WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT IS ABOLISHED?

[Windwalker]

You kind of quote Matthew 9:13 out of context and use your chosen translation which does not reflect the context. Yeshua's response was that he came to offer the "kingdom" to the tax gatherers and the sinners, as they need to confess their sins, and repent, and then produce fruit in line with their repentance, or else be "gathered" and "cut down" and thrown into the fire (Matthew 3:10). His message was to the "sick", that they might change their ways, or be tossed in the "fire". Those who support the Progressives, liars, thieves and murderers, the "sick" in their agendas, share responsibility for their actions. The judgment for the tares (weeds which look like wheat), can look forward to being thrown into the "furnace of fire" (Matthew 13:30), and looking at the news, looking at the "fig tree" (Matthew 24:32), sooner rather than later.

Matthew 9:12 But when Jesus heard this, He said, “It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick. 13“But go and learn what this means: ‘I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT SACRIFICE,’ for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.

Having ears to hear, you are unable to hear. Your hatred of others has blinded you.

 

[3rdAngel]

I quoted your words. That's not pretending. You have on multiple occasions claimed essentially that your words are God's words, by denying that your are interpreting the Bible. You've said it multiple times, and I've provided the quotes from your posts.

Do you wish to clarify here at this point that you interpret scripture the same as the rest of us, and even though you are quoting the Bible, it's your understanding you are sharing, just like it's my understanding I am sharing quoting the same verses? Can you admit that to me so we can move forward?

I am more than willing to discuss this with you. But to keep things simple and get this promised discussion on track, I just posted a new post right before this one to another poster this morning. Post #515. Let's start there, since it directly calls into question your entire premise of the importance of the 4th commandment. Okay?

No you micro-quoted my posts to put your spin on what I was not saying and ignoring all the post content and scriptures that were in direct disagreement with you is simply avoiding and not answering what was posted to you. The discussion in this OP I believe is already on track. To me it seems that you are clearly not here for a discussion on what the bible says or you would be addressing my post content and the scriptures provided in them that are in direct disagreement with you. Why do you want me to now jump to another post that you posted to someone else when you are unwilling to address anything in the posts and scriptures I have already spent time sharing with you that you are unwilling to discuss with me?

Take Care.

 

[2ndpillar]

Having ears to hear, you are unable to hear. Your hatred of others has blinded you.

According to Daniel, it is the "wicked", the lawless, that have no "understanding". Yeshua's referral to those without ears to hear (Isaiah 6:9), referred to in Matthew 13:11-14, is with respect to understanding the "kingdom of heaven", not some hypocritical leaven of the Pharisees, as with the false gospel of grace/cross. Are you going to call the angels coming to gather those "who commit lawlessness" (Matthew 13:41-42), as "haters"? You can call them what you want, but it won't change their intent and results.

 

[Windwalker]

Are you going to call the angels coming to gather those "who commit lawlessness" (Matthew 13:41-42), as "haters"? You can call them what you want, but it won't change their intent and results.

I am simply saying you do not speak with love. You curse and condemn with your lips. The fruit you bear is not the fruits of the spirit, but the fruits of anger and rage and hatred of your neighbors. Judge for yourself what that means.

 

[Windwalker]

No you micro-quoted my words put your spin on what I was not saying and ignored all the post content and scriptures that were in direct disagreement with you.

I am not micro-quoting anything. I don't have the energy to dissect 30 different verses that you are using to all justify the same thing. So I chose one or two, and focus there. I believe you don't want a challenge to anything, so you barrage people with a million quotes, and then falsely accuse them of not addressing your argument. I have addressed it. Yet you refuse to reply, and try to shift the blame to me. Not going to work. The truth here is obvious.

Why do you want me to now jump to another post that you posted to someone else when you are unwilling to address anything in the posts and scriptures I have already spent time sharing with you that you are unwilling to discuss with me?

What I post is in direct response to everything you are saying. Why are you avoiding answering? I believe I know why. If you don't believe me, then post any one thing you wish me to address, and I will respond directly to that one thing. Let's see if you are willing to actually debate me on this.

My response to your OP is very simple. We are not under the Mosaic law anymore. We are not obligated to follow the 613 commandments, of which the 2 separate and different "10 Commandments" are overviews of. That pretty much takes down this entire thread. Care to debate that point with me?

Tell me which of these restored 10 commandments do you think Christians need to follow? From Exodus 34:

1. Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land.​

2. Do not make any idols.​

3. Celebrate the Festival of Unleavened Bread.​

4. The first offspring of every womb belongs to me.​

5. No one is to appear before me empty-handed.​

6. Six days you shall labor, but on the seventh day you shall rest.​

7. Celebrate the Festival of Weeks with the firstfruits of the wheat harvest, and the Festival of Ingathering at the turn of the year.​

8. Do not offer the blood of a sacrifice to me along with anything containing yeast, and do not let any of the sacrifice from the Passover Festival remain until morning.​

9. Bring the best of the firstfruits of your soil to the house of the Lord your God.​

10. Do not cook a young goat in its mother’s milk.​

Which do you keep, and which do you cherry pick that you think are important today? You really have no argument that stands, unless you intend to keep the whole law.

QUESTION: To restate your OP, "Where is the scripture that says 10th commandment that says "Do not cook a young goat in its mother's milk", has been abolished? I mean seriously, where? And yet, do you care?

Where is the scripture that says the 7th commandment to "Celebrate the Festival of Weeks", has been abolished? Where? Can you find it?? If not, then why aren't YOU celebrating it??

This is no argument at all on your part. There is no one scripture that says that, but that doesn't matter. The Bible does teach why we don't need to anymore. "Where does the Bible say "bible", yet do you refuse to call it a Bible because there is no one verse that says to call it that?

 

[2ndpillar]

I am simply saying you do not speak with love. You curse and condemn with your lips. The fruit you bear is not the fruits of the spirit, but the fruits of anger and rage and hatred of your neighbors. Judge for yourself what that means.

I don't know. It appears that the liars, dogs, immoral persons, murderers, idolaters, are going to be found locked out of gates (Revelation 22:15). Maybe it would be "merciful" to tell them what is coming for them if they don't change and repent. It is too late when they find themselves in a "place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 13:41), instead of thinking there is "peace" (Jeremiah 6:14).

Jeremiah 6:13-14…13“For from the least of them to the greatest, all are greedy for gain; from prophet to priest, all practice deceit. 14They dress the wound of My people with very little care, saying, ‘Peace, peace,’ when there is no peace at all. 15Are they ashamed of the abomination they have committed? No, they have no shame at all; they do not even know how to blush. So they will fall among the fallen; when I punish them, they will collapse,” says the LORD.…

 

[3rdAngel]

I am not micro-quoting anything. I don't have the energy to dissect 30 different verses that you are using to all justify the same thing. So I chose one or two, and focus there. I believe you don't want a challenge to anything, so you barrage people with a million quotes, and then falsely accuse them of not addressing your argument. I have addressed it. Yet you refuse to reply, and try to shift the blame to me. Not going to work. The truth here is obvious.


What I post is in direct response to everything you are saying. Why are you avoiding answering? I believe I know why. If you don't believe me, then post any one thing you wish me to address, and I will respond directly to that one thing. Let's see if you are willing to actually debate me on this.

My response to your OP is very simple. We are not under the Mosaic law anymore. We are not obligated to follow the 613 commandments, of which the 2 separate and different "10 Commandments" are overviews of. That pretty much takes down this entire thread. Care to debate that point with me?

Tell me which of these restored 10 commandments do you think Christians need to follow? From Exodus 34:

1. Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land.​

2. Do not make any idols.​

3. Celebrate the Festival of Unleavened Bread.​

4. The first offspring of every womb belongs to me.​

5. No one is to appear before me empty-handed.​

6. Six days you shall labor, but on the seventh day you shall rest.​

7. Celebrate the Festival of Weeks with the firstfruits of the wheat harvest, and the Festival of Ingathering at the turn of the year.​

8. Do not offer the blood of a sacrifice to me along with anything containing yeast, and do not let any of the sacrifice from the Passover Festival remain until morning.​

9. Bring the best of the firstfruits of your soil to the house of the Lord your God.​

10. Do not cook a young goat in its mother’s milk.​

Which do you keep, and which do you cherry pick that you think are important today? You really have no argument that stands, unless you intend to keep the whole law.

QUESTION: To restate your OP, "Where is the scripture that says 10th commandment that says "Do not cook a young goat in its mother's milk", has been abolished? I mean seriously, where? And yet, do you care?

Where is the scripture that says the 7th commandment to "Celebrate the Festival of Weeks", has been abolished? Where? Can you find it?? If not, then why aren't YOU celebrating it??

This is no argument at all on your part. There is no one scripture that says that, but that doesn't matter. The Bible does teach why we don't need to anymore. "Where does the Bible say "bible", yet do you refuse to call it a Bible because there is no one verse that says to call it that?

Please answer my questions. You are indeed micro-quoting my words and putting a spin on what I was not saying and ignored all the post content and scriptures that were in direct disagreement with you. The discussion in this OP I believe is already on track. To me it seems that you are clearly not here for a discussion on what the bible says or you would be addressing my post content and the scriptures provided in them that are in direct disagreement with you. Why do you want me to now jump to another post that you posted to someone else when you are unwilling to address anything in the posts and scriptures I have already spent time sharing with you that you are unwilling to discuss with me? I am very happy to show you why your post here is twisting scripture and is not biblical if you are willing to address the full content of my posts and scriptures are in disagreement with you. Do we have an agreement?

 

[3rdAngel]

I am simply saying you do not speak with love. You curse and condemn with your lips. The fruit you bear is not the fruits of the spirit, but the fruits of anger and rage and hatred of your neighbors. Judge for yourself what that means.

I know this is not directed towards me but to @2ndpillar. However, your post simply sounds judgemental to me (see Romans 2:1-8). It is not being hateful to tell the truth dear friend if someone's salvation is at stake. It is loving and it is our duty of love to God and our fellow man (see 1 Timothy 5:20; 2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Timothy 4:2; Titus 2:13-15).

Take care.

 

[Windwalker]

Please answer my questions.

Alright. Present me with one of them than, as I asked you to. Don't expect me to reply to 27 pages of posts. Help me out here. Just ask me the question you want answered. Can you do that?

You are indeed micro-quoting my words and putting a spin on what I was not saying and ignored all the post content and scriptures that were in direct disagreement with you.

I know you've accused me of this, but I don't know what you mean. I quote your posts. I quote sections of them which I feel are pertinent. What is wrong with that, pray tell me?

Also, what is "micro-quoting"? I've never heard that term before, and a Google search doesn't yield anything either. The only definition of that I find is this. "Micro Quotes. Mirco Quotes is a series of quote illustrations that are drawn by hand at a small scale and created in various media."

Do you think I'm doing that? I'm puzzled indeed.

I am very happy to show you why your post here is twisting scripture and is not biblical if you are willing to address the full content of my posts and scriptures are in disagreement with you. Do we have an agreement?

Condense it down for me. I will not agree to respond to 27 pages of posts. You should be able to just tell me specifically what you want me to address. And by all mean, show me how what I am saying is not scripturally sound? I welcome it. Yet, that has yet to be forthcoming from you.

 

[Windwalker]

I know this is not directed towards me but to @2ndpillar. However, your post simply sounds judgemental to me (see Romans 2:1-8). It is not being hateful to tell the truth dear friend if someone's salvation is at stake. It is loving and it is our duty of love to God and our fellow man (see 1 Timothy 5:20; 2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Timothy 4:2; Titus 2:13-15).

Take care.

It's not judgemental. Every one of his posts gratuitously, without any context for doing so, spews bile at liberals, and progressives, and democrats, as laweness and damned child molestors, and whatnot. I am simply telling him, this is not something that is consistent with following the teachings of Jesus. It is concerning that he does this. I actually feel badly that he feels compelled to do this in every post. It must be coming from a place of internal pain, and that would explain why things like Grace and Mercy are so looked down upon. Anger and hatred held towards others cannot abide those.

Or do you think cursing others is what Jesus teaches his followers to do? How do you feel about those Christians who don't curse the others, and show them grace and mercy instead? As weak and lawless sinners, as twisting scripture? How do you feel about other Christians who disagree with you about the 4th commandment? As lost and deceived? Be honest here.

All I am asking here is "Where's the love"? Isn't that what Christianity is supposed to be about? Isn't that the greatest commandment, not the 4th one in the 1st decolog, or the 6th one in the 2nd one? Why is the focus on that, instead of love? Can you answer that honest question from me, please?

 

[3rdAngel]

Alright. Present me with one of them than, as I asked you to. Don't expect me to reply to 27 pages of posts. Help me out here. Just ask me the question you want answered. Can you do that?

I have never responded to you or anyone else here with a 27 page response so I am not sure what you are talking about here to be honest. So I take it that you agree and will respond to all my posts and scriptures share with you like I do with yours?

I know you've accused me of this, but I don't know what you mean. I quote your posts. I quote sections of them which I feel are pertinent. What is wrong with that, pray tell me?

Also, what is "micro-quoting"? I've never heard that term before, and a Google search doesn't yield anything either. The only definition of that I find is this. "Micro Quotes. Mirco Quotes is a series of quote illustrations that are drawn by hand at a small scale and created in various media."

Do you think I'm doing that? I'm puzzled indeed.

No, micro-quoting in context to a discussion is when people do not address the complete post and its content but select one of two small sections of a post normally taken out of context to the full post and then pretend to address it in order not to address the main post they are quoting from as a whole response.

Condense it down for me. I will not agree to respond to 27 pages of posts. You should be able to just tell me specifically what you want me to address. And by all mean, show me how what I am saying is not scripturally sound? I welcome it. Yet, that has yet to be forthcoming from you.

As posted earlier I have never made a 27 page post response. I would want you to address my whole post and its contents just as I do for your posts showing why you agree or disagree and use scripture as supporting evidence. This has not been forthcoming from you dear friend and I do not believe you welcome it because if you did you would have started addressing the content of my posts and the scriptures in them that are in disagreement with you.

Take Care.

 

[blü 2]

The "Christian" day of rest was determined by the Roman emperor Constantine in the year 321 A.D. in deference to his god, Sol Invictus, the sun god, and Sunday being the "day of the sun". As Constantine was the "beast with two horns like a lamb", well those with his "mark" are going to have to drink from the "cup of His anger" (Revelation 14:10). With Iran joining forces with Russia and China, and Russian nuclear armed submarines off the East and West coast of the U.S., with Russia in possession of large EMP nuclear weapons, and an EMP attack on the U.S. could kill over 90% of its citizens in 30 days, and the banking system is failing, and the U.S. no longer having a sizeable strategic oil reserve to fight a war, and many of its younger citizens not able to do a single pull up, I think the "great tribulation" is closer than most would admit.

2ndpillar

Are you sure about that? For example, Colossians 2:16 says "Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food or drink, or with regard to a festival, or a new moon or a sabbath" (RSV). Assuming that Colossians was indeed written by Paul, and not by Timothy or Anon as some scholars have argued, that would suggest that Christians were observing a different sabbath by, say, the 50s CE, no? Or if written by another, then by the early 2nd century CE or so, no? Either way, that's a long time before Constantine.

 

[Brian2]

Hi @Brian2. Your website is not being truthful or does not know the bible or new testament. All the 10 commandments are repeated in the new testament and there is no scripture that says anywhere in the whole bible that Gods 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word against the very warnings of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9.

GOD'S 10 COMMANDMENTS REPEATED IN THE NEW COVENANT

1 You shall have no other gods before Me. (Luke 4:8; Matthew 4:10; Revelation 14:7)
2 You shall make no idols (John 4:24; Acts 15:20; 1 Corinthians 6:9; Ephesians 5:5; 1 Peter 4:3; 1 John 5:21; Revelation 2:14)
3 You shall not take the Name of the Lord your God in vain.
(1 Timothy 6:1, James 2:7)
4 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. – Binding on all Christians today -Hebrews 4:9 (Colossians 2:16 is in reference to the annual sabbaths in the feast days) (Mark 2:27-28, Hebrews 4:1-9; Matthew 12:8; Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56(Mark 2:28; Matthew 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matthew 16:24; 1; Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Revelations 1:10
5 Honour your father and mother. (Ephesians 6:1-2; Colossians 3:20; Matthew 15:4; Matthew 19:19)
6 You shall not murder (Matthew 5:44-45; Matt. 5:21-26; Romans 13:9; 1 Timothy 1:9; 1 John 3:15; James 2:11; Matthew 19:18)
7 You shall not commit adultery. (Matthew 5:28, 1 Cor. 5:11, 1 Cor. 6:18, Galatians 5:19, Hebrews 13:4, James 2:11, Matthew 19:19, Romans 13:9)
8 You shall not steal. (1 Corinthians 6:10, Romans 2:21, Mark 7:21, Ephesians 4:28, Romans 13:9, Matthew 19:18)
9 You shall not bear false witness. (Matthew 15:19, Ephesians 4:25, Col. 3:9; Matthew 19:18, Romans 13:9)
10 You shall not covet your neighbors possessions. (Luke 12:15, Romans 7:7, Ephesians 5:3, 1 Timothy 6:10, Hebrews 13:5, Romans 13:9)

JESUS AND THE APOSTLES OBEYED AND TAUGHT THE SABBATH

• It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath - Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)
• Jesus made the Sabbath for all mankind - Hebrews 1:2; John 1:1-3; 14; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16-17; Mark 2:27
• Jesus is Lord (creator) and owner of the Sabbath - Mark 2:28
• If you do not believe and follow God you cannot enter His Sabbath rest - Hebrews 4
• It is one of God’s 10 commandments we break it we are guilty or breaking all - James 2:8-12
• Breaking it is sin - 1 John 3:4
• God’s true followers keep it Holy as God commanded - Revelation 14:12; 22:14; Ezekiel 20:20
• Jesus is our example and he kept the Sabbath - Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matthew 16:24; 1 Corinthians 11:1; Ephesians 5:1-21; Peter 2:20-22
• The Apostle and disciples all kept the Sabbath after the death and resurrection of Jesus - Acts of the Apostles 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Revelation 1:10
• Jesus taught that God's people would be still keeping the Sabbath well after the death and resurrection - Matthew 24:20; Mark 13:18.

IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ....

1. Jesus taught that it is lawful to do GOOD on the Sabbath? (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)

2. Jesus taught that God's Sabbath was made for mankind and not man for the Sabbath rebuking the tradtions of the Jew in regards to their traditions and interpretation around Sabbath keeping? (Mark 2:27-28; Matthew 12:8)

3. Jesus taught that he was the maker and creator of the Sabbath and the God of creation? (Hebrews 1:2; John 1:1-3; 14; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16-17; Mark 2:27)

4. Jesus is our example who kept the Sabbath as well as all those who followed him (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matt 16:24; Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

5. Jesus taught that anyone who breaks God's Commandments and teaches others to do so will not enter God's Kingdom? (Matt 5:19)

6. Jesus taught that not a jot or tittle will pass from God's LAW until heaven and earth pass away? (Matthew 5:18)

7. Jesus taught that on the two great commandments of LOVE to GOD and MAN hang ALL the LAW and the prophets (Matthew 22:36-40)

8. Paul warns us that those who do NOT believe and follow GOD do not enter into God's Sabbath rest because of their SINS and UNBELIEF (Hebrews 3-4)

9. Jesus, Paul, James, John and Peter taught there is 10 Commandments including the Sabbath and not 9 commandments and if you break one of God's Commandments you stand guilty before God of breaking all of them (James 2:8-12).

10. Timothy teaches that ALL SCRIPTURE (OLD AND NEW Testament) is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16)

Why would Jesus and the Apostles give us further instruction in relation to Sabbath keeping building on the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures if we no longer need to keep it? (Point 1, 2, 3, 6 and see previous section on Jesus teaching us about the Sabbath).

SIN is the transgression or breaking of God's Commandments (Romans 7:7; James 2:8-12; 1 John 3:4
Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN. God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27) Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9) There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day. Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God? In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

Take Care.

I suppose about 200 scriptures to answer is a bit of a shut down for me. Maybe I can answer some of them but in this post I will just ask about Matt 19

Matt 19:17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
18 “Which ones?” he inquired.
Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.”

So Jesus left out the commandment that says don't covet but I suppose that is covered with the adultery and stealing commandments really, (coveting our neighbour's goods is stealing them in our heart just as lusting after someone is adultery in our heart)
Jesus also left out the first 4 commandments.
Do you think that Jesus meant that the first 4 commandments are not necessary to enter life and if not, why not?

 

[blü 2]

Yep Sunday worship as a replacement for Gods 4th commandment in honor of the resurrection of Jesus is a man-made teaching and tradition not supported by scripture. It has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9.

3rdAngel

Hmm. I have trouble reading Matthew 15:3-9 as an affirmation of a Saturday sabbath. Indeed, the passage seems to be talking about the Law generally, rather than the Decalogue; and it concludes by approving what appears to be a straightforward violation of the commandment to honor your parents.

But we agree that there's no clear authority for a Sunday sabbath in scripture ─ though see my post #532 just above.

 

[3rdAngel]

It's not judgemental. Every one of his posts gratuitously, without any context for doing so, spews bile at liberals, and progressives, and democrats, as laweness and damned child molestors, and whatnot. I am simply telling him, this is not something that is consistent with following the teachings of Jesus. It is concerning that he does this. I actually feel badly that he feels compelled to do this in every post. It must be coming from a place of internal pain, and that would explain why things like Grace and Mercy are so looked down upon. Anger and hatred held towards others cannot abide those.

Its judgemental to condemn others saying that there posts are fill of hate and rage and not love. Do you know for a fact that @2ndpillar 's posts are written in hate? What about John the Baptist calling the Scribes and the Pharisees sinners and vipers (snakes) saying to them who has warned you of the wrath to come? Therefore bring forth fruit meet for repentance in Matthew 3:7-8. Was John the baptist being hateful or loving warning those who professed to believe and follow Gods Word sinners in need of Gods salvation? Or better still, what about Jesus? Was Jesus being hateful when he pronounced woes on the Scribes and the Pharisees calling them sinners and Hypocrites? (Matthew 23:13-39) or was Jesus and John being loving and helping those who were lost in their sins but could not see it? No I do not know @2ndpillar and I do not know His past conversations with you. I do know as posted earlier that God loves him as much as I know God loves you and me and I have not seen what you have claiming of him if I am being honest with you. I know I do not judge him like I do not judge you. Only Gods Word is our judge and we should believe and follow it (John 12:47-48; Romans 3:4; Acts 5:29; 31). I know Gods' Word tells me not to judge the heart of someone I do not know in Romans 2:1-8 and that it is our duty of love to share the scriptures with those who are walking in sin and unbelief (see 1 Timothy 5:20; 2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Timothy 4:2; Titus 2:13-15).

Or do you think cursing others is what Jesus teaches his followers to do? How do you feel about those Christians who don't curse the others, and show them grace and mercy instead? As weak and lawless sinners, as twisting scripture? How do you feel about other Christians who disagree with you about the 4th commandment? As lost and deceived? Be honest here.

The is mostly addressed in the previous section. However, Jesus of course love the sinner by hates the sin because it is sin that separates us from God's presence (see Isaiah 59:2) and it is through sin that many will be lost when Jesus returns to take those who believe and obey His Word home at the second coming (see Matthew 7:21-23 and Hebrews 10:26-31).

All I am asking here is "Where's the love"? Isn't that what Christianity is supposed to be about? Isn't that the greatest commandment, not the 4th one in the 1st decolog, or the 6th one in the 2nd one? Why is the focus on that, instead of love? Can you answer that honest question from me, please?

Jesus asks this question to everyone of us. He says where is the love and that I know you that you do not have the love of God in you (John 5:42) which is why we all need to be born again into Gods new covenant promise to walk in Gods Spirit to love. This is why Jesus says if you love me keep my commandments and you will abide in my love as I have kept the fathers commandments (John 14:15; John 15:10). The two great commandments of love to God and love to man Jesus is quoting from in Matthew 22:36-40 (Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18) are simply summing up Gods 10 commandment which Paul shows in Romans 13:8-10; James in James 2:8-12 and why John says in 1 John 5:2-3 "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. This is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." So to tell someone to keep the commandments of God and to stop sinning is an act of love in my view but Jesus tells us many will not hear His Words, they close their eye and ears to seeing and believing Gods Words so that God can heal them *Isaiah 6:9-10 and Jesus says in John 3:19-21 "This is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are worked in God." Lets all pray therefore that we are of those who come to the light of Gods Word when Jesus calls us to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith or not and to put away our sins and return to His Word so that our deeds may be manifest that they are worked in God. Love dear friend is expressed in what we say and what we do. It is not hateful to share Gods Word if it brings the sinner back to God and Jesus.

Take Care.

 

[3rdAngel]

3rdAngel

Hmm. I have trouble reading Matthew 15:3-9 as an affirmation of a Saturday sabbath. Indeed, the passage seems to be talking about the Law generally, rather than the Decalogue; and it concludes by approving what appears to be a straightforward violation of the commandment to honor your parents.

But we agree that there's no clear authority for a Sunday sabbath in scripture ─ though see my post #532 just above.

Hello Blu...

Matthew 15:3-9 application is to Gods 10 commandments using the example of the 5th commandment to honor your father and mother found in Exodus 20:12 along with all of Gods 10 commandments in Exodus 20:3-17. Lets put up the whole scripture and discuss it and look at what Jesus is saying...

• Matthew 15:3-9 3, But he answered and said to them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? 4, For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death. 5, But you say, Whoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatever you might be profited by me; 6, And honor not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. 7, You hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8, This people draws near to me with their mouth, and honors me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9, But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

KEY POINTS FROM THE SCRIPTURES ABOVE

1. Gods people were breaking Gods 5th commandment of the 10 commandments by following their traditions (Matthew 15:3-6)
2. Gods people made of none effect Gods 5th commandment by their traditions (Matthew 15:6)
3. Jesus tells them that that by following their traditions and teachings that lead them to break the commandments of God they draw near to him with their words but they heart (minds and actions) are far from him
4. Jesus tells them it is vain to think we are worshiping God if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God (Matthew 15:9).

In Matthew 15:3-9 the law context is to Gods 10 commandments using the example of Gods 5th commandment (Exodus 20:12). Now swap out Gods 5th commandment and replace it with Gods 4th commandment in Matthew 15:3-9. There is not a single scripture in all the bible that says Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandments has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. Sunday worship (just like dishonoring our parents and instead just giving a gift to the Church) is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings given in Matthew 15:3-9.

Take Care.

 

[Brian2]

4 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. – Binding on all Christians today -Hebrews 4:9 (Colossians 2:16 is in reference to the annual sabbaths in the feast days) (Mark 2:27-28, Hebrews 4:1-9; Matthew 12:8; Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56(Mark 2:28; Matthew 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matthew 16:24; 1; Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Revelations 1:10

Heb 4:1 Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. 2 For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed. 3 Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,
“So I declared on oath in my anger,
‘They shall never enter my rest.’”
And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world. 4 For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works.” 5 And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”
6 Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7 God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

This passage does not appear to be speaking about any obligation on Christians today to keep the Sabbath.
The rest that those in the wilderness with Moses did not enter was the land that God had promised them.
We enter that rest through belief and obedience to the gospel message.
It does not say that because we believe we need to keep the sabbath rest.

Col 2:16 may be about annual sabbaths in the feast days, but it says nothing about the weekly sabbaths being binding on all Christians today.

Mark 2:27 Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 28 So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”
I don't see anything there about the Sabbath being binding on Christians.

Matthew 12:1-12 say nothing about Christians having to keep the Sabbath. It speaks about Jews and how they were keeping the Sabbath.
Matt 24:20 also says nothing about Christian having to keep the Sabbath. It hints that the Sabbath will be kept in Jerusalem at the time of the destruction of the Temple and in any later fulfillment of Jesus prophecy and it will be hard to flee then. This might be because of a number of reasons in Jerusalem on the Sabbath. Actually the public transport shuts down on the Sabbath in Jerusalem.

 

[2ndpillar]

Was Jesus being hateful when he pronounced woes on the Scribes and the Pharisees calling them sinners and Hypocrites? (Matthew 23:13-39) or was Jesus and John being loving and helping those who were lost in their sins but could not see it?

Matthew 23:13-39 was placing the guilt/blood of those who the Pharisees persecuted and killed upon their sons, those that follow the Pharisees that persecuted and killed God's "righteous". The angels of death are a coming, and it is best that one does not follow the wide path of the false prophets down the path to "destruction" (Matthew 7:13-15)

 

[2ndpillar]

So Jesus left out the commandment that says don't covet but I suppose that is covered with the adultery and stealing commandments really, (coveting our neighbour's goods is stealing them in our heart just as lusting after someone is adultery in our heart)
Jesus also left out the first 4 commandments.
Do you think that Jesus meant that the first 4 commandments are not necessary to enter life and if not, why not?

Yeshua also didn't list "thou shalt have no other gods before me", or "thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image", or "thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain". He listed how to love one's neighbor, and apparently thought it goes without saying that one should love God with your whole heart and mind, which would include the above. But, apparently, he left the door open for those without eyes to see, or ears to hear, that they can choose between "good" and "evil", which is the religion of the "serpent" (Genesis 3:3-4), and of course that religion surely leads to death. One must keep the Sabbath to worship on God's mountain. This is inclusive of "all the nations"/Gentiles

Isaiah 56:5-7 I will give them an everlasting name that will not be cut off. 6And the foreigners who join themselves to the LORD to minister to Him, to love the name of the LORD, and to be His servants— all who keep the Sabbath without profaning it and who hold fast to My covenant— 7I will bring them to My holy mountain and make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on My altar, for My house will be called a house of prayer for all the nations.”…

 

[pearl]

It's nonsense for Christians outside of that system of law with all of its precepts to seize upon the 1st of the two sets of the decalog as the "important one", and choosing saying the 4th commandment to stand out as timeless and eternal, binding for all generations, both Jews and Christians as forever important, while the 2nd replacement set of the 10 commandments by God is ignored.

Catholics follow the listing and wording in the Decalogue from Deut. in which the first three pertain to God.

Why do they treat the Old Testament as its equal?

Without Hebrew Scripture there would be no Christian Scripture.