The problem is that you "believe" in the false prophet Paul, who says "we shall not all sleep/die", which is antithetical to the "Word of God" via Jeremiah 31:30, which states that "everyone will die for their own iniquity", which is to say everyone will die, and Paul is a false prophet for saying otherwise. One either chooses righteousness and lives or chooses wickedness (lawlessness) and dies. To enter into life, one must keep the Commandments (Matthew 19:17) You are aligning yourself with the "false prophet" who will wish to die when thrown into the "lake of fire" (Revelation 20:10).
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WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT IS ABOLISHED?
- Thread starter 3rdAngel
- Start date
The problem is that you "believe" in the false prophet Paul, who says "we shall not all sleep/die", which is antithetical to the "Word of God" via Jeremiah 31:30, which states that "everyone will die for their own iniquity", which is to say everyone will die, and Paul is a false prophet for saying otherwise. One either chooses righteousness and lives or chooses wickedness (lawlessness) and dies. To enter into life, one must keep the Commandments (Matthew 19:17) You are aligning yourself with the "false prophet" who will wish to die when thrown into the "lake of fire" (Revelation 20:10).
Him refers to the "Word of God" (Revelation 19:13), which you endeavor to make "obsolete". It is the Lord God who washes away "all your filthiness" with "clean water". (Ezekiel 36:25). The "blood" of the lamb of Passover was placed on the door frame to turn away the angels of death which are on their way back (Matthew 13:30). The "blood" of the last supper represents the Spirit of God which dwells in the blood/wine, and the Spirit of God is the Spirit of Revelation/prophecy, which is the "testimony of Yeshua" (Revelation 19:10). You have mixed in the leaven of the Pharisees, hypocrisy, within the bread of life, and have ruined the whole loaf. One is supposed to eat the bread without leaven.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Sadly that claim has no truth in it at all and is bearing false witness. You have been provided scripture which is Gods Words not my words that you choose to ignore with your words that are not Gods Word to justify sin and a teaching of lawlessness (without law) that is not supported in the scriptures. Yet you close your eyes and ears to seeing and believing Gods Words, like many did in the days of Jesus in fulfillment of Isaiah 6:9-10. According to the scriptures we are deceiving ourselves if we believe we can continue in known unrepentant sin after God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word and we choose not to believe and follow it thinking we have Gods salvation (see Matthew 7:21-23; Hebrews 10:26-31; 1 John 2:3-4; John 3:36; 1 John 3:4-10; Revelation 14:12). Only Gods Word is the standard of what is true and what is not true and we should believe and follow it (Romans 3:4; John 17:17) over the teachings and traditions of men that lead us away from God and His Words to break the commandments of God (Matthew:15-3-9). Sadly though many will be called but only the few will be Gods chosen *Matthew 7:13-14; Matthew 7:21-23; Matthew 22:14; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12. Examine yourself therefore to see if you are in the faith or not *1 John 2:3-4 before the thief breaks in, to steal all that you have.
Take Care.
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You didn't answer my questions. In order to proceed further, you need to answer these. These will be my only responses until you do.
Question 1: Is God's love conditional upon your obeying the law?
Question 2: Do you only love your children if they do what you say? Or, if you don't have children, did your own parents only love you when you were good and did what they say? Did you need to earn their love from them towards you? Be honest.
Question 3: Do you believe God will send you to hell if you go to church on Sunday, instead of Saturday?
Adding Question 4: Do you believe only those who believe like you do and practice religion the way you do will be accepted by God?
Please answers these questions directly.
nPeace
Veteran Member
Thanks for your answer, but none of those scriptures answered the question.
The question was Why did God command the Sabbath day be kept, 3rdAngel, and why do you keep it, and believe Christians should do the same?
Isn't this the answer to the first part of the question.
Deuteronomy 5:15
Literal Standard Version
And you have remembered that you have been a servant in the land of Egypt, and your God YHWH brings you out from there by a strong hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore your God YHWH has commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.
Would you agree the reason is given there?
So, with that in mind, why do you keep that command, and believe Christians should do the same?
The Lord's Day. The Jewish Christians at first continued to observe the Sabbath with its law of rest and its meetings in the synagogue for Bible reading and prayer. More important for them was the new commemorative day, the Sunday. This was not simply the weekly holiday postponed for one day; the Sunday was something quite distinctive, with an entirely new meaning and an entirely new character, and soon received a new name.
The weekdays continued to be simply enumerated, one after the other
(second, third day of the week), the new commemorative day received its own particular name, as early as the close of the first century, called the 'Lord's Day. "Peter's sermon on Pentecost, (Acts 2:36), he announced Christ's resurrection from the dead and that "He has claimed from his Father His promise to bestow the Holy Spirit" upon His disciples, from this, then, let it be known to all Israel that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified."
With respect to the Passover meal it is only celebrated once a year, so Pual would have been referring to a 'sabbath' meal, occurring once a week.
nPeace
Veteran Member
Sorry. I like your questions, so I hope you don't mind... 
Looks that way, based on those scriptures. Not the Mosaic Law, but God's laws + the law of Christ.
The difference with us and God though, is God is holy. God is love.
Therefore, our love is not God's, nor our holiness. hence we need to understand what love is.
Love is not sentimentality.
So, while humans are driven mostly by sentiment, God is not.
There is no harmony between light and darkness - holiness and ungodliness.
To illustrate, some parents will refuse to discipline a child, because... "Oh. He's Sooooooo Cute." When the child becomes a "monster", because they were spoiled, then the parent wants to know.... "Did I give birth to you?"
They think that's love.
The Bible says of God... for those whom Jehovah loves he disciplines, in fact, he scourges everyone whom he receives as a son.” Hebrews 12:6
God's love is not sentimentality. We sometimes don't know the difference.
It was as Paul said, a teacher, reminding them of what was important, so as to not lose out.
As was pointed out already... I saw @Kenny quote the scripture... the day is not the important thing. Neither eating and drinking.
Also, while the Bible says that God drowned a world of people, Pharaoh's army, and opened the earth and swallowed down people, these people simply went to their graves - not a fiery pit, as some religions teach,
So, I do not believe in the idea that God send people to a fiery hell.
The Bible says people will come out of the graves - hell, according to some translations. Revelation 20:13 So that would mean God takes people out of "hell".
He destroys people forever, as symbolized by the lake of fire, if they do not obey the good news of our lord Jesus Christ.
I just wanted to address those questions using scripture.
Thanks for the direct questions.
Jude 1:21; John 15:10; Psalms 11:5
Looks that way, based on those scriptures. Not the Mosaic Law, but God's laws + the law of Christ.
Honestly, no.
The difference with us and God though, is God is holy. God is love.
Therefore, our love is not God's, nor our holiness. hence we need to understand what love is.
Love is not sentimentality.
So, while humans are driven mostly by sentiment, God is not.
There is no harmony between light and darkness - holiness and ungodliness.
To illustrate, some parents will refuse to discipline a child, because... "Oh. He's Sooooooo Cute." When the child becomes a "monster", because they were spoiled, then the parent wants to know.... "Did I give birth to you?"
They think that's love.
The Bible says of God... for those whom Jehovah loves he disciplines, in fact, he scourges everyone whom he receives as a son.” Hebrews 12:6
God's love is not sentimentality. We sometimes don't know the difference.
Well, I'll leave that to @2ndpillar since I know the Sabbath was given to the nation of Israel as a command to remember to keep a designated day holy, as a reminder not to forget the God that brought them out of Egypt, and cared for them.
It was as Paul said, a teacher, reminding them of what was important, so as to not lose out.
As was pointed out already... I saw @Kenny quote the scripture... the day is not the important thing. Neither eating and drinking.
Also, while the Bible says that God drowned a world of people, Pharaoh's army, and opened the earth and swallowed down people, these people simply went to their graves - not a fiery pit, as some religions teach,
So, I do not believe in the idea that God send people to a fiery hell.
The Bible says people will come out of the graves - hell, according to some translations. Revelation 20:13 So that would mean God takes people out of "hell".
He destroys people forever, as symbolized by the lake of fire, if they do not obey the good news of our lord Jesus Christ.
God accepts those who submit to his requirements for pure worship, so in that case, only those practicing the religion God approves, is acceptable to him, according to scripture. John 4:23-23; James 1:27
Hope @2ndpillar answers. Sorry if I interrupted anything.
I just wanted to address those questions using scripture.
Thanks for the direct questions.
I quoted many passages which referred to Christian worship, observing the Eucharist on the first day of the week, the Lord's day. If you are looking for precise language you're not going to find it, 'know more on the 7th day you're not going to find it. That's the problem with holding to a literalist, fundamentalist mindset, you miss the whole.
Law is not given to the gentiles in the first place.
The big picture is, Law (Mosaic) is a set of Jewish laws through which God demonstrates how strict His Law is, for the purpose of letting humans understand how graciful His New Covenant is. To the pride Jews, Law is never given to the gentiles, it's a privildge of the Jews. Gentiles are referred to as those with "No Law". The scope of coverage of Mosaic Law is the Jews and Jews only (with limited converts). However, some of them are transitioned to the New Covenant, basically whichever Jesus included in His teaching, are the commandments transitioned from OT to be included in the NT. The difference is, in OT commandments are enforced as Law while in NT they are Christ's teaching.
Matthew 19:18-19 (NIV):
“Which ones?” he inquired. Jesus replied, “ ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony,
honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”
Somehow, Sabbath is not included in this transition. There's a reason behind that. Just as Jesus often demonstrates, saving people is more important than doing nothing on a Sabbath day. In NT, Christians are encouraged to attend Sunday gathering which is referred to as the Lord's Day. Moreover, Jewish Christians still want to observe the Sabbath. That's why the arrangement in early churches, which is a combination of both Jews and gentiles, have a gathering on Sunday while Saturday is reserved for the Jewish Christinans to observe their Sabbath Day. Instead of the one day rest, Christians can choose to observe the one day rest in Sunday gathering which they also have the option of preaching the gosple instead of staying home doing nothing. Preaching the gospel is with a higher priority for human salvation. It is a top priority for Christians since day one of Christianity.
Apparently, on the first day of the week, the followers of Paul were allowed to "break bread", and therefore the Gentile church declares it the "day of the Lord". Personally, I generally "break bread" 7 days a week. As for the Gentile church, the church of the "worthless shepherd" (Zechariah 11:17), Peter, and the false prophet Paul, they follow the law set down in 321 A.D. by the 7th head of the beast of Revelation 17:9-10, which is to keep the "day of the sun", as the day of rest, with respect to Constantine's god, Sol Invictus, the sun god. As the Roman emperor Constantine is the "beast with two horns like a lamb" (Revelation 13), whose is to "deceive those who dwell on the earth" (Revelation 13), those who bear his mark will have to drink from the "cup of God's anger" (Revelation 14:10). When the actual "day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32) comes, then the nations/Gentiles who survive will confess the error of their ways (Jeremiah 16:19). Keep in mind that the "day of the LORD" comes previously to the 7th millennium, the 7th day, representing the Sabbath, the "day of the Lord", when the "king", "the Lord of hosts", will rule from Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:16-17) on the high holy Sabbath, known as the "feast of Booths", or suffer no rain. "Human salvation", is a term of the Gentile church. The salvation of Joel 2:31-32 is directed at those on "Mount Zion" and in "Jerusalem. The "kingdom of heaven" as defined by Yeshua in Matthew 13:30, is with respect to the angels of God "first" "gathering" the "tares" and then tossing them into the "furnace of fire", which is the "great tribulation", such as Har-Magedon, or the judgment of God.
Your apparent "salvation" and understanding seems to be built upon some unknown author, who seems to be an associate of the false prophet Paul, who is generally assumed to be Luke, who in Luke 1:1-3, says he witness nothing. You also seem to build on what supposedly was said by the "worthless shepherd" (Zechariah 11;16-17), Peter, who would not feed, care, or tend the sheep, and therefore his heir, the holder of the keys of David, the pope, will "fall", and all hanging onto him would be "cut off" (Isaiah 22:15-25), which is to say the Gentile church ("house") will "fall" when the wind, rain and floods come (Matthew 7:27).
Apparently, Paul was referring to breaking of bread on the 1st day of the week, which he probably did 7 days a week. Passover, and therefore 3 days and 3 nights later, would be with respect to the 14th of Nissan, which happens on any day of the week. Sunday, the day of the sun, was set up as the day of rest by the Roman emperor Constantine, in 321 A.D. Easter, the pagan feast of Astarte, the supposed day of resurrection was set up at Constantine's Council of Nicene in 325 A.D., and had nothing to do with Passover, or the feast of unleavened Bread, the eating of bread without the leaven of the Pharisees, such as the Pharisee Paul. Keep in mind that Constantine was the 7th head of the beast, the "beast with two horns like a lamb", and anyone found with his mark on their hand will have to drink from the "cup of God's anger" (Revelation 14:10).
Maybe you posted this before I answered your questions except for question 2. As for children, all you can do is hope and pray, and give them a good example. Other than that, they can stray down a dark path to destruction. They can choose to abide the law, and be a good citizen, or they can choose to "commit lawlessness" and wind up being thrown into the "furnace of fire", which is the judgment for their actions (Matthew 13:39-42). One does their children no favor when sparing the rod. The child will probably love you if you give them candy and soda, and letting them do what they will, killing them in the process.
Actually, that is not correct. If one is born of God, then they experience the love of God (1 John 3:9-11), for they have been anointed in the Spirit of God, and do not need any one to teach them (1 John 2:27), for you "abide in Him". On the other hand, the "tax collector" will love his friends in the ways of men, and will hate his enemies, in the way of men. (Matthew 5:46), whereas their "love" is the love of men. One is one with God ("abide in Him"), and feel the love of God for God's children, or then one is into the experience of men with their twisted hearts and minds, who can justify anything with a properly orientated double mindedness based on the traditions of men.
nPeace
Veteran Member
What... You love your children only when they obey you?
One experiences the love of God, before they are born of God. Romans 5:8. No?
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Your question was posted here...
Your question was indeed answered in post # 338 linked in the very scripture that is Gods 4th commandment. You just did not like the answer because you are seeking to justify your sin in breaking Gods 4th commandment. The problem with your interpretation of the scriptures above is that your argument against the Sabbath applies not only to Gods 4th commandment but to every one of Gods 10 commandments. You do not believe that all of Gods 10 commandments are now abolished do you @nPeace? Think your argument through. In your quest for trying to justify your sins of breaking Gods 4th commandment your interpretation of the scriptures is leading you to disregard all of Gods 10 commandment of which Gods 4th commandment is only one of ten. This again is a teaching of lawlessness that is not supported by the scriptures and a doctrine of the devil who teaches lawlessness.
Lets look at the question again and let Gods Word answer it...
- Q. Why did God command the Sabbath day be kept, 3rdAngel, and why do you keep it, and believe Christians should do the same?
- A. Exodus 20 8, REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day) 9, Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:10, But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY> 11, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and MADE IT HOLY
- Genesis 2:1-3 1], Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. [2], And ON THE SEVENTH DAY God ended his work which he had made; and he RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made. [3], And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY, and made it HOLY <the 7th day>: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
- Mark 2:27. THE SABBATH WAS MADE FOR MAN AND NOT MAN FOR THE SABBATH
Take Care.
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3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Sadly you are not telling the truth again. You did not post a single scripture that says Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day". I posted the full conversation below so everyone can see it.
Your response...
Your full post # 245 here...
I responded with...
You micro quoting me does not really help you here. As posted earlier you did not post a single scripture that says Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day" of Revelation 1:10 because there is no scripture to support that view. It is a man-made teaching and tradition that can only be found outside of the scriptures that is not supported anywhere in the scriptures, that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus given in Matthew 15:3-9.
Take Care.
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3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
According to the scriptures, God never made a covenant with Gentiles (see Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Hebrews 8:10-12). God only ever made His covenants with Israel which is just a name given by God outside of the Mosaic and new covenants (Genesis 32:28) given to Jacob and His seed as he wrestled with God in prayer as a fulfillment of Gods promise to Abraham (Genesis 22:15-17) that we have today given by God to all those who choose to believe and follow Gods Word by faith. According to the scriptures in the new covenant Gods Israel is no longer those born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham but are now all those who through faith have been born again in the Spirit to believe and follow what Gods Word says (see Romans 9:6-8; Romans 2:28-29; Galatians 3:28-29). In the new covenant, Gentile believers are now grafted in with Jewish believers and we are all now one in Christ (see Romans 11:13-27; Colossians 3:11; Romans 10:11-13). If we are not a part of Gods Israel in the new covenant we have no part in Gods new covenant promise which was only ever made with Israel (Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27) who are defined in the scriptures as all those who have been born again in the Spirit to believe and follow what Gods Word says (John 3:3-7; compare 1 John 3:4-10; 1 John 2:3-4; John 3:36; Galatians 5:16).
According to the new covenant scriptures, Gods 10 commandments have the same purpose they always had and that is to give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing when obeyed) and evil (moral wrong doing when disobeyed); sin (moral wrong doing when disobeyed) and righteousness (moral right doing when obeyed) *see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172 and according to James if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin in James 2:10-11. This of course includes Gods 4th commandment which is one of Gods 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken.
The commandments sited by Jesus in Matthew 19:18-19 are those commandments to do with out duty of love to our fellow man. They do not include the first four commandments that are our duty of love to God. Why? Jesus is not saying that we can now have other Gods, make idols and worship them, use Gods name in vain and break the Sabbath. The Jews were already keeping these commandments. It was the second six commandments of their duty of love to their neighbor that they were disregarding. This is also demonstrated by Jesus in the parable of the good Samaritan (Luke 10:35-27). When Jesus was asked which is the greatest commandment he said that love to God and and love to our fellow man are the two greatest commandments and on these two great commandments of love hang all the law and the prophets in Matthew 22:36-40. Jesus here was quoting from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18. Love to God and man is simply summarizing those commandments that teach us how to love God and our fellow man. This is what Paul is saying in Romans 13:8-10 and something well known to Jews. So Matthew 19:18-19 is not saying we can now have other Gods, make idols and worship them, use Gods name in vain and break the Sabbath. Gods people already knew Gods 10 commandments when Jesus was speaking to them as they where given by God in Exodus 20:3-17.
According to the scriptures, and the new covenant Jesus came to magnify the law from the INSIDE OUT quoting Matthew 5:17-32 (thoughts and feelings) in fulfillment of *Isaiah 42:21. This is to show that unless our righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees we can in no way enter into the kingdom of heaven. Jesus is saying the problem runs deeper then outward observance to the 10 Commandments. evil begins in the heart. Breaking God's 10 Commandments from the heart is what defiles a man *Matthew 15:18-19. Jesus is saying we can be outwardly perfect and blameless like the Scribes and Pharisee but inwardly like dead mans bones * Matthew 23:27-28. Jesus magnified the law from the inside out to show us that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour and that sin originates in the heart (thoughts and feelings). That is why we need to be born again from the inside out (John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:4-10) to walk in God’s Spirit to love (Galatians 5:16). If we are not born again into the New Covenant promise and continue in it we will not enter the kingdom of Heaven *Matthew 7:21-23. All those who knowingly break any one of God's 10 commandments stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11. All those who knowingly continue in unrepentant sin will not enter into God's kingdom *Hebrews 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *Romans 6:23. God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 Commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is. Also you might want to consider that there is no scripture in the entire bible that says Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day". This is a man-made teaching and tradition that is not supported in the scriptures. It is the same as there is no scripture that says that Gods 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. This as well is a man-made teaching and tradition that is not supported by the scriptures that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings given by Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9. Its time to unlearn the lies we have all been taught at Sunday school dear friend. God is calling us out from the fallen Church's that have forsaken His Word. Jesus is calling us all back to His Word to worship Him in Spirit and in truth (see John 4:23-24).
According to the scriptures Gods people after the death and resurrection of Jesus worshiped God every day of the week but still continued to keep the Sabbath commandment as a holy day of rest (see Acts of the Apostles 2:46-47; Acts of the Apostles 17:2). As posted earlier and in this OP, there is not a single scripture in all the bible that says Gods 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to now keep Sunday as a holy day in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus given in Matthew 15:3-9. Jesus taught us to do good on the Sabbath (Matthew 12:1-12) and it was His custom to go to Church on the Sabbath (Luke 4:16) and we should follow him. According to John 10:26-27 Gods sheep hear His voice (the Word) and follow him.
Take Care.
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That is not what your false prophet wrote in Romans 5:8. I mean, with a little rewriting, you can justify any point of view. You experience God by feeling His love for his children. Not because someone told you his son died for sinners. And your "grace" is not going to save you from the "wrath" to come (Romans 5:9-15). There is no "rapture" of the "wheat" before the judgment on the tares (Matthew 13:30) . The "gathering" of the "wheat" comes after the "tares" are thrown into "furnace of fire" (tribulation). Even the "elect" will barely make it through the "great tribulation" (Matthew 24:21-22) As for Romans 5:21, sin reigned in Paul's flesh during is walk on the earth per Romans 7:25. Satan's presence in Paul was emphasized by the pain in Paul's side.