1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Where Christianity and Buddhism Agree?

Discussion in 'Interfaith Discussion' started by Buddha Dharma, Jan 30, 2018.

  1. Vouthon

    Vouthon In varietate concordia
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,343
    Ratings:
    +1,998
    Religion:
    Catholic Christianity
    Not in its original language or entirety, obviously, but yes - in English translation I have read a number of texts comprising the Sutta Pitaka. This began with Khuddaka Nikaya: namely the short poetic work, The Dhammapada, in my early teens followed by the Udana and the Sutta Nipata in my late teens and early twenties. I then dipped my feet, proverbially speaking, into a few of the discourses - but although I enjoyed many parts that I read, I'm more of a sucker for the poetic works, as they have a sharpness and concise profundity which reminds me more of the mystics of my own tradition and the Sufi Muslims (with whom I'm very familiar, particularly the Persians).

    I'm not as well acquainted with the Mahayana Sutras, admittedly, although I have read books before on the Zen Buddhist and Vajrayana traditions.
     
    #181 Vouthon, Feb 6, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
    • Like Like x 3
  2. crossfire

    crossfire Antinomian feminist heretic freak ☿
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Messages:
    10,449
    Ratings:
    +3,531
    Religion:
    ☿ Mercuræn Buddhist & Ordained Pastafarian
    Comparing the Christian concept of Trinity with Buddhism's Trikaya would also be worthwhile, imo.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. crossfire

    crossfire Antinomian feminist heretic freak ☿
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Messages:
    10,449
    Ratings:
    +3,531
    Religion:
    ☿ Mercuræn Buddhist & Ordained Pastafarian
    For those who are not afraid: perhaps comparing the Eucharist with the Chod practice of "feeding your demons" might also be fruitful.
     
  4. Vouthon

    Vouthon In varietate concordia
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,343
    Ratings:
    +1,998
    Religion:
    Catholic Christianity
    Yes, those were the verses I had in mind. I just couldn't recall their specific location in the Tripitaka.

    The notion that once the mind is freed from "incoming defilments" one becomes aware of its inherent luminosity, always struck me as perhaps being a Pali canon-cognate of the Mahayana doctrine of Buddha-nature.

    From my limited forays into Tibetan Buddhism, I became aware of an interpretation of this luminosity of mind doctrine which described it in terms of a primordial "Ground", "essence" or "nature" identified with tathagatagarbha (Buddha-nature) and which is characterized by "emptiness" and "clarity".

    Obviously, this takes it far away from any conservative Therevadin understanding but in this articulation it sounds strangely familiar to someone like myself, who has a longstanding background in the Catholic contemplative tradition.

    The fundamental issue for Abba Evagrius (345-399 AD), the first hesychast, and the Desert Fathers was "clear thinking" or "clear sight" of the image of God within one's heart, untainted by the obscuration of the passions and logismoi (disturbing thoughts) - the kind of passionate, wild thoughts that distract our attention and scatter the focus of the mind away from God. The Desert Fathers called this 'apatheia' which means a state of imperturbable calm. If this state of mind was achieved, this apatheia, the monks believed that they could understand God's purpose "undistorted" and attain union with Him.

    The early ascetics identified this state with Jesus' teaching about the the kingdom of God, as Abba Evagrius explained:


    "...The Kingdom of Heaven is apatheia [imperturbable calm, dispassion] of the soul along with true knowledge of existing things.

    The proof of apatheia is had when the spirit begins to see its own light, when it remains in a state of tranquillity in the presence of the images it has during sleep, and when it maintains its calm as it beholds the affairs of life.

    The spirit that possesses health is the one which has no images of the things of the world at the time of prayer.

    The ascetic life is the spiritual method for cleansing [the mind]
    ..."

    - Abba Evagrius Ponticus (345-399 AD), Early Desert Father


    Yes, you read that: the proof that one has apprehended the Kingdom of God within oneself, and found this dispassionate state of imperturbable calm without any images mediated through sense-perceptions or impressions coming in from outside, is had "when the spirit begins to see its own light".

    The true nature of the mind is described as "luminous" like sapphire when freed of incoming defilements (that is attachment to sense-impressions and mental images). Abbas Evagrius again:


    "...If one wishes to see the state (katastasis) of the mind, let him deprive himself of all representations, and then he will see the mind appear similar to sapphire or to the color of the sky. But to do that without being passionless (apatheia) is impossible...The mind would not see itself unless it has been raised higher than all the representations of objects...

    Apatheia (passionlessness) is a quiet state of the rational soul. It results from gentleness and self-control...

    A man in chains cannot run. Nor can the mind that is enslaved to passion see the place of spiritual prayer. It is dragged along and tossed by these passion-filled thoughts and cannot stand firm and tranquil...

    The ascetical mind is one that always receives passionlessly the representations of this world...The state of the mind is an intellectual peak, comparable in color to the sky. Onto it, there comes, at the time of prayer, the light of the holy Trinity
    ..."

    - Abba Evagrius Ponticus (345-399 AD), early desert father


    As you can see from the date, this is an extremely ancient teaching at the heart of the Christian contemplative tradition, that would undergo significant further development in the Eastern Orthodox Hesychast and Catholic mystical traditions. Saint John Cassian ( c. 360 – 435 AD), the founder of Western monasticism, was a disciple of Abba Evagrius and his works (Coenobitical Institutions and the Conferences) represent a transmittal of Evagrius Ponticus' ascetical doctrines to the West. These works formed the basis of much of the spirituality of the Order of Saint Benedict and its offshoots.

    In the medieval mystical tradition of the Catholic Church, this concept of the "sapphire light of the dispassionate mind" was embellished further by our monks, friars and mystics into the idea that the mind was a dual phenomenon: with a lower seat rooted in the imagination and emotions, and the intellect; while above this (or below it, if you like) was the "apex", "ground" and "essence" of the soul, wherein contemplative prayer takes place, and union with God.

    As the Benedictine monk Dom Cuthbert Butler explained in his 1922 book, Western Mysticism (p.140):


    Western Mysticism


    It is a common teaching of mystic writers that introversion is effected by a successive silencing of the faculties of the mind and of the powers of the soul, till the actuations become blind elevations to God; and in the 'Quiet' thus produced, the very being of the soul the "Ground of the Spirit', the later mystics call it comes into immediate relation with the Ultimate Reality which is God.

    This at least will be held by all who regard the mind as something other than a bundle of sensations, phantasmata, emotions, cognitions, volitions. This essence of the soul, the soul itself, is what the mystics mean when they speak of the centre of the soul, or its apex, or ground, or the fund of the spirit, or the synteresis. 2 It has been called also in modern terminology the core of personality, and the transcendental self.

    For the Catholic mystics it is this essence of the soul that enters into union with God. This we learned from Pope St Gregory the Great: he says that the mind must first clear itself of all sense perceptions and of all images of things bodily and spiritual, so that it may be able to find and consider itself as it is in itself, i.e., its essence; and then, by means of this realization of itself thus stript of all, it rises to the contemplation of God

    At the end of his Book of Spiritual Instruction Abbot Louis de Blois, O.S.B., (1506 – 1566), a Flemish monk and mystical writer, sets forth at some length the doctrine of the Catholic mystics on this hidden essence of the soul/mind:


    Few rise above their natural powers; few ever come to know the
    apex of the spirit and the hidden fund or depth of the soul. It is far
    more inward and sublime than are the three higher faculties, for it
    is their origin. It is wholly simple, essential, and uniform, and so
    there is not multiplicity in it, but unity, and in it the three higher
    faculties are one thing. Here is perfect tranquillity, deepest silence,
    because never can any image enter here. By this depth, in which
    the divine image lies hidden, we are deiform. This same depth is
    called the heaven of the spirit, for the Kingdom of God is in it, as
    the Lord said:

    'The Kingdom of God is within you';

    and the Kingdom of God is God Himself with all His riches. Therefore this naked
    and unfigured depth is above all created things, and is raised above
    all senses and faculties; it transcends place and time, abiding by a
    certain perpetual adhesion in God its beginning; yet it is essentially
    within us, because it is the abyss of the mind and its most inward
    essence. This depth, which the uncreated light ever irradiates, when
    it is laid open to a man and begins to shine on him, powerfully
    affects and attracts him. . . . May God, the uncreated Abyss, vouchsafe
    to call unto Himself our spirit, the created abyss, and make it
    one with Him, that our spirit, plunged in the deep sea of the Godhead,
    may happily lose itself in the Spirit of God.


    A later monastic writer, Pere Noel, in summarizing the thought of the earlier German mystic and Catholic preacher Johannes Tauler (c. 1300 – 15 June 1361), explains it thus:

    Do you wish to live truly of the divine life, to submit yourself fully to the illuminations of the Primary Truth, to experience the direct irradiations of the Divinity?

    Leave matter and the senses, go forth from this visible world, quit creatures, pass over the matter that encloses you, the sensations that hold you in, the imaginations that keep you captive, the thoughts and sublime concepts which you take for the Primary Truth, but which are only a magnificent though fragile scaffolding of your reason. Raise yourself above your reason, above your human intelligence which nourishes itself on phantasms, images, sensible species; descend into the fund and the inmost recess of your soul: there you will find the pure and subsistent spirit; there you will find the dwelling-place of God; there you will find God.

    This spirit by nature resembles God, God has made it for Himself. There God descends by grace and love, and only there can He descend. We are accessible to the visit of God only by those summits of our soul that, like Himself, are wholly spiritual (p. 351). There the divine Essence places itself, without intermediary of any kind, in face of the intelligence (p. 340).

    I have much more to say on this but would like your thoughts first. It's the primary goal of Eastern Orthodox and Catholic contemplation (apatheia/theosis), indeed of our entire monastic and mendicant traditions. In my earlier postings, I demonstrated how it is ultimately derived in its germinal state from the New Testament.
     
    #184 Vouthon, Feb 6, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
    • Informative Informative x 2
  5. crossfire

    crossfire Antinomian feminist heretic freak ☿
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Messages:
    10,449
    Ratings:
    +3,531
    Religion:
    ☿ Mercuræn Buddhist & Ordained Pastafarian
    Don't worry, I'm Mahayana. :)

    I'm going to take the rest of your post in small bites, in order to savor it more fully.

    Pausing to highlight this line

    One of the Brahma Abodes (Brahmavihara) is equanimity (Upekkha)

    The words upadana and tanha {clinging attachment and fiery craving} might be likened to addiction--fire clings to its fuel as it burns. The mind is like the fire, and the sense-impressions and mental images are the fuel the mind clings to and becomes addicted to. Once you see this, you can work at breaking the addiction. (Identifying an addiction and admitting you have one is the first step in breaking the addiction and being freed from it. The light of understanding from the fiery mind is harnessed to free itself from this now identified addiction.)

    (More savoring later)
     
    #185 crossfire, Feb 6, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  6. Buddha Dharma

    Buddha Dharma Dharma Practitioner

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2017
    Messages:
    2,384
    Ratings:
    +1,484
    Religion:
    Bhedabheda Vedanta
    It would be interesting from a purely comparative standpoint. I'm not sure it would resolve the divinity of Krishna questions I have. The Buddha certainly would have had some familiarity with Krishna as a venerated being in his time. I simply don't know how Krishna was seen by Indians then.
     
  7. Buddha Dharma

    Buddha Dharma Dharma Practitioner

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2017
    Messages:
    2,384
    Ratings:
    +1,484
    Religion:
    Bhedabheda Vedanta
    I think it is probably identical to luminous mind, depending if one means something mystical. Otherwise, that luminous mind follows with it.

    By Buddha-nature in Mahayana, it is often meant an actual singular nature behind phenomena. It's akin to pantheism, or even panentheism- if one understands the Buddhas reflect it as perfectly as can be done.

    That's my Buddhist view of course- that a Buddha reflects Ultimate Reality clearly. Because the faculties no longer mislead a Buddha, who has so irreversibly entered Nirvana through contact. This is a human Buddha I obviously mean here.

    There are Buddhas that are not human, but are pure reflections of the nature, sometimes said to be spontaneously generated. Amida and Vairocana are of that sort, as is the Medicine Buddha.

    Tara is an example to some Buddhists of a god/divine being that attains enlightenment. Some praises to her call her a fully awakened Buddha, but she is a deva by conception- if the Vedas are accurate. Tara seems to have Vedic origins, just as Yama.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. Buddha Dharma

    Buddha Dharma Dharma Practitioner

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2017
    Messages:
    2,384
    Ratings:
    +1,484
    Religion:
    Bhedabheda Vedanta
    The Buddha would likely take issue with the statement there is no bad, for similar reasons to how he answered two philosophers that approached him and suggested reality is just a mind-generated illusion.

    The Buddha quipped that if it were- why can't the mind generate a pleasant illusion for itself?

    Unless we are going to call real suffering and ways of inflicting harm 'good' and 'perfect'- I find it hard to say there is no bad.

    I believe in your other thread I did say that I acknowledge bad has no independent reality of it's own. It relies on truth to exist, because it distorts it. In is far as bad causes suffering though- it exists enough that it needs to be remedied.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. Buddha Dharma

    Buddha Dharma Dharma Practitioner

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2017
    Messages:
    2,384
    Ratings:
    +1,484
    Religion:
    Bhedabheda Vedanta
    @crossfire can you clarify for me if you would, if by this mind you mean something like the Yogacara school? Or you mean something like one of the Hinayana schools with essentially Carvakan epistemology- that thought mind impressions are always objective?

    The phenomenology of Maurice Merleau-Ponty is very like some of those extinct schools.
     
    #189 Buddha Dharma, Feb 6, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
  10. Buddha Dharma

    Buddha Dharma Dharma Practitioner

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2017
    Messages:
    2,384
    Ratings:
    +1,484
    Religion:
    Bhedabheda Vedanta
    Is it that perfection is illusory, or the human attempt to grasp perfection?
     
  11. Buddha Dharma

    Buddha Dharma Dharma Practitioner

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2017
    Messages:
    2,384
    Ratings:
    +1,484
    Religion:
    Bhedabheda Vedanta
    Yep we do, and one of the things that irks me is some of our more secular brethren trying to throw out the Buddha's teaching on hell, as well as the several other realms. I may be conservative in the Buddhist sense, but I tend to think the Buddha's goal wasn't to tickle people's ears. He presented a system of reality exactly as he understood it to be. I often butt heads with our more secular brethren.
     
  12. crossfire

    crossfire Antinomian feminist heretic freak ☿
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Messages:
    10,449
    Ratings:
    +3,531
    Religion:
    ☿ Mercuræn Buddhist & Ordained Pastafarian
    What I mean by subjective mind is the ability to perceive and experience subjectively. (General definition of sentience.)
    One could invoke Nagarjuna in order to equate sentience (Buddha Nature) with the nature of reality, but that would only apply to the aspects of reality we can perceive, not aspects we can't perceive.
     
  13. sandy whitelinger

    sandy whitelinger Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2005
    Messages:
    10,912
    Ratings:
    +954
    Religion:
    Narrow-minded Biblist
    I've yet to have anyone explain very well why suffering is wrong.
     
  14. sandy whitelinger

    sandy whitelinger Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2005
    Messages:
    10,912
    Ratings:
    +954
    Religion:
    Narrow-minded Biblist
    I think we are all perfect just the way we are. We are perfect in our makeup. Everything we do is a perfect reflection of our motives. Every emotion and thought are perfect responses to what triggers them. In other words we are perfectly formed for every thing we do and experience. Every outward manifestation of our existence is a perfect representations of our input and essence. That we can achieve varying results by our thoughts and action is where concepts of good and evil arise. These are perfect manifestation of duality.
     
  15. crossfire

    crossfire Antinomian feminist heretic freak ☿
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Messages:
    10,449
    Ratings:
    +3,531
    Religion:
    ☿ Mercuræn Buddhist & Ordained Pastafarian
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. Srivijaya

    Srivijaya Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2017
    Messages:
    664
    Ratings:
    +620
    Religion:
    Buddhist with a strong affinity for non-dual Shaivism
    One of the things I had always felt was missing from Christianity was a description of the path to unbinding, to the state of liberation, and it took me some time to discover it and I was astonished when I finally did, because I hadn't been consciously searching for it.

    Over the years I have come to view the highest teachings as being non-dual and there is a wonderful exposition of this within the Hsin Hsin Ming, especially the opening verse:

    The Great Way is not difficult
    for those who have no preferences.
    When love and hate are both absent
    everything becomes clear and undisguised.
    Make the smallest distinction, however,
    and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart.


    It's not just that heaven and earth are set infinitely apart; they are actually created within distinction.

    I'd also like to mention this quote attributed to a desert father:

    Where else but in our heart shall we find the Garden of Eden where Adam walked with God?

    The above two quotes are linked in a way that most Christians (or Buddhists for that matter) are entirely unaware of. Genesis is in fact the pathway teaching but has been misinterpreted for centuries and is now a sorry football between creationists and modernists; still, let those who have ears hear. In the middle east there was a long tradition of teaching in parables, so that those who were spiritually ready would understand, everyone else would just hear an interesting story.

    A lot gets said about Genesis but it is an account of division/distinction. Light is separated from darkness, water from land etc. This corresponds with the first stirrings of the dualistic consciousness, as described in Vajrayana and elsewhere - the twelve dependent related links are a descent into distinction, as only within distinction is there any space for "Self". This is why "Self" is only a convention within Buddhadharma. It's like drawing a circle on a blank sheet of paper; everything within is self, everything without is other. Erase the circle and where is the distinction?

    Genesis demonstrates how the consciousness is simultaneously both created and creates. Gender being one of the last divisions, as the unborn being is again split into masculine or feminine, Adam or Eve. But Genesis goes way beyond just that. The serpent and the apple represent the emergence of the "Self"-conscious state. A mind "dragged along and tossed by these passion-filled thoughts", described as the knowledge of good and evil (nama-rupa) - distinction of self and other (hence Adam's shame at his naked state). Once this happens, the final sundering occurs - the expulsion from Eden.

    But the game's not over. Genesis provides us with a return ticket to the Tree of Life if you can interpret what follows and are willing to garner a little help from the non-dual tradition of Kashmiri Shaivism. We are cast out east of Eden in the land of Nod (often used as a synonym for falling asleep). So where would Eden be? To the west of us but guarded by a Cherubim holding a flaming sword. We cannot enter, as the blade burns our eyes and seals us out.

    Shaivism teaches that the best time to enter Samhadi is at a place it terms the Junction. This can be the junction of two breaths or thoughts but it can also be the junction of day and night - twilight - right at that moment when the Cherubim's flaming sword is extinguished at the point which belongs to neither the day nor the night. Shiva's (or Krishna's) skin is dusky blue, the colour of the twilit sky, and there is a crescent moon in his hair. Clues abound.

    At this junction, the gates of Eden are more easily passed through and Samhadi, the state of union - return to the unborn (Tree of Life) can begin to be attained. We enter the gate with the attainment of First Jhana, as described by Buddha in the Suttas. Our awareness is stripped away from the stream of our thoughts to which it had been utterly co-joined since "the expulsion". But this time our return to the garden is accompanied by knowledge. We can observe the stages of binding when we leave Jhana, see how the thing works and moreover, we can find the gate again and again. Genesis omits nothing and ironically it is the story of creation, just not how Christians (or their detractors) understand it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  17. PicarddataSolo

    PicarddataSolo New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    9
    Ratings:
    +3
    On similarties; One is love which is one of the fruits of spirit in Galatians and includes love for one enemies. Jesus said to pray for one's enemies and bless them. Also when asked greatest commandment in Matthew Jesus responded with love God with all heart and soul and love thy neighbor. Jesus also said to overcome evil with good in Romans. Buddha agreed saying ''Hatred does not ever cease in this world by hating, but by love; this is an eternal truth... Overcome anger by love, overcome evil by good, overcome the miser by giving, overcome the liar by truth."Buddha also said ''Even if thieves carve you limb from limb with a double-handed saw, if you make your mind hostile you are not following my teaching''. Both also say golden rule with Buddha saying "Hurt not others with that which pains yourself." and Jesus saying “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the prophets ''
    The Parallels of Jesus and Buddha. - Posts from the Path
    Golden rule quotes from various religions
    More comparisons between Buddha and Jesus are listed at
    Buddha-Christ.info: Jesus and Buddha: Numerous Similarities

    One major difference is old testament. Old testament laws like death penalty for violating Sabbath differ from Buddhism. Stories like everyone down to infants being killed after Jericho fell also violate Buddhism. Leaders in old testament like Moses and David differ from Buddhism; with 3,000 people killed in the Golden Calf story and David killing women in raids.

    Morals is one of the three aspects of eight foldpath. It consists of right actions,right speech, and right livelihood. Wrong actions are killing,lying,steal,misuse of sex, and ill use of intoxicants. Another difference is Karma along with birth rebirth cycle, for example a compassionate person is born long lived while one that kills living beings is born short lived in next life. Full explanation of karma at link below.
    Karma
    Buddha explained to escape from cycle from birth and rebirth;and suffering from life one must realize the 4 noble truths and follow 8 fold path. Interesting the bible does state in revelations 21:4 God
    ''will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” This sounds similar to state of Nirvana a state of mind where there is no suffering.

    Another difference is Buddhism is considered to have stronger relationship with science. For example Buddha had a precursor to scientific method; saying ''Come Kalamas. Do not believe something because you hear it frequently; nor because people have always done it that way; nor upon rumour; nor upon what is in a scripture; nor upon incomplete evidence; nor upon what is obvious; nor upon clever, but wrong reasoning; nor upon something that accords with your pet ideas; nor upon another's impressive ability; nor because your teacher says so. Kalamas, when you yourselves know: "These things are bad; these things are blameable; these things are censured by the wise then do not follow these principles. They will not help you. Abandon them! But when, Kalamas, you yourselves know: 'These things are good; these things are not blameable; these things are praised by the wise; If you follow these teachings, they lead to benefit and happiness. So follow them and practice them''. He also said ''"Like testing gold , upon being scorched, cut and rubbed, My word is to be adopted by monastics and scholars
    Upon analyzing it well, Not out of respect [for me]". This is from Doubt and Scepticism
    Link to full explanation of Buddhism.
    Thoughts on Buddhism Contents

    For me a good blend would be ignoring most of old testament and following new testament and teachings of Jesus Christ;along with following Dhrama. Dhrama is teachings of Buddha. I look at it that Jesus also taught salvation/nirvana through also teaching right fold path.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Buddha Dharma

    Buddha Dharma Dharma Practitioner

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2017
    Messages:
    2,384
    Ratings:
    +1,484
    Religion:
    Bhedabheda Vedanta
    I'm not Theravadan, but I accept most of the Pali Suttas nonetheless, which is in the spirit of the Lotus Sutra. I don't think the Buddha was inviting the Kalamas to buffet Buddhism. I don't see that Theravada Buddhists ever historically approached it like this. I see that it was more like the Buddha saying: "come and taste my teachings yourselves". That is actually how a Theravadan explained it to me.

    As I said in another thread- the Kalama Sutta can't be inviting buffet Buddhism because neither vehicle historically treats the path that way. Both vehicles (Theravada and Mahayana- including Vajrayana) take utilizing the Buddha's whole dharma seriously, and there are more agreements than disagreements.
     
  19. Buddha Dharma

    Buddha Dharma Dharma Practitioner

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2017
    Messages:
    2,384
    Ratings:
    +1,484
    Religion:
    Bhedabheda Vedanta
    Ask people that suffer intensely why it's wrong. I'm surprised a Christian could interpret suffering as not being wrong, honestly- as the problem of suffering seems to be a common motivator in human spirituality. Most humans seem to have a notion that suffering is out of place and 'shouldn't exist'.

    This just happens to be another area where Buddhism and traditional Christians like Catholics agree, but also others. Almost every mature form of human spirituality that comes to mind is concerned with suffering.
     
  20. Buddha Dharma

    Buddha Dharma Dharma Practitioner

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2017
    Messages:
    2,384
    Ratings:
    +1,484
    Religion:
    Bhedabheda Vedanta
    One could try to invoke Master Nagarjuna, but his writing was so scenario-specific he's hard to nail down. He seems to have disagreed with treating Dharmas as absolutely real to a certain level. He got on to a substantialist Hinayana school for their view of it. Maybe because they were blurring the line between transcendent and mundane.

    Mahayana moved beyond Nagarjuna for the most part- not long after his death at all. It was Nagarjuna's paradoxes that had lasting influence, and not so much the written content.

    Nagarjuna is good food for thought, but many scholars debate to this day what his sayings actually mean.

    He was writing specifically against many now extinct schools.
     
Loading...