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Where did the second woman come from??

Breathe

Hostis humani generis
Why? For the capitol gain of the church? I thought we paid taxes to keep churches open,
Where do you think you live? :sarcastic

so why then do they need cash from the congregation?
Rent, food, services, electricity: heating, air conditioning, dehumidifiers, humidifiers, lighting, for cooking, for the kettles, etc; for provisions for the church and church-related activities: feeding the priest and his family, providing snacks and refreshments at the end of services, running Sunday school and supplying it with pens, paper, art products, drinks, juice, buying new toys...

The list goes on.
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
If you follow the bibles account of creation. The Lord created man and woman, and told them to be fruitful and multiply. When it became time for either Cain or Seth to be fruitful and multiply, where did the women come from.
The Bible forbids incest as a sin punishable by death under Levitical law.
The Bible says that Cain went to the land of Nod, with his wife after he slew his brother.
If we are going to consider that Cain or Seth, married their sister, then all of mankind are biologically related in the worse way, my great (times several thousand) grand daddy had sex with his sister.....gross and very hypocritical of a god that makes the sin punishable by death in a few books later.
This is one of the many questions I have about that being you call god, it seems when someone like me a pagan witch asks questions like this to a Christian when they are trying to convert me, they say I have a problem with god, hey what you call god is your business, I just wanna answer to my question. Hang around their will be more....blessed be!!

There were humans on the earth before Adam and Eve but they were more like intelligent animals. Adam and Eve were a type of angel specifically designed for a certain life form, humans. Their mission was to breed children on the earth and their children would eventually interbreed with the primitive humans to blend in their genetics to allow for the primitive human brain to change/evolve so that the soul could make a connection.

Adam and Eve's also had the mission to teach the primitive humans an evolved idea of God and science. The humans instead worshipped Adam and Eve as gods. Eve became frustrated and did not want to wait, her children were still young, so she tried a shortcut, she mated with a human. This was against the divine plan because it instantly increased human brain size and caused great pain during childbirth. The divine plan was a better option if Eve would have just had more patience. Eve lost her immortality because of her departure from the divine plan and thus she became human. Adam chose the same fate as his wife and began to blend in his genetics with the human women. Both Adam and Eve were punished by their own kind, not God. Eve gave birth to Cain who naturally did not get along well with his half brother Able and you know the rest.
 

Barrackubus

Residential Occultist
But I did.read Dr. Zechariah Stichins book called the twelfth planet....who explains this better.than any alledged holy book, that has.too be swallowed hook,line and sinker without a shred of evidence..buddy that's blind leading the blind and everybody.falls into a ditch....thank you jesus....yeah right...i'm.probably married to a very distant cousin or something...
 

crocusj

Active Member
There were humans on the earth before Adam and Eve but they were more like intelligent animals. Adam and Eve were a type of angel specifically designed for a certain life form, humans. Their mission was to breed children on the earth and their children would eventually interbreed with the primitive humans to blend in their genetics to allow for the primitive human brain to change/evolve so that the soul could make a connection.

Adam and Eve's also had the mission to teach the primitive humans an evolved idea of God and science. The humans instead worshipped Adam and Eve as gods. Eve became frustrated and did not want to wait, her children were still young, so she tried a shortcut, she mated with a human. This was against the divine plan because it instantly increased human brain size and caused great pain during childbirth. The divine plan was a better option if Eve would have just had more patience. Eve lost her immortality because of her departure from the divine plan and thus she became human. Adam chose the same fate as his wife and began to blend in his genetics with the human women. Both Adam and Eve were punished by their own kind, not God. Eve gave birth to Cain who naturally did not get along well with his half brother Able and you know the rest.
Or not.
 

Eni Alihm

Member
Now, doesn't all of this help prove just how silly and irrational the Christian bible myths are?
Some groups set Genesis 6,000 years ago . . . which we know is irrational since humans have been around somewhere between 10,000BC to 100,000BC.

We also know that prehistoric man was nothing like the way Adam, Eve, and Lilith were described.
To me it is much more rational to discuss these stories as spiritual allegory and metaphor.

The story of Cain may be a simple metaphor for the conflict between nomadic shepherds and settled farmers. Referring to the time period, in which agriculture (Abel) began to replace the ways of the hunter-gatherer (Cain).

The eating of the Forbidden Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is a metaphor in that this encounter of Eve and the Serpent, the consumption of the fruit is that of the Prince of Darkness, then known as Belial, planting the seed in Eve with what will be her first child, Cain.

For Belial knew that in order to save Mankind from the chains of this jealous and violent god, that Man must possess the Gnosis enabling Him towards Apotheosis "then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods," (GEN 3:5)

Yet furthermore, Cain was not the son of Adam. Eve conceived her first son with the Serpent, Lucifer. Cain was not born from flesh. His Spiritual nature was great because his father was Lucifer. On the other hand, Abel was the son of Adam and Eve, in other words, Abel was indeed born from flesh.

Abel would be the ‘natural' child of Adam with Eve, hence the sibling rivalry between Cain and Abel. Furthermore, the reasoning behind God not accepting Cain's equally good sacrificial offering of the Earth (Belial) and His acceptance of Abel's blood sacrifice.

We can now see the first difference between the two brothers: Cain is superior to Abel. Cain is the son of Eve and Lucifer, the initiatory Serpent of Eden. Cain is the son of the Spirit and of flesh. Abel, on the contrary, is born only from flesh. Therefore we can see first of all that Cain is not someone evil but that in fact he is superior, important, and much more so than Abel.

Cain didn't like to offer sacrifices to the Creator because of his roots, because he was the son of Lucifer and had the divine spark of the Angel of Light within him. That is why he did not make suitable sacrifices to the Creator and why it disgusted him to do so since he did not belong to this created world. Abel, on the other hand, whose nature was not of the Spirit but of an animal, did make suitable sacrifices and these were the ones which most pleased the Creator.

Cain as much as Abel made sacrifices to the creator god to please him, offering him things that would appease Him. Cain offered vegetables and Abel animals. According to the bible the creator God preferred the latter. The bible says that the Creator was pleased by Abel's sacrifices but not by Cain's. It appeared that Cain had little desire to please the Creator since he only offered him a few seeds and with little devotion, as if he wasn't entirely convinced of the usefulness of making sacrifices. Naturally then, Abel's sacrifices were accepted by the Creator and Cain's weren't.

Abel would be the ‘natural' child of Adam with Eve, hence the sibling rivalry between Cain and Abel. Furthermore, the reasoning behind God not accepting Cain's equally good sacrificial offering of the Earth (Belial) and His acceptance of Abel's blood sacrifice.

For this Cain would take the life of Abel in defiance of God, and set himself apart from all of God and his Creation, to walk in isolation that of his own Path, the Left Hand Path.

And in hindsight, God wrought with guilt over instigating Abel's death, grants Cain amnesty.
In time Cain and his wife gave birth to Enoch and Created the city of Enoch all its inhabitants. Again, we see the metaphor for the Left Hand Path, of separating from God's Will and Creation and embracing Our Will and designing our own Creation (City of Enoch).
 

Man of Faith

Well-Known Member
It was customary back in Biblical days that the female babies weren't mentioned. We see some of that still today, women have had to fight for their rights and recognition. However we see in Genesis 5:4 it says that Adam and Eve had many sons and daughters, yet none of the daughters were mentioned by name. And incest wasn’t against God’s plan until much later, after sin had taken hold and caused birth deficiencies.

If someone was going to write a story to fool and trick people, wouldn’t we think that they wouldn’t make such glaring errors? The name of Eve means life in Greek, and we see in Genesis 3:20 that Adam gave her that name because she was the mother of all the living. The Bible doesn’t support any people before Adam and Eve.
 

jasonwill2

Well-Known Member
From the lillith loving and respecting pagan groups, Silver Ravenwolf repeats a wonderful account in her books.
Ive heard the Sumarian accounts, transliterated by Dr. Zecariah Stichin....
And lastly, in the 13 principles of Wiccan Belief.....it states we are not concerned with our past but our now and our future, which basically says its not to worry about because I'm here now and it doesnt make to much sense to figure out exactly why fully because I am.here now!!

What Wiccan branch is that? There is no orthodoxy in Wicca so I don't know what principles you are talking about.

Or ... that Yahweh is an insane entity, and this total ****-up is what was intended.

Take your pick.

Insane gods are always the most entertaining and have the most fun :p Maybe this is just a game to him?

A cosmological theory holding that the universe originated approximately 20 billion years ago from the violent explosion of a very small agglomeration of matter of extremely high density and temperature.

You didn't get anything right here for the most part. It was actually 14 billion years ago, and it wasn't an explosion. However it was hot and very dense immediately afterwards, but things cooled down relatively quickly.

Now, doesn't all of this help prove just how silly and irrational the Christian bible myths are?
Some groups set Genesis 6,000 years ago . . . which we know is irrational since humans have been around somewhere between 10,000BC to 100,000BC.

We also know that prehistoric man was nothing like the way Adam, Eve, and Lilith were described.
To me it is much more rational to discuss these stories as spiritual allegory and metaphor.

The story of Cain may be a simple metaphor for the conflict between nomadic shepherds and settled farmers. Referring to the time period, in which agriculture (Abel) began to replace the ways of the hunter-gatherer (Cain).

The eating of the Forbidden Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is a metaphor in that this encounter of Eve and the Serpent, the consumption of the fruit is that of the Prince of Darkness, then known as Belial, planting the seed in Eve with what will be her first child, Cain.

For Belial knew that in order to save Mankind from the chains of this jealous and violent god, that Man must possess the Gnosis enabling Him towards Apotheosis "then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods," (GEN 3:5)

Yet furthermore, Cain was not the son of Adam. Eve conceived her first son with the Serpent, Lucifer. Cain was not born from flesh. His Spiritual nature was great because his father was Lucifer. On the other hand, Abel was the son of Adam and Eve, in other words, Abel was indeed born from flesh.

Abel would be the ‘natural' child of Adam with Eve, hence the sibling rivalry between Cain and Abel. Furthermore, the reasoning behind God not accepting Cain's equally good sacrificial offering of the Earth (Belial) and His acceptance of Abel's blood sacrifice.

We can now see the first difference between the two brothers: Cain is superior to Abel. Cain is the son of Eve and Lucifer, the initiatory Serpent of Eden. Cain is the son of the Spirit and of flesh. Abel, on the contrary, is born only from flesh. Therefore we can see first of all that Cain is not someone evil but that in fact he is superior, important, and much more so than Abel.

Cain didn't like to offer sacrifices to the Creator because of his roots, because he was the son of Lucifer and had the divine spark of the Angel of Light within him. That is why he did not make suitable sacrifices to the Creator and why it disgusted him to do so since he did not belong to this created world. Abel, on the other hand, whose nature was not of the Spirit but of an animal, did make suitable sacrifices and these were the ones which most pleased the Creator.

Cain as much as Abel made sacrifices to the creator god to please him, offering him things that would appease Him. Cain offered vegetables and Abel animals. According to the bible the creator God preferred the latter. The bible says that the Creator was pleased by Abel's sacrifices but not by Cain's. It appeared that Cain had little desire to please the Creator since he only offered him a few seeds and with little devotion, as if he wasn't entirely convinced of the usefulness of making sacrifices. Naturally then, Abel's sacrifices were accepted by the Creator and Cain's weren't.

Abel would be the ‘natural' child of Adam with Eve, hence the sibling rivalry between Cain and Abel. Furthermore, the reasoning behind God not accepting Cain's equally good sacrificial offering of the Earth (Belial) and His acceptance of Abel's blood sacrifice.

For this Cain would take the life of Abel in defiance of God, and set himself apart from all of God and his Creation, to walk in isolation that of his own Path, the Left Hand Path.

And in hindsight, God wrought with guilt over instigating Abel's death, grants Cain amnesty.
In time Cain and his wife gave birth to Enoch and Created the city of Enoch all its inhabitants. Again, we see the metaphor for the Left Hand Path, of separating from God's Will and Creation and embracing Our Will and designing our own Creation (City of Enoch).

:clap While I must applaud this detailed answer, I am fairly skeptical about how accurate this interpretation might be in light of historical interpretations of the ancient cultures in question. For example I've never heard that Cain walked the Left Hand Path or that his father was the serpent. Is this part of ancient or medieval writings, or is it a more recent adaptation? Not that anything is wrong with modern adaptations mind you :D
 

jasonwill2

Well-Known Member
It was customary back in Biblical days that the female babies weren't mentioned. We see some of that still today, women have had to fight for their rights and recognition. However we see in Genesis 5:4 it says that Adam and Eve had many sons and daughters, yet none of the daughters were mentioned by name. And incest wasn’t against God’s plan until much later, after sin had taken hold and caused birth deficiencies.

If someone was going to write a story to fool and trick people, wouldn’t we think that they wouldn’t make such glaring errors? The name of Eve means life in Greek, and we see in Genesis 3:20 that Adam gave her that name because she was the mother of all the living. The Bible doesn’t support any people before Adam and Eve.

Yet at the same time talking snakes? Seriously? The Christian creation myth reads more like a fable or an allegory than anything else. I do not think that it was intended to be literal.
 

Eni Alihm

Member
:clap While I must applaud this detailed answer, I am fairly skeptical about how accurate this interpretation might be in light of historical interpretations of the ancient cultures in question. For example I've never heard that Cain walked the Left Hand Path or that his father was the serpent. Is this part of ancient or medieval writings, or is it a more recent adaptation? Not that anything is wrong with modern adaptations mind you :D
Among Luciferians and modern LHP'ers this is accepted mythology, whether you find this relevant or not is your paradigm. Accuracy is nothing more than stuffing the idea down the public's throat repeatedly, something the Abrahamic religions are quite adept at.
 

Man of Faith

Well-Known Member
Yet at the same time talking snakes? Seriously? The Christian creation myth reads more like a fable or an allegory than anything else. I do not think that it was intended to be literal.

Again, if the authors were trying to make something up, we would have to assume that they would try to make it believable, or not had that many specifics. So either it wasn't true but they believed it to be true, or it was true and it did happen.
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
If I were to take the creation story literally, I would say Cain married his sister. But since I don't, the point is moot. :)
 

Barrackubus

Residential Occultist
I am just implying that xtians swallow this without even a forthought of having differing questions. For the record I am LHP as well, Thelema is the teachings I am.studying at the moment. I also have studied and will.continue to study Luciferism, Go Michael Ford...
I think in scriptural context that serpent was a discription of his character, not a literal snake. And thjs isn't the first time I heard it theorized and specultated that Cain was the son of the devil. William Branham in the sixties preached a sermon.named the serpent seed in which he proves by the bible, according to his understanding that Cain was the son of Satan. With that said he married his half sister then if we follow the biblical account of creation.
Even though this god, as it was said, outlawed incest much later on, it doesnt take away from the fact that the damage to mankind has been done. And plus it was easy to outlaw, sense at that time you had many generations of inbreds running around, sure we got enough people, I guess we can give the appearance that they arent marrying their cousins and what not....too late the DNA had already been mingled beyond repair...
The bible says god doesn't change, well right there he changed so.he lied, given enough time he.might renig on that death at the cross thing too.....such a mind *****.... Talk.about bad parenting, you let your kids inner breed and then take.it away later on....
 

kylixguru

Well-Known Member
If you follow the bibles account of creation. The Lord created man and woman, and told them to be fruitful and multiply. When it became time for either Cain or Seth to be fruitful and multiply, where did the women come from.
The account of creation is actually dealing with things on a spiritual level. And, since to most people that isn't a very well defined term, I'll tell you what that specifically means to me in explicit terms that aren't nebulous.

A spiritual being, such as Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel, Seth, etc. were, is also referred to as a body of "flesh and bone". This is defined to be a gathering of people together who have a common objective and they organize themselves into a distinct body. Think of it as a society. For example, the Roman Empire was a flesh and bone body.

So, when you look at Adam as a distinct society of some kind, then you can start to penetrate what the creation narrative is really conveying. When it says Eve was "bone of Adam's bone" and "flesh of Adam's flesh" it simply meant that some individuals were members of both Adam's society and Eve's society. You could call the Boy Scouts of America a body of flesh and bone. You can call the Baptists or the Methodists bodies of flesh and bone, and so on. You can be members of many bodies of flesh and bone at the same time.

So, if you want to be able to see Adam and Eve for who they truly are, you need to identify them as societies that are very closely linked and intertwined. In a nutshell, they are a body of priesthood authority and a church who function at the highest level of spiritual glory God has ordained to be expressed on this planet. In comparison to them, Christianity is like "fishes" and it isn't a coincidence that they refer to themselves as such.

However, these societies get pretty messed up and become fallen and they are barely recognizable, but you could still figure out what is what if you look hard enough. They are here right now since we are at the juncture in the repeating cycle of things that a new creation is being birthed.

Anyway, so the rules for sexual reproduction of flesh and bone bodies works a bit differently than it does in flesh and blood. I'll try and explain it in unambiguous terms so that a non-religious person can grasp it.

Think of human beings as the raw materials from which Adam, Eve, etc. were created. Humans are the flecks of dust from which Adam was formed. The manner in which this took place is an entity of spiritual power (aka information) became organized within the mind of a human in such a way that you could say he had a "bright idea". This idea greatly excited him as he believed it had great potential and he began sharing that idea with others. He participated in discourse. When others liked his idea they got excited too and they shared it and others joined in. All those who rallied together around that idea became a distinct society and they defined "life" as those who were favorable to the idea and supported it and "death" as those who rejected the idea and fought against it. So, according to their terminology, they were the first "living" Man, the inventors and patent holders of a brilliant new idea. I won't go into the details of it, but part of the nature of this "idea" consisted of the ability to embed within themselves genetic encoding that would more or less assure that their posterity would perform given roles and functions in order to implement their "bright idea". Thus, this only pertained to their actual physical posterity, meaning those who were children of the members of the body of the Adam society. The seeds of eternal life were literally their altered genetics that carried the DNA programming they infused into things so that their "idea" could be carried out. Now, in order for this to work, they needed to have things balanced out between "good" and "evil" so there was also a genetic program for the "forbidden seed" as well. This "idea" includes managing both sides of things. So, the whole illusion of adversarial roles is no more of an issue for them than two partners sharing a beautiful dance they both enjoy immensely. But, for all of the other humans oblivious to all of this are more or less just the dust specks that are pretty much helplessly engulfed by this. That which organized and empowered Adam is to humans like humans are to flecks of dust. So, when Eve came into the scene she produced two sons. One of the "good" seed and one of the "evil" seed so that there would be the two lineages established to carry out the "idea". Remember, each lineage carries DNA programming that makes us vehicles to carry out their "idea". While Cain was literally of Adam's seed, he succumbed to hearken unto the Serpent and became married to one of the Serpent's daughters. Thus, Cain is the carrier of the "forbidden" or "evil" seed and Abel is the carrier of the "good" seed. However, because he was murdered, Seth was conceived in order to be his brother's "kinsman redeemer" (see the levirite marriage law) and raised up seed to his deceased brother Abel. Now, bear in mind, these are flesh and bone beings, but the implications are that we aren't necessitating physical flesh and blood individuals participating in incestuous relations. So, Adam and Eve did have other daughters as well, which could be likened to societies like a church (feminine). And, if you think about it, if Eve was bone of Adam's bone and flesh of Adam's flesh, this was very much like asexual reproduction.

Anyway, I realize I probably carried on a bit long here to make a fairly simple point that we aren't talking about incestuous intercourse via physical copulation between siblings, but rather as discourse via spiritual conversation among the masses of humanity that are aware of it just about as much as the carbon elements in our bodies are aware of their function in such.

The Bible forbids incest as a sin punishable by death under Levitical law.
The Bible says that Cain went to the land of Nod, with his wife after he slew his brother.
If we are going to consider that Cain or Seth, married their sister, then all of mankind are biologically related in the worse way, my great (times several thousand) grand daddy had sex with his sister.....gross and very hypocritical of a god that makes the sin punishable by death in a few books later.
This is one of the many questions I have about that being you call god, it seems when someone like me a pagan witch asks questions like this to a Christian when they are trying to convert me, they say I have a problem with god, hey what you call god is your business, I just wanna answer to my question. Hang around their will be more....blessed be!!
I find your questions quite good, keep them coming.
 
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jasonwill2

Well-Known Member
Among Luciferians and modern LHP'ers this is accepted mythology, whether you find this relevant or not is your paradigm. Accuracy is nothing more than stuffing the idea down the public's throat repeatedly, something the Abrahamic religions are quite adept at.

Well I'm not really into the Luciferian scene that much, I can barely stand the pretentiousness of a number of corners in the satanic scene as well and I can't imagine it being any different in the Luciferian one in general elitisms. As for what you said about accuracy, I agree if you claim accuracy as in "truth". All religious systems are best guesses, none is "the truth". However I do not* add information to other religious texts even if they contribute to my beliefs. I would rather make my own mythos then to add to and completely pervert another mythos. So for me I create my own mythos for "Satan" (and have created my own "best guess" as well which has changed somewhat over time and is subject to checks such as logic for spotting and removing contradictions and other things), and for say a god like Lilith I just assume enough of it's true to a point, specifically that she is a goddess of aggressive sexuality that is some how the head of or the creator of succubi and inccubi. I can't buy the part about her being Adam's wife though.

Again, if the authors were trying to make something up, we would have to assume that they would try to make it believable, or not had that many specifics. So either it wasn't true but they believed it to be true, or it was true and it did happen.

I didn't say that they were making it up, I said that it obviously wasn't literal. Have you ever seen a talking snake? I haven't. The fact that Eve didn't react with "a talking snake?!" indicates that it wasn't literal.

Unless you think a fully developed human brain is stupid enough to think that snakes can talk. Hell if it's literal that also means that snake's legs were taken away for punishment of what the devil in the form of a snake did... how is that even fair?
 
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Man of Faith

Well-Known Member
I didn't say that they were making it up, I said that it obviously wasn't literal. Have you ever seen a talking snake? I haven't. The fact that Eve didn't react with "a talking snake?!" indicates that it wasn't literal.

Unless you think a fully developed human brain is stupid enough to think that snakes can talk. Hell if it's literal that also means that snake's legs were taken away for punishment of what the devil in the form of a snake did... how is that even fair?

There is no reason to believe it not to be literal or not meant to be literal. It reads as a literal story. If I was the first human and in a garden of pleasure, I might not know that animals can't talk, or it might not seem that surprising. There was a spirit talking to them already, God.
 

Eni Alihm

Member
Spoken like a true Chaote and well within the Luciferian Light! I'm proud if ya So(u)n!

Well I'm not really into the Luciferian scene that much, I can barely stand the pretentiousness of a number of corners in the satanic scene as well and I can't imagine it being any different in the Luciferian one in general elitisms. As for what you said about accuracy, I agree if you claim accuracy as in "truth". All religious systems are best guesses, none is "the truth". However I do add information to other religious texts even if they contribute to my beliefs. I would rather make my own mythos then to add to and completely pervert another mythos. So for me I create my own mythos for "Satan" (and have created my own "best guess" as well which has changed somewhat over time and is subject to checks such as logic for spotting and removing contradictions and other things), and for say a god like Lilith I just assume enough of it's true to a point, specifically that she is a goddess of aggressive sexuality that is some how the head of or the creator of succubi and inccubi. I can't buy the part about her being Adam's wife though.
 

Barrackubus

Residential Occultist
Quote:Originally Posted by*Man of Faith*View Post It was customary back in Biblical days that the female babies weren't mentioned. We see some of that still today, women have had to fight for their rights and recognition. However we see in Genesis 5:4 it says that Adam and Eve had many sons and daughters, yet none of the daughters were mentioned by name. And incest wasn’t against God’s plan until much later, after sin had taken hold and caused birth deficiencies.

Don't you think a god who created people would know that incest would cause problems and birth deficiencies as you put it, and since you gave him credit of recognizing that then, the deficiencies still continue, but he blames that on our sin now. It's not like since he commanded it to cease that it would magickally change the DNA and cure us from the very thing he caused.
Sin doesn't exsist, sorry there is no such thing, and if it did hell would certianly be punishment enough.no reason to make individual exsistences health damaging because of human behavior that could be the result of inbreeding. If this were the case their are alot of big sinners that are in perfect health, i'm sure alot worse than the kid who.steals.a piece of.candy.and ends up with sickle cell. When Hitler.killed millions and lived til he took his own life. Why couldn't have that bipolar god stopped.him after a dozen or so with cancer or someother god judging disease.
Also when I was a fundelmentalist baptist, then pentecostal the account of creation was taught to be taken literally, not as an allegory as one poster suggested, we were taught it was as it is written, i'm just following the logic of the ******** I was taught in sunday school and vacation bible school etc.
 

Barrackubus

Residential Occultist
And just because women births werent mentioned doesnt get us away from the incest question, why is.that even an issue, anybody who read and studied biblical writings can observe that, is that because woken are scripturally taught to be treated like second class citizens....
 
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