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When you ask me to "open my heart and pray..."? [Question to believers]

vijeno

Member
Sometimes in religious debates, christians will ask atheists such as myself to just "open my heart, let Jesus in, and pray that he reveal himself to me".

That makes me wonder: Assuming that I were to follow your kind advice -- what exactly is it you imagine that I do? How would I go about doing that?
 

Muslim-UK

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Salam,

Is it just Jesus peace be upon in that you're enquiring about, or would you like to see if the God that Jesus pbuh prayed to can answer that prayer?
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Sometimes in religious debates, christians will ask atheists such as myself to just "open my heart, let Jesus in, and pray that he reveal himself to me".

That makes me wonder: Assuming that I were to follow your kind advice -- what exactly is it you imagine that I do? How would I go about doing that?

Love my Pixel phone, but buggered if I can find the popcorn emoji...
 

vijeno

Member
...would you like to see if the God that Jesus pbuh prayed to can answer that prayer?

I'm asking about that specific line, "open your heart and pray", which I happen to only know from christians. I don't know if muslim apologists use it too.

I want to know what people who use it imagine that it would achieve, or how they imagine that I act on it. If they ask me that, what exactly do they want me to do?
 

Muslim-UK

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I'm asking about that specific line, "open your heart and pray", which I happen to only know from christians. I don't know if muslim apologists use it too.

I want to know what people who use it imagine that it would achieve, or how they imagine that I act on it. If they ask me that, what exactly do they want me to do?
Ok good questions. Muslims generally don't go down this path, they merely tell people about Islam, and then let God guide them. I personally do things differently:

Stage 1: If someone is sincere in seeking answers, then I will explain the basics of why Islam makes more sense than the other Abrahamic faiths.

Stage 2: I will then proceed to help open a direct connection between the seeker and ultimate truth.

What will the prayer achieve?

Stage 3: It will allow your heart to be gripped and your soul will 100% remember what happened before it entered your body at the 6 weeks mark in your mother's womb or test tube as the case maybe.
 

Muslim-UK

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Wonderful, but this is not an answer to my question. Again: What do you imagine that I do, when I, as an atheist, "pray" or "open my heart"?
Ok understood loud and clear.

With sincerity, lift your hands up to God and say, "Oh turner of the hearts, open my heart to you."

That's it.
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
Sometimes in religious debates, christians will ask atheists such as myself to just "open my heart, let Jesus in, and pray that he reveal himself to me".

That makes me wonder: Assuming that I were to follow your kind advice -- what exactly is it you imagine that I do? How would I go about doing that?

Just do it. Open your heart and ask Jesus, "If you truly are the Son of God, please come into my heart and reveal yourself." Trust that if He is the Son of God He loves you and wants you to turn from the evil of this world.
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
See post 5

Oh. So we have a guy who only reads what he wishes to read and ignores the rest. We have entirely too many people like that on RF.com.

Muslims do not pray to Jesus and do not believe He is deity so your opinion about the OP is invalid. It is just that simple.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Wonderful, but this is not an answer to my question. Again: What do you imagine that I do, when I, as an atheist, "pray" or "open my heart"?

You sincerely actually talk to god (with whom you perceive as god) in a normal conversational voice. When you see things happen out of the norm, believers tend to attribute the cause t god because when they pray they synchronize the words of their prayers to anything that notice happens to reflect it.

I see it so often that if I thought it was a god; a being (I'm atheist but used to pray a lot; very life changing), I'd be laughing to myself. I've seen it zillions of times. Results people say from prayers can be attribute to natural causes and just life's mysterious hiccups here and there-pretty much most of the time.

Open your heart just means be more aware to your environment and how it relates to god. If you open your heart (or see things in relation to god) and you pray (reflect and converse with god about the things you noticed and the things you want happen in your life) you become more likely to find connections in daily events you wouldn't find if you had not been "open to communication."

Spiritualist, we say "god of our understanding" but most define it as infinite intelligence rather than god. If I had my play on the words related to christianity, opening your heart is opening to how your mind is connected to the world around you and yourself-how you communicate your purpose and desires and see them happening without your needing to put much effort into it. You put more priority in things that come without your actions (it's not about deeds, they say) then what you do.

So, when you pray, that's what you would do as an atheist. I hope this answered your question. Christians won't analyze the logic behind it. It's covered by god and the language of the bible.
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Christians say all sorts of things that sound funny. Leaves you wondering what the heck is that supposed to mean. Just nod and agree, then do what makes sense to you. When I read the bible I noticed that hardening your heart meant about the same thing as what we would call today, closing your mind. So it would basically mean, open your mind to Jesus.
 

vijeno

Member
Muslims, note that the OP is addressing Christians. He is not asking you anything.


Well, yes, in my OP I only addressed christians, because those are the ones I meet who use that line. But I'm open to any believer who uses similar lines with nonbelievers, because I think the underlying issues are always the same.

With the following quotes I run into the very same issue every single time...

With sincerity, lift your hands up to God and say

Just do it. Open your heart and ask Jesus

You sincerely actually talk to god

Now, of course, my original question was "What do you imagine that I do?" In a way, that question was answered: You imagine that I can do "with sincerety", what you do all the time, based on your faith.

But please bear in mind that I lack that faith.

So the question arises: How would I "sincerely lift my hands up to god"? If I lift my hands up, to me there is only sky above, since I do not believe that god exists. So, apart from a somewhat awkward feeling, nothing happens (I just tried it). So how can I *sincerely* lift my hands to god? How can I "ask Jesus" who, from my point of view, died and rotted and never came back?

Quite literally, I do not see any way that I could fulfill those requests.

So, do you imagine that I really CAN talk to god with sincerety, even though for me he doesn't exist? Or do you imagine that it doesn't matter whether that act is sincere or not?
 

vijeno

Member
I think I can rephrase it now, so it becomes a bit more succinct:

Prayer presupposes belief in god's existence. An atheist does not believe in god's existence. Therefore, an atheist cannot pray.

So, if a believer asks an atheist to pray nonetheless, they possibly...

  • think that prayer does not presuppose that belief, and the definition above is wrong
  • think that prayer, in some way, works even if it is not done sincerely
  • think that atheists can somehow still believe, even if they say they don't
  • think that believing is a pure act of will, and the atheist just refuses to do it
  • ...or something I didn't think of
So which one is it?
 

Muslim-UK

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Now, of course, my original question was "What do you imagine that I do?" In a way, that question was answered: You imagine that I can do "with sincerety", what you do all the time, based on your faith.

But please bear in mind that I lack that faith.

So the question arises: How would I "sincerely lift my hands up to god"? If I lift my hands up, to me there is only sky above, since I do not believe that god exists. So, apart from a somewhat awkward feeling, nothing happens (I just tried it). So how can I *sincerely* lift my hands to god? How can I "ask Jesus" who, from my point of view, died and rotted and never came back?

Quite literally, I do not see any way that I could fulfill those requests.

So, do you imagine that I really CAN talk to god with sincerety, even though for me he doesn't exist? Or do you imagine that it doesn't matter whether that act is sincere or not?
Before I come to your question, recall the advice from the Christian brother was to ask Jesus pbuh to guide you, yet in the Bible:

Going a little farther, HE FELL WITH HIS FACE TO THE GROUND AND PRAYED, “MY FATHER, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.” [Matthew 26:39]

17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” John 20:17

Now coming to your question. You tried it and nothing happened. YES it absolutely matters that you are sincere. Perhaps there's insincerity or perhaps a devil is whispering to you, (yes they exist). To rule out the devil making mischief, try the following before going to bed:

1- Have a bath or take a shower, if not then minimum wash hands, face, arms up to elbow and feet. Get ready for bed, but before getting in ask God for guidance again.

2- In your bedroom cover any pictures or ornaments depicting faces.

3- Play the following aloud, but not blasting, we don't want your family kicking down your door :/


4 - Goto Quran Explorer and select the following options:
Turn off translation. (You can read the English before or after) but we need Arabic only for this.
Select Mishari Rashid HD as the reciter, or another voice you like.
Select continuous play.

Mobile version here Quran - Recite & Listen Quran Online

5 - Using headphones on medium volume, start at chapter 1, lay back and listen for as long as you can, but minimum 10-15 mins

Let's see if your soul remembers the promise it made to God:

And [mention] when your Lord took from the children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants and made them testify of themselves, [saying to them], "Am I not your Lord?" They said, "Yes, we have testified." [This] - lest you should say on the day of Resurrection, "Indeed, we were of this unaware." Qur'an 7:172

Repeat for 3 days, then report back here or pm me.

If you don't wish to do all the above, then borrow a Qur'an from your local Library or Mosque, go home and ask God to help you, ask any question you want, then randomly open any page of the Qur'an and read where ever you eyes fall. It will answer what ever question you have.

Peace
 

vijeno

Member
Great. Now I'm supposed to pray to Jesus, whom I don't believe in, pray to Allah, whom I don't believe in, cover all those beauties in my home (while I'm still allowed to look at my supermodel girlfriend in the nude, I guess), and listen to lots of words in a language I don't understand, in a musical style I absolutely abhor.

Well, I guess once I am done with that ordeal, I'll reconvert to catholicism just to escape this hellish ordeal. :)

Yeah.

Not gonna happen, folks. Not gonna happen.

Back to the original question, Muslim-UK: How do you imagine that I would be capable of doing that *with sincerety*?

Remember: I do not believe in your god. I cannot *sincerely* pray to him. How would I? He doesn't exist, in my view. How would I pray?
 

Muslim-UK

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Great. Now I'm supposed to pray to Jesus, whom I don't believe in, pray to Allah, whom I don't believe in, cover all those beauties in my home (while I'm still allowed to look at my supermodel girlfriend in the nude, I guess), and listen to lots of words in a language I don't understand, in a musical style I absolutely abhor.

Well, I guess once I am done with that ordeal, I'll reconvert to catholicism just to escape this hellish ordeal. :)

Yeah.

Not gonna happen, folks. Not gonna happen.

Back to the original question, Muslim-UK: How do you imagine that I would be capable of doing that *with sincerety*?

Remember: I do not believe in your god. I cannot *sincerely* pray to him. How would I? He doesn't exist, in my view. How would I pray?
You've pretty much answered your own question.

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful
109:1 Say, "O you disbelievers."
109:2 "I do not worship what you worship."
109:3 "Nor do you worship what I worship."
109:4 "Nor will I ever worship what you worship."
109:5 "Nor will you ever worship what I worship."
109:6 "To you is your religion, and to me is my religion."

Peace
 
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