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where is God?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Corban, Jun 10, 2004.

  1. Corban

    Corban Member

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    Why did God stop talking to His children, where is the continuing revelation? why did He stop sending prophets?
     
  2. Runt

    Runt Well-Known Member

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    Cuz "he" really doesn't care about us?

    Cuz "he" doesn't really exist?

    Cuz "he" never REALLY talked to his children or sent any prophets?

    Or maybe "he" actually is talking to "his children" and sending prophets right and left, but nobody notices or cares?

    Maybe we are all prophets?

    Maybe all "his children" died off years ago and we only THINK we're his children?

    Can anyone else think of any possibilities?
     
  3. Master Vigil

    Master Vigil Well-Known Member

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    There is no "he." That brings out countless more possibilities.
     
  4. LCMS Sprecher

    LCMS Sprecher Member

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    Read the Bible. He continues to speak to us through His Word.
     
  5. Master Vigil

    Master Vigil Well-Known Member

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    But the bible does not prove that "he" said anything. Only proves that people wrote down what they thought or wanted people to think "he" said. I find it illogical that any perfect essence could have gender, or human characteristics. Or else, it would not be perfect. Therefore I believe in the Tao, not male or female but the perfect union of both, not good nor evil but the perfect union of both. Etc... The bible doesn't prove anything to me, only the fact that people could write back then.
     
  6. LCMS Sprecher

    LCMS Sprecher Member

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    You can't prove scientifically that the writers were inspired by God. You must accept it by faith.
     
  7. LeaderNotFollower

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    "You can't prove scientifically that the writers were inspired by God. You must accept it by faith."

    I warned you about this in another thread, LCMS. Be carful what you accept by faith, you might find out one day that everything you accepted was incorrect.
     
  8. Mr Spinkles

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    You cannot prove scientifically that Mr Spinkles is the supreme ruler of the world, either. Maybe it's because I'm not.




    ....or am I? Mu-hu-ha-ha! :mad:
     
  9. osha

    osha New Member

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    Why did God stop talking to His children?
    maby children is not a suitable word for God.. "he" doesn't have "children", "he" create us!!!

    the last prophet "he" sent was Mohammad ,,, and Mohammad said that he was the last prophet and nobody will come after him... and he warned Muslims "don't believe anybody who say i am a prophet" .....
    Mohammad was the last prophet... and the msg "Islam" was the last Msg to all people.

    where is the continuing revelation?
    as I said,,,, Islam was the last revelation..

    why did He stop sending prophets?
    because "he" said that "Islam" covers all aspects of life,,, everything that make people live savely and loveing each other..... "this is only for whom who obey Islam Rules"



    sorry if I said anything u don't like.... this is what we believe... and am trying to say the truth....


    many thanx.
     
  10. Master Vigil

    Master Vigil Well-Known Member

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    And I can also accept by "faith" that the Tao is everything and there is no "He." Which faith is right? The more logical one I assume, therefore I do not believe in a "He."

    And osha, how do we know mohammad wasn't lying? And from what I've heard about mohammad (correct me if I am wrong) is that he said jesus wasn't the savior. And that it was a mistake. But how could god mess up? He is supposed to be all powerful and perfect? Why did he have to send mohammad after he already sent jesus (whom is supposedly more than just a prophet but god incarnate.) This limits gods power and when you limit gods power you limit god, and when you have a limited god, you no longer have god. Therefore there is no god, only Tao.
     
  11. (Q)

    (Q) Active Member

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    why did He stop sending prophets?

    Haven’t you noticed – the street corners are filled with prophets extolling the virtues of gods.

    You can't prove scientifically that the writers were inspired by God. You must accept it by faith.

    But we can prove scientifically that most of the events claimed in the Bible either never really happened or can be explained by natural laws.
     
  12. Runt

    Runt Well-Known Member

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    Master Vigil, I don't think you're accepting the Tao by faith. In my opinion Tao is the essence of everything. It does not take "faith" to KNOW that everything exists (shall we try to prove that everything we know to exist does not really exist? I've tried and I got shot down by those of you who might try to argue, so don't even try it), so... if the Tao is the essence of everything and you claim that the Tao is everything, then you are basically saying everything = everying... which is an identity statement an a "no duh" statement at that.

    Logic and common sense, not faith.

    Course... that is based on my view of what the Tao is... yours might be entirely different.

    I, however, believe there is such a thing as a "He". The Tao is not a He, I seriously doubt God (if in reality God is basically a simpler vision of the Tao created by simpletons who believe human males are the highest finite things in the universe and therefore a God who looks and acts just like them must be the highest infinite thing in the universe) is REALLY a He... YOU, however, ARE a He. So He exists.

    But to yank this completely back on topic, I think a god who loves us and talks to us is simply wishful thinking. People think "God is almighty and created us. A human parent would love its child, so God must too, because GOD must be a lot like a human because humans are a lot like God--the Bible says so." However, I'm not even sure that God really notices our existence, let alone cares.
     
  13. Corban

    Corban Member

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    be careful what you don't accept by faith, you might find out one day that everything you argued against was true.
     
  14. Corban

    Corban Member

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    I've read the Bible, and so have the thousands of denominations out there that believe different things about it. why did God always have prophets that lead His people, Moses didn't just say here's the law, and then took off, He continued to lead by revelation from God, and prophets were called after him. Jesus didn't just say here's my gospel go figure it out. "He gave some some, apostles, and some, prophets; and some, evangelist; and some pastors and teachers, for the perfecting of the saints for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: TILL WE ALL COME IN THE "UNITY OF FAITH" (Ephesians 4:11-13) We are obviously not all in the unity of faith if we have thousands of denominations that believe different things, so where are the prophets? where are the apostles"

    After Judas killed himself, Mathias was chosen as an apostle to take his place, Paul is called an apostles, vacancies in the 12 apostles were filled because God knew the people needed inspired leaders not just writings, This is why John addressed the seven churches to give them more guidance because some were going astray, this is why Paul wrote letters because he knew the people would need more guidance. this is why we need inspired leaders called of God today, not who take this authority of themselves, for "no man taketh this honor unto himself but he that is called of God as was Aaron" but Prophets and Apostles called of God who can speak as directed by God. The word of the Bible is not enough, it was not enough in the days of Paul, it is not enough now, to say otherwise is a statement of pure ignorance ignoring the utter confusion that exists among those who read the Bible and call themselves "Christian"
     
  15. Ardhanariswar

    Ardhanariswar I'm back!

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    i believe that God exists everywhere. within everyone. he has no gender (but i use he cuz 'it' doesnt sound very respectful). he has no face, he bears no resembalance to man, because he is eternal, he is everwhere.
     
  16. Corban

    Corban Member

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    While browsing these posts I read an inscription to the unknown god, whom therefore you ignorantly worship, Him diclare i unto you.

    God is everyhwere, within everyone, then what is God, is it just an unknowable force, and what is this force, does it love, hate, does it care. This is life eternal to know God. Saying God is everything is the same as saying He is nothing because you assign no characteristics to him, and a being with no characteristics is not a being at all, therfore he is nothing, so you might as well be an athiest they believe god is nothing, you believe nothing is god.
     
  17. Runt

    Runt Well-Known Member

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    Um... small problem Corban. There is a distinct difference between nothing and everything. Your Bible makes it quite clear that first there was nothing and then God created everything. (The only other option is that everything already existed and God created nothing... making God powerless and unimportant. I suspect you don't like that description of God, so I suspect you will ignore this option).

    The Bible does NOT say that first there was nothing which was everything and then there was everything which was nothing. Nope, it makes a distinction between everything and nothing and therefore something that is everything cannot at the same time be nothing. It can't even be "like" nothing.

    Your problem with the concept of God being everything is simply this: A God that is everything is beyond your understanding because not everything is within your understanding. This does not, however, mean that such a God does not exist. In fact, it would be illogical to say that God is NOT everything because if God were only PART of everything then God would have limits... God would be finite and therefore not all powerful. A finite, limited God is not the Christian view of God, now is it?

    You are right... one who believes that God is everything can very easily be atheist, because a God that is everything would simply be another term for something we are all familiar with: reality

    However, this essence of everything has many other names. Atheists call it the Universe or Reality. Taoists call it Tao. NeoDruids call it the Source. Somehow I suspect they are all talking about the same thing and that the differences in definition are minor, at best.

    Corban, I think you may be right. I think Gerani's God may indeed be nothing. However, I also believe that YOUR God may be nothing... and my proof is right there in the Bible!

    "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

    Right there the moment of creation is described, the moment when God first created everything. So what existed before God created everything? Nothing, because if anything existed before God created it, then God is no longer the Creator of everything and therefore is NOT the all-powerful being Christians claim him to be.

    However, this gives us a problem. Logically, the only option here is that before God created everything there was nothing. So... where was God before he created everything? Or, more appropriately, WHAT was God?

    Two options: Either God also did not exist before he created something, or God IS nothing and from that nothingness there came SOMETHING.

    Now lets explore these two options.

    If before creation there was nothing, then there also could not have been any God. That would make your God finite because that which has a beginning also has an end.

    There is, however, that second option. If your God WAS nothing, then he could have existed before he created everything... and he basically created everything out of himself.

    Of course... that last makes me wonder about the gender of your God... if humans were made in God's image and human WOMEN create life out of themselves... well, then what does that say about the gender of the Christian God?

    Of course, this all can only be true if one assumes that the Bible is true... which I personally don't think it is.
     
  18. Master Vigil

    Master Vigil Well-Known Member

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    Runt, I used faith in quotes to show sarcasm, i didn't mean it literally.

    And corban, if the tao is everything, than it can also be nothing for nothing is part of everything. The tao is nothing, it is everything, it is darkness, it is light. And no, it doesn't love because love is only a human emotion and idea which makes it subjective and imperfect.
     
  19. Corban

    Corban Member

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    That's a fascinating way of putting but your logic is based on a false premise and is therefore also false. you use the phrase from the bible "in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth" as proof that before this creation nothing existed. But this is not what i believe because it is not true. The bible is true, people discount it when they don't understand it.

    God did not create the heaven and the earth in the sence that he took of nothing and made something. the word create as translated here comes from a Hebrew word meaning shaped, or fashioned. God "created" the heavens and the earth in the same sense that i just created a lasagna for dinner. The lasagna did not exist before i created it, but the materials of which the lasagna was formed did. The same is true of this earths creation, the heavens and the earth did not exist but the materials of which they are comprised did, you see matter can not be created or destroyed only changed, it has always existed as has God.
     
  20. LCMS Sprecher

    LCMS Sprecher Member

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    What's to say God can't make matter? He is not bound by the physical laws of this world.
     
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