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Where Is Our Humanity?

Discussion in 'International Politics' started by Ellen Brown, May 15, 2019.

  1. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    We've seen floods of immigrants leaving Africa and the Middle East and going to Europe. People are leaving South and Central America and stacking up along the Southern American Border. If these folk had any choice at all to stay home, they would not be trying to flee to America.

    Anti Immigrant folk seem to think that holding these folk in camps at the border is a deterrent, but so far that does not seem to be working.

    First on CNN: TSA to deploy hundreds, including air marshals, to border - CNNPolitics
     
  2. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Yep, and it's appalling that so many who claim to be religious don't really seem to care what happens to them. Jesus said "and you shall know them by their fruits", and yet all too many of the self-righteous just turn a blind eye to others suffering whereas we could take some actions to at least ameliorate the situations.
     
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  3. beenherebeforeagain

    beenherebeforeagain Rogue Animist
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    and not all the things we could do would require allowing everyone to immigrate...things like not supporting bad governments, for example...
     
  4. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    "Our" humanity doesn't exist. Humanity is not a collective process. Your humanity exists with you. You make your choices as your humanity dictates. Others make their choices according to their humanity.

    At best I think others might see you as an example. For better or worse. Our humanity, if such a thing can be said to exist, lies with you.
     
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  5. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    It's ironic that those who hate immigrants also tend to support policies that create immigrants.
     
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  6. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member
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    It isn working because they know under US law they will be shortly released, and they can disappear into the country, never to be accountable for their breaking US law.

    This is an issue that appears to show a clash between being humane, and the huge economic losses entailed by illegal immigration.

    It is not.

    Hungary has true deterrence at itś border ( or is it the Czech Republic?) they shoot illegal crossers, they have virtually no illegal immigration.

    Certainly not very humane, but it works.

    So, what exactly is our obligation to people of another country who illegally enter the US ?

    Asylum ? Yes, for those whose lives are endangered by government oppression in their home country.

    Yet almost 90% of those who illegally cross and claim asylum who go to a hearing are denied, so asylum is not really an issue.

    So, we have refined the issue to, what do we owe to illegal economic migrants.

    Certainly most come here for greater financial opportunity, but what does that mean ?

    Because of our compassion, the free benefits they can get here automatically makes them better off than where they came from. Contrary to what you are being told, they get free healthcare, they cannot be denied treatment for anything if they show up at a hospital ER, and they are never billed. I know of one case where a drunk illegal wandered into the road and was hit by a car, his case cost the hospital over $500,000, which they ultimately no doubt passed on to others.

    Most work, and work hard, yet because they are uneducated and unskilled, their pay is not enough to support their families, and they adhere to the traditional family structure, most often wives do not work.

    Because of this inability to support their families, they receive things like food stamps and other government benefits. Interestingly, if they work and file income taxes, if their income does not reach a certain level, they not only do not pay the tax, the government gives them a ¨ refund ¨, that they never earned.

    So, we are certainly very compassionate toward illegal aliens, who put one foot on US soil.

    I live in a border state, and illegals have over run some of our towns and cities.

    The corruption in the illegal alien business is well documented, stolen, rented, or bought children from the cartels in Mexico to allow someone to go free after 20 days is rife, the kids are then recycled in Mexico for another illegal claiming sanctuary.

    If you actually speak to Border Patrol officers you hear amazing stories of drug smuggling, gun smuggling and disguised gangsters coming across the border.

    So, should compassion supersede stopping illegal entry and itś ills, especially the financial impact ?

    No. We owe compassion to our own citizens first. The huge losses to illegal immigration , billions of dollars a year ,cannot be sustained by a nation 22 trillion dollars in debt.

    The arm of compassion, money,will run out, and there will be no compassion for anyone, even our own people who deserve it.

    Our amnesty laws are foolish, though amnesty should continue to be a criteria for entry.

    Illegals should be detained till their status hearing, and if that means building more detention facilities where we must house, feed and provide medical care, so be it. This in itself will be a deterrent, the whole object after all is to be held a short time and then be released to disappear into the country. If they know they will have a hearing, and that 85% of them will be removed, they won´t migrate through Mexico, to get a foot on US soil.

    Ultimately, the people of a nation are responsible for the government they have. We cannot take in all of the poor in the world, and it is patently unfair to allow people from Central America essentially a free pass, when the poor of, say Africa, are just as important.

    The American taxpayer is owed the prudent use of their tax money, since we cannot truly afford billions to illegal aliens, the money should not be spent for that purpose.

    If their adjudication finds them not eligible for sanctuary, they should be promptly removed.
     
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  7. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Maybe working on making the grass greener on your own side of the fence would work better. Most folks don't really want to leave home.
     
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  8. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Exactly, and I would never suggest that we should have open borders, and we certainly don't have to support bad governments as there are other agencies we can often work through.

    Within the Northern Triangle Countries, for example, the Catholic Church has been playing a major role in helping those in need through Catholic Services Appeal and also numerous church churches and agencies there. Also, helping other neighboring countries with refugees fleeing there is badly needed or they too may collapse from the burden as we have seen in Europe.
     
  9. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    Metis, I agree that caring is a priority and I'm not sure that people simply don't care and if it is that black and white.

    For an example, I do care and therefore we help in the country that they are a part of. Is controlled immigration anti-caring?

    My wife is an immigrant as well as her family, is it wrong to go through a process for assimilating people?

    Or, one thing I always wondered, how do these poor families travel by foot through various countries, get fed, pay the coyotes if they are having such a hard time? Or, since I have lived in a foreign country for many years as well as my wife being born in another country, how prevalent is crime and criminal activity? Is everyone on the border good hearted, honest workers or are there people who have ulterior motives?

    What I am trying to say, although perhaps not very well, I think most people, if not more than 90%, have no problem with immigration. But rather it is the uncontrolled, whosever, never mind if they are criminals or corrupt to have and unfettered access that people have a problem with. And not a love issue. (not saying there aren't those who do have a love issue)
     
  10. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    The same thing happens at home. Those who blame, belittle, and loathe the poor the loudest are the same people who support a culture and economic system that creates and sustains poverty.
     
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  11. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    There are a couple of important things to understand about the refugee/immigration problem.

    1. Throughout it's history, the U.S. has deliberately destabilized, helped to overthrow, and installed ruthless dictators in other countries to ensure cheap and easy access to their material resources and labor. WE ARE THE CAUSE of the horror-show that most of these refugees are now fleeing from. We wanted their oil, or their timber, or their diamonds, or their coffee, or their bananas, or ... whatever it was, and we wanted them to grow/dig/drill/cut/ - do all the work, basically, and then give us these things for as little money as we could get away with paying them. And that was much easier once we installed a criminal cadre of local thugs as their 'government' that we could then bribe and use as armed bullies against their own people should those people demand better wages, better working condition, a better deal for their resources, etc.,

    2. The ruling class in the U.S. WANT THE ILLEGAL LABOR. They have always wanted it, and they have made sure that regardless of our sputtering to the contrary, we never actually did anything to stop it. They want it because they want that cheap labor force that they can use, abuse, and throw away when they're no longer useful, without any repercussions. And they want that cheap illegal labor because it significantly drives down wages across the board. Even if they do not hire illegals, just the fact that they exist, and could be utilized, keeps everyone else's wages low, and everyone else afraid for their jobs. And this is very good for the profit margins of the ruling class.

    3. The refugee "dilemma" is really a problem of appearances. The ruling class in the U.S., (as in every other wealthy nation) really do not care if foreign children are raped, kidnapped and pimped out, die of starvation, sickness, or whatever. Many of them don't even care if this befalls domestic children. They would sell us poison if it made them rich. BUT, they don't want to have to see it happening, and they really don't want the rest of us to see it happening, because they can't afford to have us asking ourselves WHY it's happening. And the truth is that many of us have bought into their Darwinian 'greed-fest' as an inevitable way of human life to the extent that we, too, really don't care about anyone else's children being raped, pimped, killed, or whatever so long as we don't have to see it happening, and especially that we don't have to see how WE SUPPORTED IT.

    So it's all about maintaining the appearance of humanity while the ruling elite and their many sycophants behave like pigs, and thugs, and criminal sociopaths for fun, ego, and most of all, for profit. While the rest of us hide our heads up our a$$es hoping that no one will make us see how disgustingly complicit we are in all of this.
     
    #11 PureX, May 15, 2019
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
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  12. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    There are people in the world that don't have clean water, or enough to eat or basic healthcare, but Bevos is going to the moon.


    Jeff Bezos: ‘We Must Go Back to the Moon, and This Time to ...
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-ceo-jeff-bezos-pledges-to-expand-his-space...
    May 26, 2018 · Amazon.com founder and CEO Jeff Bezos vowed to use his rocket startup to develop robotic rovers and perhaps human habitats on the moon’s surface, even …
     
  13. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    It's a big game by the ruling elites. They want to flood the countries with 3rd world immigrants. That's why I'm against it. Nothing they want is ever any good for us. Just for them and their precious New World Order. I just keep asking the question why can't we help those people in their country? Why do they have to come to our country?

    People are so clueless; it's obviously to destroy your culture and take away your political power by flooding you with unassimilated people that don't know how to resist the ruling elites! So if you like that then by all means support mass immigration.

    I want education and other kinds of help for 3rd world countries not open border policies that only favor the ruling elites.
     
  14. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    There have been many, many new world orders ......
     
  15. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    And not one of them has ever been good.
     
  16. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Napoleon, Atilla the Hun, Alexander.. the list of new world orders is pretty long.
     
  17. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    I would debate the claim about Atilla. He ruled relatively little. I mean, he had no lasting kingdom. He just conquered and fought but the Huns didn't retain anything for long.

    The Franks actually had more of a new world order. Charlemagne and all that.
     
  18. Watchmen

    Watchmen Well-Known Member
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    Quit making sense!
     
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  19. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    The Huns were just an agent of chaos. The old world order at the time was the Roman empire. The Huns created chaos/destruction. The new world order was begun by the Franks who propagated the feudal system throughout Europe that would define the medieval age.

    The Feudal system itself was basically Roman in origin but adopted by the Franks modified to suit them.
     
  20. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Yep...…..
     
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