Where is Mount Sumeru?

[atanu]

So it's our Solar System's Center of Mass? I'm pretty sure that's inside Sun, albeit off-center from her core.

No. No. I understand that Mt. Meru is the spiritual centre, the Self. I included a passage from Rig Veda to indicate the actual location of Sun.

Centre of Heart, centre of the Being is the centre that Sun and planets revolve around.

 

[Riverwolf]

No. No. I understand that Mt. Meru is the spiritual centre, the Self. I included a passage from Rig Veda to indicate the actual location of Sun.

Centre of Heart, centre of the Being is the centre that Sun and planets revolve around.

Ah.

The whole idea of the physical world being an "illusion" is actually one of the reasons I stopped being Hindu in the first place. It's not something I can get behind. Sun as an external object, Giant, and Grandmother Goddess is enough for me to honor and respect her and her life-ruling Light.

Besides, we are made of Sun. No spiritual metaphysics are needed; everything in our bodies, and all around us on Earth, is made of the same stuff as Sun.

 

[atanu]

Ah.

The whole idea of the physical world being an "illusion" is actually one of the reasons I stopped being Hindu in the first place. It's not something I can get behind. Sun as an external object, Giant, and Grandmother Goddess is enough for me to honor and respect her and her life-ruling Light.

Besides, we are made of Sun. No spiritual metaphysics are needed; everything in our bodies, and all around us on Earth, is made of the same stuff as Sun.

You are correct. There are layers. First, we are indeed made of Sun and sustained by Sun. The following is the essence of praise and worship of Sun for us embodied beings.

Mayabheda
RV 10.177.01 to 10.177.03
The wise behold with their mind in their heart the Sun, made externally manifest by the illusion of the Asura;
The sages look into the solar orb, the ordainers desire the region of his rays.
The Sun bears the word in his mind; the Gandharva has spoken it within the wombs;
Sages cherish it in the place of sacrifice, brilliant, heavenly, ruling the mind.
I beheld the protector, never descending, going by his paths to the east and the west;

Yet, there is another layer. Sun owes its existence to Supreme Immutable.

Yajur Veda ii. 2. 10.
Yonder sun did not shine, the gods sought atonement for him, and for him they offered this oblation to Soma and Rudra: verily thereby they bestowed brightness upon him.
...

 

[Riverwolf]

You are correct. There are layers. First, we are indeed made of Sun and sustained by Sun. The following is the essence of praise and worship of Sun for us embodied beings.

Mayabheda
RV 10.177.01 to 10.177.03
The wise behold with their mind in their heart the Sun, made externally manifest by the illusion of the Asura;
The sages look into the solar orb, the ordainers desire the region of his rays.
The Sun bears the word in his mind; the Gandharva has spoken it within the wombs;
Sages cherish it in the place of sacrifice, brilliant, heavenly, ruling the mind.
I beheld the protector, never descending, going by his paths to the east and the west;

Yet, there is another layer. Sun owes its existence to Supreme Immutable.

Yajur Veda ii. 2. 10.
Yonder sun did not shine, the gods sought atonement for him, and for him they offered this oblation to Soma and Rudra: verily thereby they bestowed brightness upon him.
...

Such matters are not part of my belief system, or in the ways in which I honor Sun.

 

[atanu]

Such matters are not part of my belief system, or in the ways in which I honor Sun.

It is okay. All scripture, including the Buddhistic, suggest, a spiritual Sun:

"This is That" -- thus they realize the ineffable joy supreme. How can "This" be known? Does he give light or does he reflect light?

There the sun shines not, nor the moon, nor the stars; lightnings shine not there and much less earthly fire. From his light all these give light, and his radiance illumines all creation.

 

[Riverwolf]

It is okay. All scripture, including the Buddhistic, suggest:

"This is That" -- thus they realize the ineffable joy supreme. How can "This" be known? Does he give light or does he reflect light?

There the sun shines not, nor the moon, nor the stars; lightnings shine not there and much less earthly fire. From his light all these give light, and his radiance illumines all creation.

Yeah, yeah, that's all well and good for those religions.

My religion has no "Scripture."

 

[Native]

Unless that was pure exaggeration for effect, I think it can be pretty safely said to not be a physical mountain on Earth. A million miles (1.6 million kilometers) is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY past the upper limits of our atmosphere (which go up to about 600 km). Heck, that's even past Moon's apogee (greatest orbital distance from Earth), which is about 400,000 kilometers (250,000 miles).

Try to imagine the Milky Way distances instead . . . since the mythical Mount Meru resembles this.

Sagittarius A* (the * here is pronounced "star", so "Sagittarius A Star") at the Galaxy's Center is a supermassive black hole, roughly 4 million solar masses (that is, 4 million times the mass of Sun). Unless you have observational evidence to the contrary? (No, the Old Stories don't count as observational evidence.)

Yes there is observational evidence of the contrary, namely the "galactic rotation anomaly" which speaks against a "supermassive black hole" in the galactic center. On the contrary, all motions in the Milky Way is a spherical circuit of motion where everything is created in the center. This is why all objects in the galaxy orbits the center with the same velocity compared to the center.

The "old stories" claims the Milky Way center as "the Garden of Eden" and as such, the center of creation, as modern observations suggest here - http://www.space.com/29039-milky-way-stars-monster-black-hole.html

 

[Riverwolf]

Try to imagine the Milky Way distances instead . . . since the mythical Mount Meru resembles this.

...not really. On a galactic scale, a million miles is but the tiniest of specks.

Yes there is observational evidence of the contrary, namely the "galactic rotation anomaly" which speaks against a "supermassive black hole" in the galactic center.

How does that anomaly (which is solved by dark matter) speak against a supermassive black hole?

On the contrary, all motions in the Milky Way is a spherical circuit of motion where everything is created in the center. This is why all objects in the galaxy orbits the center with the same velocity compared to the center.

Has this hypothesis of yours (or whoever you got it from) been independently studied, calculated, tested, and peer-reviewed?

The "old stories" claims the Milky Way center as "the Garden of Eden"

The Garden of Eden is supposed to be on Earth. After all, the source names four rivers that pour out from it, two of which still flow (the Tigris and Euphrates.)

There's no suggestion in that entire story that it takes place in the Milky Way. Heck, I don't think the Milky Way is mentioned at all in Genesis.

and as such, the center of creation, as modern observations suggest here - http://www.space.com/29039-milky-way-stars-monster-black-hole.html

...uh, dude? You just cited a source that directly supports the notion of a supermassive black hole.

Also, I'm not sure you understand something. Nobody's saying that stars can't form there. However, not all stars formed there. There's plenty of star formation well outside the Galactic Core. For example, the Eagle Nebula is one of the other arms, not the Core. Plus, we've also gobbled up stars from other galaxies that we've obsorbed or are currently obsorbing.[/quote][/quote]

 

[Native]

Take, for instance, the World Tree from our Lore. It's said that Woden journeyed long to it and hanged himself from it for nine days and nights, before falling into the Wyrd Well at its base, from which he learned the Runes.

In the Norse Mythology, the World Tree "Ask Yggdrasil" stands in the three worlds of Asgaard,(the branches) Midgaard (the stem) and Udgaard (the Roots) i.e. the Tree resembles the entire creation since Midgaard = the Earth; Asgaard = the day and night Sky and Udgaard the giant contours of the Milky Way.

 

[Riverwolf]

In the Norse Mythology, the World Tree "Ask Yggdrasil"

"Ask" here is a mutation of the Old Norse word for "ash", as in "ash tree." But it just as easily could have been thought as a yew tree. The word "Yggdrasil", depending on some interpretations, can conceptually be translated to "Hanging Tree", as in, a tree that victims are hanged from.

And there's a reason why I used that form earlier. Woden is a God of the Hanged; that is, of people who were executed via hanging.

The World Tree may be a Tree of Life, but it's just as much a Tree of Death.

stands in the three worlds

Nine.

of Asgaard,(the branches) Midgaard (the stem) and Udgaard (the Roots) i.e. the Tree resembles the entire creation since Midgaard = the Earth; Asgaard = the day and night Sky and Udgaard the giant contours of the Milky Way.

And what is your source for this bit of nonsense? And of what relevance is it to my post?

 

[Native]

How does that anomaly (which is solved by dark matter) speak against a supermassive black hole?

The anomaly speaks of an opposite motion of the Solar System which provided the celestial law of motion around a gravity center. Inserting hypothetical "dark matter" doesn´t rescue anything else but the falsified gravity law. "Dark matter" hasn´t been found and it never will.

Has this hypothesis of yours (or whoever you got it from) been independently studied, calculated, tested, and peer-reviewed?

I got this hypothesis from reading the numerous cultural Stories of Creation.

The Garden of Eden is supposed to be on Earth. After all, the source names four rivers that pour out from it, two of which still flow (the Tigris and Euphrates.)
If you have had any knowledge of the Milky Way Mythology, you would know that the Milky Way contours are mythically mentioned as rivers.

There's no suggestion in that entire story that it takes place in the Milky Way. Heck, I don't think the Milky Way is mentioned at all in Genesis.

There are lots of other stories of creation than Genesis.

...uh, dude? You just cited a source that directly supports the notion of a supermassive black hole.

No, the astronomers in the article did use this term. I don´t belive in this speculative idea.

Also, I'm not sure you understand something. Nobody's saying that stars can't form there. However, not all stars formed there. There's plenty of star formation well outside the Galactic Core. For example, the Eagle Nebula is one of the other arms, not the Core. Plus, we've also gobbled up stars from other galaxies that we've obsorbed or are currently obsorbing.

Yes, stars can be formed in the galactic center - and everything around the center have once been formed in the center. Can you provide any evidence of "the gobbling up of other extragalactic stars"?.

 

[Native]

The World Tree may be a Tree of Life, but it's just as much a Tree of Death.

This fits very well with the World Tree which resembles the creation as such.

Nine.
Correct. Three worlds in Midgaard, Asgaard and Udgaard

 

[Native]

@Riverwolf

Anyway:

Quote from - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Meru#Hindu_legends

"Mount Meru of Hindu traditions is described as 84,000 Yojan high (about 1,082,000 km (672,000 mi), which would be 85 times the Earth's diameter), and notes that the Sun along with all the planets in the Solar System revolve around Mount Meru as one unit".

Regardless of the accuracy of distances, doesn´t this myth confirm the modern knowledge of the Solar System orbiting around the Milky Way center?

 

[Chakra]

I would not take many of these things literally. But if it is apparently the residence of Brahma/Devas, then it's probably in some other planetary system or realm.

 

[atanu]

Yeah, yeah, that's all well and good for those religions.
My religion has no "Scripture."

But we are discussing 'Meru', which is part of the scriptural background that I was citing.

 

[Riverwolf]

Yes, stars can be formed in the galactic center - and everything around the center have once been formed in the center. Can you provide any evidence of "the gobbling up of other extragalactic stars"?.

There is no evidence whatsoever that everything comes out of the center, and all the evidence to the contrary with plenty of stars forming well outside the Core. We can see it happening.

As for the Milky Way gobbling up other, smaller galaxies:
http://lightyears.blogs.cnn.com/2013/03/07/crumb-stars-suggest-milky-way-was-cannibalistic/

This fits very well with the World Tree which resembles the creation as such.

Correct. Three worlds in Midgaard, Asgaard and Udgaard

Nope. Esanyard is one of the Nine Worlds, as is Midyard. I've never even heard of this "Udgaard" of yours.

Your separation of the Nine into three rough segments is, as far as I can tell, your own invention. I know of no place in Lore where this distinction comes from.

@Riverwolf

Anyway:

Regardless of the accuracy of distances, doesn´t this myth confirm the modern knowledge of the Solar System orbiting around the Milky Way center?

No, it doesn't, because it makes no mention of the Milky Way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

 

[Riverwolf]

But we are discussing 'Meru', which is part of the scriptural background that I was citing.

Fair enough, though you did mention "all scripture", after I mentioned that these matters of "layers" aren't part of my religion or beliefs. I apologize if I took your posts out of context.

 

[atanu]

This in my understanding, is the personified Mount Meru. The Timeless Yogi.

 

[atanu]

In Sanskrit, the spine is called Meru-danda, the Staff of Meru. There seems to be an association.

 

[Native]

@Rivervolf;

"Mount Meru of Hindu traditions is described as 84,000 Yojan high (about 1,082,000 km (672,000 mi), which would be 85 times the Earth's diameter), and notes that the Sun along with all the planets in the Solar System revolve around Mount Meru as one unit".

Regardless of the accuracy of distances, doesn´t this myth confirm the modern knowledge of the Solar System orbiting around the Milky Way center?

No, it doesn't, because it makes no mention of the Milky Way.

The point of comparing myths with factual knowledge is to be familiar with both terms and see if they compute. You get nowhere fast if you just ignore the mythical term "Mount Meru", around which the entire Solar System orbits according to this myth.

And after ignoring the mythical term and description, you´re throwing a link on me on "confirming bias"?

Never mind the other cosmological issues - And "Udgaard" in Norse Mythology represents Jotunheim where the Giants resides.

Let´s stick to the topic from here, OK?