WHICH ARE OFFERED BY THE LAW; [9], Then said he, See, I come to do your will, O God. He takes away the first, that he may establish the second.

NOTE; the LAW in reference here is NOT God's 10 Commandments but the law of sin offerings from the SHADOW laws of the MOSAIC BOOK of the LAW *DEUTERONOMY 31:24-26 from the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 (Please look at the attached scriptures). In Colossians 2:16, Paul is quoting the old testament scriptures which are in regards to the sacrificial sin offerings and JEWISH annual festivals that where shadow laws from the Mosaic book of the Old Covenant *EXODUS 24:7 that pointed to Jesus and God's plan of salvation in the New covenant *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Happy to discuss this is further detail of you are interested but lets not be like those who cherry pick scriptures out of their context to seek to justify their sins. There is not a single scripture in all the bible that teaches we are now free to break Gods commandments, just we there is not a single scripture in all of the bible that teaches Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandments is now abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. It's time to unlearn the lies as have all been taught from Sunday school and return to God and His Word.

Take Care.
 
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3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
You have accomplished the art of an error-free mind? Your belief that you make no errors in reading the bible, I would say that is your first, and most fatal error of belief, and all the rest then flows downhill from there. You assume since you think it's true, it is true, and other's thinking has to therefore be wrong? You sincerely believe your interpretations of the Bible are error and judgment free?

There's a saying I like that says, 'the more we know the more we know we don't know.' The opposite is therefore also true. 'The less we know, the more we think we know'. With greater knowledge comes the wisdom of humility.


But there is another way to understand what that means to be "breaking God's law". That is in fact the very mission of what Jesus was trying to teach to the legalistic Pharisees, who strained after gnats, yet swallowing camels. He had a different understanding of what breaking God's law meant than what they did. Can you deny this?


It is a cop out to claim "It's not my words, but God's". That is the context I said that, and it is what I mean here as well. It's evading responsibility for you reading your own biases and bents into scripture, and then trying to absolve yourself by saying, "It's not my words but God's".

It is your words, just as they are my words when I quote the exact same verses of scripture you do with a different understanding. The only difference between us is that I don't say to you, "These aren't my words, they're God's words" when I read the exact same verses back to you. I could, but I won't because that's not only untrue, it's dishonest.

Again, I fully agree with these verses, and I quote "By their fruits you shall know them," almost incessantly in pointing out the difference between religious zealots who justify themselves by keeping to every letter of the law, versus those who live by Grace. (I could say here, "These are God's words, not mine", but I'll resist. ;) )

If you are right in your thinking, that following the letter of the law to a T means you love God and are bearing spiritual fruits as a result of that, then why do you think Jesus spent so much time contrasting the Way that he taught about God's kingdom, with the way that the Pharisees taught? I would think if you are right, he would have praised them instead. But that's not the portrait we see in the gospels. Quite the opposite is true. "There is a way that seemeth right unto man..."

Legalism is trying to climb into the kingdom of God another way, through your own egoic efforts, not through surrender. The latter is far more difficult, far more the narrow way, then being a legalist. Legalism is human effort to win God's Love. Love through Grace, naturally fulfills the law without effort at all. This is the difference between the OT and the NT, the law as the schoolmaster, versus the Christ.


Multiple issues here. First, Romans 14 is not talking about eating foods on certain days. It is using Christians' different views on matters such eating certain types of food or not, or observing other days as holy or just another day of the week, as two separate examples of how Christians don't all belief the same ways about what it means to be serving God.

Other examples could also have been used, but Paul just used these two as examples of, which ironically fits exactly in with your challenge to other Christians that Saturday is all-important to God and you must observe it, versus those other Christians who do not understand God's will for them that same way. That entire chapter could be overlayed on top of this thread. In fact, I could see limiting our discussion to that chapter alone in order to resolve this issue in your mind about Christians who don't worship on Saturday as 'sinning'.

Secondly, it is not a day that "God esteems" as you put it. Jesus was quite clear about this when he said explicitly, "The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath". The way you treat the sabbath day is that man was made for the sabbath; that not keeping the sabbath is to sin against the very nature and being of God himself. Yet Jesus clearly taught the opposite. The sabbath was created for the benefit of man.

"The sabbath was made for man", to give him an opportunity to rest and connect with himself, with others, with the world around him, and with the Divine or God. It's not sinning against God's being to pick up sticks in your yard on Saturday (or go to Home Depot to buy a shovel to dig a fence post on your day off of work). Yet the legalist would make it so!

And the entire interaction you see of Jesus with the legalistically-minded Pharisees in the story is exactly about this difference right here in this thread. It is that context that he says the opposite of "God esteems the sabbath," or put another way,"Man was made for the sabbath", which is your position.

So back to Romans 14. Several key things stand out to me in the context of this discussion:



This is us here in this discussion. We are fully convinced in our minds it is not a sin to pick up sticks or mow the lawn on Saturday, or not go to church, or go to church on Sunday, or no day, or any day, or all days. Keep reading...



If someone between their own consciousness and God does not feel that the law to not pick up sticks on Saturday, or to use that day as the day of the week reserved for worship (instead of everyday of the week as others who find that 'rest' in God strive for), then they are not sinning. As Paul says at the end of the chapter...



It is not God that "esteems Saturday". It is you. And if you do, then that is how you choose to worship and honor God. That is your act of faith between you and God. But other Christians don't think the same in the hearts as you do. They are not sinning by thinking differently than you. They are convinced in their own conscious that all days are alike, that Christ is the rest. that the sabbath is fulfilled in Christ, as they rest in God (the scripture states exactly those words).

Therefore, it is something you esteem as important for you in your approach to God. Don't take your views and place yourself as the judge of others because they approach their relationship, or religious practices differently than you, in their own relationship with God.

I am with Paul on this where he uses the example of "nothing unclean" or eating of foods (which also applies to observing days of the week, as well as any other religious differences):



This is a challenging understanding for many younger Christians who feel they need to make an effort to earn God's love. They need to be told very black and white, cleanly divided right from wrong strictures, in order to feel secure in their faith. "If I don't do this, I'm okay. If I do this, I'll be safe".

With maturity comes a little less tightly strung and wound bindings upon faith. That is what this entire chapter is about, and that is what this entire discussion thread stands as an example of.
Nothing personal dear friend. I only see your words here that do not address any of the content and the scriptures in the post you are micro-quoting from that are in disagreement with you (see post # 484 linked). Lets talk more when you have something to contribute to the discussion. For me only Gods Word is true and we should believe and follow them (see Romans 3:4 compare Acts 5:29; 32). All you have provided in your post here is to avoid addressing the scripture content in the post you are quoting from that is in disagreement with you, while making arguments here that no one believes. We should not be afraid of testing what we believe through the scriptures. Its a blessing from God to know the truth of His Word. Better to find out now rather than latter only to learn that our sins caused us to lose our salvation. Let me ask you again dear friend; Where is the scripture that says Gods 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus? There is none is there?
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Yes, this is the problem of legalists and fundamentalists. They desire sacrifice over mercy. They, "have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." This is the problem with being fixating on worship being done on the "right day of the week", while tongue lashing others as "liberals" and progressives, and woke, and etc. You have omitted the weightier matters of the law, when you do this. You skirt around actually doing the will of God which is to "love others as yourself".

Legalism is, to use the technical term for it, a type of "spiritual bypassing"; avoiding working on the heart by being super-legalistic and religious. This is what Jesus taught needed to be corrected.

Yeshua taught that those "who commit lawlessness" will be "gathered" and thrown into the "furnace of fire" (Matthew 13:41-42). The "kingdom" is built on the "stone" of righteousness, the process of doing what is right as determined by God's Word, and "justice" as determined by God's Word and not man. Man has made "lies" his refuge, and in the end, man's "covenant with death", the false gospel of grace, "shall be cancelled".

Isaiah 28:15-18 15For you said, “We have made a covenant with death; we have fashioned an agreement with Sheol. When the overwhelming scourge passes through it will not touch us, because we have made lies our refuge and falsehood our hiding place.” 16So this is what the Lord GOD says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation; the one who believes will never be shaken. 17 I will make justice the measuring line and righteousness the level. Hail will sweep away your refuge of lies, and water will flood your hiding place.…
 
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