Where did our moral systems come from?

[charles brough]

Legal codes and doctrinal-moral systems were developed several thousand years before the Old Testament was developed, so how could anyone credit morals to the Bible? Even the Ten Commandments evolved from Babylonian commandments, such as those of Hammurabi. Indeed, most of the Biblical commandments involved measuring and ceremonial rules or laws (some 600 of them!)

Moral laws evolved as an ideological means by which a society could most efficiently achieve its goals (the means to the goals), and each society is based on an ideology that has goals. Christian goals involve reaching "Heaven" by being "rightous" as well as faithful. Our secular system goal is "the pursuit of happiness" and "the American Dream." (The latter set of goals tells you something about why our society is sinking!)

Even so, humanity has always been "moral" because we evolved as small group social beings who have innate social behavioral relationships that forus each member towards supporting the group. In other words, we evolved moral.

Remember, Biblical lore is that after "Creation" we "fell" and "lapsed into sin." That is, that we have to have New Testament sayings and old Commandments in order to "save us." Isn't that a degrading and insulting view of us? A more accurate view would be that by evolving we managed to ascend above all the other animals and take command of the Earth.

Now we need to take care of it.

 

[Falvlun]

A more accurate view would be that by evolving we managed to ascend above all the other animals and take command of the Earth.

Now we need to take care of it.

Personally, I believe we can best take care of the Earth by relinquishing this silly idea that we have "command" over it.

Genesis 1:28 "God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

One of the more harmful commandments, and one that has taken a hold of our collective minds, even if we don't consider ourselves to be religious.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As for the rest of your OP, I agree with most of it. The inclination to certain "moral" behaviors likely evolved as it benefitted humans to be able to work together in cohesive units. Complex morals, and their details, developed as language allowed us to transmit concepts to the next generation (without the need for it to be encoded in our genes). Culture, and the development of religion, helped reinforce and reinvent these.

Francis Collins in his book "the Language of God" cited the existence of morality as the single most persuasive evidence as to the existence of God, and I just don't see why he and others find the development of moral systems to be so impossible.

 

[michel]

Legal codes and doctrinal-moral systems were developed several thousand years before the Old Testament was developed, so how could anyone credit morals to the Bible? Even the Ten Commandments evolved from Babylonian commandments, such as those of Hammurabi. Indeed, most of the Biblical commandments involved measuring and ceremonial rules or laws (some 600 of them!)

Moral laws evolved as an ideological means by which a society could most efficiently achieve its goals (the means to the goals), and each society is based on an ideology that has goals. Christian goals involve reaching "Heaven" by being "rightous" as well as faithful. Our secular system goal is "the pursuit of happiness" and "the American Dream." (The latter set of goals tells you something about why our society is sinking!)

Even so, humanity has always been "moral" because we evolved as small group social beings who have innate social behavioral relationships that forus each member towards supporting the group. In other words, we evolved moral.

Remember, Biblical lore is that after "Creation" we "fell" and "lapsed into sin." That is, that we have to have New Testament sayings and old Commandments in order to "save us." Isn't that a degrading and insulting view of us? A more accurate view would be that by evolving we managed to ascend above all the other animals and take command of the Earth.

Now we need to take care of it.

I tend to agree; most groups of people (as far as I am concerned) would "create" a set of morals - if only for the sake of their own individual protection, and those of their possessions...........

 

[Sunstone]

Morals have their ultimate roots in our genes.

 

[ChristineES]

It started out as a necessity. Each person had a purpose and was hard to replace. Then we just passed them down and changed them somewhat to fit our needs. "the fall from grace" spoken about in various religious lore, is probably a loss of innocence. "The fruit" in the Genesis story, for example, could mean the beginning of this loss of innocence. All this is pure speculation, however, as we really have no way of knowing any of this.

 

[Breathe]

Empathy, necessity, and the human spirit of co-operation and disliking of conflict when it can be avoided for the basic ones.

Acquired cultural values for "lesser" things. Another important one is cleanliness and avoiding what are seen as impurities.

My $0.02.

 

[Dan4reason]

Legal codes and doctrinal-moral systems were developed several thousand years before the Old Testament was developed, so how could anyone credit morals to the Bible? Even the Ten Commandments evolved from Babylonian commandments, such as those of Hammurabi. Indeed, most of the Biblical commandments involved measuring and ceremonial rules or laws (some 600 of them!)

Moral laws evolved as an ideological means by which a society could most efficiently achieve its goals (the means to the goals), and each society is based on an ideology that has goals. Christian goals involve reaching "Heaven" by being "rightous" as well as faithful. Our secular system goal is "the pursuit of happiness" and "the American Dream." (The latter set of goals tells you something about why our society is sinking!)

Even so, humanity has always been "moral" because we evolved as small group social beings who have innate social behavioral relationships that forus each member towards supporting the group. In other words, we evolved moral.

Remember, Biblical lore is that after "Creation" we "fell" and "lapsed into sin." That is, that we have to have New Testament sayings and old Commandments in order to "save us." Isn't that a degrading and insulting view of us? A more accurate view would be that by evolving we managed to ascend above all the other animals and take command of the Earth.

Now we need to take care of it.

They came from the fact that we have emotions and will feel some things to be better than another.

 

[Falvlun]

They came from the fact that we have emotions and will feel some things to be better than another.

(Just to play devil's advocate) Why do we feel that this set of things are good and this other set of things are bad? We could have easily felt that murdering our brothers was satisfying, instead of finding it repulsive. So why the one and not the other?

 

[Me Myself]

My moral system came from myself.

Looking at life and different scenarios and thinking a lot about a lot of things, I´ve decided that no dogma can contain "moral" in a way that is perfectly aplicable in every situation to the benfits of most of the people involved. So I have only one commandment:

"I´ll do everything that I feel it is the correct thing to do in each moment and avoid doing what I feel is incorrect in each moment"

While most dogma-needer would think this is a recipee for disasters, I very well know that I´ve used it and succeed with it for a good time, and I trusty God within me enough for me to feel what needs to be done in each scenario regardless of desires.

So I am happy

edit: Ah!, more like a pattern, but generaly I am disgusted by the idea of lying so I almost never lie, no matter the situation ecceptin being if I must lie in order to keep some friend´s secret.

 

[Random]

The advent of Private Property law had a lot to do with it.

 

[charles brough]

They (morals) came from the fact that we have emotions and will feel some things to be better than another.

Yes, we have innate social behavioral patterns ("emotions") that were essential to the survival of the hunting/gathering groups we evoved as. Behaviorists have for example observed that chimps that do favors for other chimps in the group expect the other to reciprocate. If the other does not, the chimp may strike it. This is socal group behavior and our basis for a sense of justice. We want the miscrenat to be punished. To know what has to be violated to deserve punishment in our modern world does take laws and codes.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Moral behaviors had some kind of survival advantage, so genes which expressed such behaviors were more like to survive and be passed on.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Morals come from wherever opinions come from.

 

[otokage007]

Moral systems come even before Homo sapiens. A cat or a dog won't usually do to others what it don't like the others to do to it. That's the basics of morality and arises from personal experience in every superior animal.

 

[Penumbra]

(Just to play devil's advocate) Why do we feel that this set of things are good and this other set of things are bad? We could have easily felt that murdering our brothers was satisfying, instead of finding it repulsive. So why the one and not the other?

A society that in general finds that it's satisfying to murder their siblings is a society that isn't going to last long. It may work for some animals, for but highly social animals, this isn't likely to build a robust society.

Certain moral systems are objectively better for survival in a given environment than others.

 

[waitasec]

Legal codes and doctrinal-moral systems were developed several thousand years before the Old Testament was developed, so how could anyone credit morals to the Bible? Even the Ten Commandments evolved from Babylonian commandments, such as those of Hammurabi. Indeed, most of the Biblical commandments involved measuring and ceremonial rules or laws (some 600 of them!)

Moral laws evolved as an ideological means by which a society could most efficiently achieve its goals (the means to the goals), and each society is based on an ideology that has goals. Christian goals involve reaching "Heaven" by being "rightous" as well as faithful. Our secular system goal is "the pursuit of happiness" and "the American Dream." (The latter set of goals tells you something about why our society is sinking!)

:yes:

Even so, humanity has always been "moral" because we evolved as small group social beings who have innate social behavioral relationships that forus each member towards supporting the group. In other words, we evolved moral.

Remember, Biblical lore is that after "Creation" we "fell" and "lapsed into sin." That is, that we have to have New Testament sayings and old Commandments in order to "save us." Isn't that a degrading and insulting view of us? A more accurate view would be that by evolving we managed to ascend above all the other animals and take command of the Earth.

Now we need to take care of it.

some counter act the degrading and insulting view by believing they are the reason everything exists in the 1st place....
go figure.

 

[Falvlun]

A society that in general finds that it's satisfying to murder their siblings is a society that isn't going to last long. It may work for some animals, for but highly social animals, this isn't likely to build a robust society.

Certain moral systems are objectively better for survival in a given environment than others.

I agree. Mostly just wanted to point out that our feelings about what is right and wrong are an effect of our moral underpinnings, and not their cause. When you claim that it is simply our feelings that created our moral system, you leave the question open as to where those feelings came from. And many people are more than happy to plug God into that slot.

 

[charles brough]

They came from the fact that we have emotions and will feel some things to be better than another.

Yes, our emotions evolved in a way that serves the group.

 

[charles brough]

:yes:


some counter act the degrading and insulting view by believing they are the reason everything exists in the 1st place....
go figure.

Yes, we dominate the planet because we struggled until we earned it, not because it was given to us by some imaginary being.

 

[charles brough]

I agree. Mostly just wanted to point out that our feelings about what is right and wrong are an effect of our moral underpinnings, and not their cause. When you claim that it is simply our feelings that created our moral system, you leave the question open as to where those feelings came from. And many people are more than happy to plug God into that slot.

Exactly:shout