1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Where did you get that from?

Discussion in 'Interfaith Discussion' started by Seeker of White Light, Jan 13, 2022.

  1. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Messages:
    71,894
    Ratings:
    +36,556
    Religion:
    Love/Omnism
    Again, that's true for religion. In the spiritual (experiential) realm, theories that certain practices have known results are tested by following the practices and seeing the result. In other words, experiential theories are tested for predicted experiential results.
     
  2. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

    Joined:
    May 5, 2007
    Messages:
    30,526
    Ratings:
    +14,471
    Religion:
    Atheist, Advaita (Non-duality), Orthodox Hindu
    They study, they experiment. Post graduation, Doctoral all need intense research and experiments. They have to present their theses. When they are at it, they don't worry about food or their looks, or whether it is day or night. Yeah, they are helped by seniors and professors. Nothing comes suddenly, it requires hard work. It is not revealed by an angel.
     
  3. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2018
    Messages:
    13,015
    Ratings:
    +3,659
    Religion:
    The Wrong One
    And here you go and claim that you can test subjectivity? I have tested it subjectively and it makes no sense, because only the objective is subjectively real to me. ;)
     
  4. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2018
    Messages:
    13,015
    Ratings:
    +3,659
    Religion:
    The Wrong One
    Yeah, as long as they understand the demarcation between science and non-science.
     
  5. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

    Joined:
    May 5, 2007
    Messages:
    30,526
    Ratings:
    +14,471
    Religion:
    Atheist, Advaita (Non-duality), Orthodox Hindu
    There is no demarcation in knowledge. True is true and false is false.
     
  6. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2014
    Messages:
    14,308
    Ratings:
    +12,826
    Religion:
    Humanist
    Not sure I understand what you are saying???
    Is that repeatable - could I do that and get the same results.
     
  7. Orbit

    Orbit I'm a planet

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Messages:
    2,531
    Ratings:
    +3,337
    Religion:
    Dinner
    The difference stands; experience can't be falsified. It lies outside of the scientific method.
     
  8. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    29,966
    Ratings:
    +16,368
    Religion:
    Vedanta (reform)
    I'm not sure I follow.
    How do you conduct a spiritual experiment with results discernible to someone other than yourself? How would you submit the experiment for peer review? Could people repeat the experiment and measure the results?
    Finally, if spiritual truths could be discovered by experimentation, why has no common agreement been reached, after all these millennia?
     
  9. Ella S.

    Ella S. Goth Girl

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2021
    Messages:
    895
    Ratings:
    +947
    Religion:
    Stoicism
    Careful. Experimenting on yourself is how we got pretty much all of Spider-Man's villains.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  10. Seeker of White Light

    Seeker of White Light Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Messages:
    25,314
    Ratings:
    +20,658
    Religion:
    Baha'i in training (a lot to learn and understand)
    Oh crap...so thats why my arms become rubber :eek: dang it I knew something wrong happend
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  11. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    29,966
    Ratings:
    +16,368
    Religion:
    Vedanta (reform)
    Wisdom is based on skillful analysis and understanding of facts. Endlessly repeating "a teaching" may make it familiar and habitual, but I don't see how it confers wisdom or understanding.
     
  12. Seeker of White Light

    Seeker of White Light Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Messages:
    25,314
    Ratings:
    +20,658
    Religion:
    Baha'i in training (a lot to learn and understand)
    Oh crap:oops:
     
  13. Ella S.

    Ella S. Goth Girl

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2021
    Messages:
    895
    Ratings:
    +947
    Religion:
    Stoicism
    In Gnosticism, we have Prunikos/Sophia, which is usually directly translated as Wisdom.

    It generally refers more to the specific understanding that we are merely fragments of the One, and so Wisdom is seen as more akin to a sort of detached benevolence than ingenuity.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Messages:
    71,894
    Ratings:
    +36,556
    Religion:
    Love/Omnism
    Yes. But it takes time.
     
  15. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2014
    Messages:
    14,308
    Ratings:
    +12,826
    Religion:
    Humanist
    You don't sound sure; could I do the experiment and repeat it?
     
  16. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2019
    Messages:
    14,235
    Ratings:
    +12,076
    Religion:
    Atheist
    It is different in the sense that what the students learn at uni from the work from scientists that came before them, is not to be "just believed". All of it is independently verifiable. Every experiment repeatable. Every piece of evidence open to repeated study.

    Also, science is progressive. Meaning that new knowledge is build upon already gathered knowledge from before.

    For example... Newton came up with the laws of motion and a model to explain gravity. It worked well in context of medium speeds with medium gravity sources at the macroscopic level of physics.

    Then, building further on that knowledge, we found out it no longer works when approaching light speed or with extreme gravity etc. Enter Einstein. He then comes up with relativity as a fix.

    Then at a later time, some engineer takes relativity theory and figures out a way to build a GPS system - which needs to account for relativistic effects in order to accurately pinpoint locations on the planet (since the satelites orbit the earth at high speed, the flow of time relative to stationary objects on earth is different, so the internal clocks of those satellites need to be calibrated to account for that timeflow difference).

    If relativity were inaccurate, then GPS wouldn't work.
    Likewise, if you try and build GPS satellites without accounting for relativistic effects, then the system doesn't work.


    In summary: it is different because it is very results based AND very independently verifiable.
     
    #36 TagliatelliMonster, Jan 13, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
    • Winner Winner x 2
  17. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    5,446
    Ratings:
    +4,136
    Religion:
    atheist
    Science has a methodology that is universally used by all scientists and results are peer reviewed so there is universal agreement concerning the findings. Scriptures do not have a universal methodology for interpretation, thus every single reader of scriptures can come to a different conclusion and there is no universal method in place for determining who is correct.

    It's the difference between reading the results of an MRI and determining the results of reading the message discerned in a pile of chicken entrails. Any trained doctor will see the same results on an MRI, whereas every spiritualist who reads chicken entrails can come up with a completely different answer.
     
  18. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2013
    Messages:
    21,585
    Ratings:
    +5,626
    Religion:
    Islam
    Science builds on established facts? Not theories? I thought science attempts to explain facts observed in the natural world.

    What are you calling a "fact" here? Give an example of a fact that science "builds on".

    Thanks.
     
  19. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2013
    Messages:
    21,585
    Ratings:
    +5,626
    Religion:
    Islam
    True. Science does have a methodology. It is peer reviewed. But that does not mean it is universally agreed. Thats false.

    There is a trend of scientism. So this worship is there and some people defend it die hard. Then they tend to forget reality and emerge in the transcendence of this religion.
     
  20. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    5,446
    Ratings:
    +4,136
    Religion:
    atheist
    Universal was a bit hyperbolic... but the concept remains the same.
     
Loading...