When was "the Messiah" first mentioned in scripture?

[URAVIP2ME]

What makes more sense to me is the teaching that these 2 very important, educated adults (son and daughter of God) that "suddenly appear" in history, knew what the will of God was concerning how they were to proceed with their administration. The evil one, who had already fallen, managed to outflank the pair and lead them into default. Eve's sin had biological consequences to her descendants among the people of the earth, the pains of childbirth.

Yes, Eve's sin had biological consequences but if you read 1 Timothy 2:14-15 you will find the blame is placed on Adam.
Adam eating after Eve ate caused the outcast from Eden. Children were all born outside of Eden.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Malarky. "Jewish activists"[sic] aren't trying to discredit Jesus. Jews have no desire to discredit Jesus. Jews just stand by Torah. If that is a problem for Christians,................

The Tanach is No problem for this Christian.
Someone told me the Soncino translation speaks of the disparaging of Jesus (?)

 

[Shaul]

The Tanach is No problem for this Christian.
Someone told me the Soncino translation speaks of the disparaging of Jesus (?)

Someone? Ask your "someone" how Jews are portrayed in Christian sources.

 

[dybmh]

The Tanach is No problem for this Christian.
Someone told me the Soncino translation speaks of the disparaging of Jesus (?)

Which Jesus? ( Matthew 24:5 )

And I think you mean Talmud, not Tanach.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

The books of the Torah don't credit the authors and give no indication about what the original language was. You have provided some insight into transcribers.

You obviously haven't read a Jewish Torah scroll in Hebrew because it 100% does state who transcribed it and what languages were being spoken. Just like various other Hebrew text of the Tanakh state who the scribe was. If you look the attached paper I give a list of this. Can you please show a picture of the Torah scrolls you have read before? Maybe I can point it out for you. For example, here are a few pictures of the Torah scrolls I have personally read from.

Further, this Torah Scroll notes who the scribe was that transcribed the original in full.

Also,

I hope that helps.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

If you look at any of my posts you will find I never used the word ' the' before Messiah at Daniel 9:25-26 NWT
Saying I said 'the' Messiah any time is false, that is a new thought for me.
Just because some missionaries somewhere using the old King James used the word ' the' does Not mean the Scriptures say that.
Again, I never said 'the' Messiah in my posts. That is putting a word in my posts that does Not appear.

I didn't say you did. You asked about Daniel 9:25-26 the video I posted deals with that topic.

 

[Colt]

You obviously haven't read a Jewish Torah scroll in Hebrew because it 100% does state who transcribed it and what languages were being spoken. Just like various other Hebrew text of the Tanakh state who the scribe was. If you look the attached paper I give a list of this. Can you please show a picture of the Torah scrolls you have read before? Maybe I can point it out for you. For example, here are a few pictures of the Torah scrolls I have personally read from.

View attachment 70756

Further, this Torah Scroll notes who the scribe was that transcribed the original in full.

View attachment 70757

Also,

View attachment 70758

View attachment 70759

I hope that helps.

No, it doesn't help, you responded to a different point.

----->"The books of the Torah don't credit the authors and give no indication about what the original language was. You have provided some insight into transcribers."

 

[Colt]

Yes, Eve's sin had biological consequences but if you read 1 Timothy 2:14-15 you will find the blame is placed on Adam.
Adam eating after Eve ate caused the outcast from Eden. Children were all born outside of Eden.

Paul puts the blame on Adam because traditionally the scriptures are written by chauvinistic men who look down on women so much that they couldn't even face the fact that in their explanation of things it was a woman who was fooled that lead to the fall of mankind! Further, sin was already in the world in the fallen crafty beast! The devil fools Eve, Eve sinned and then Adam deliberately sinned. That is a fact in the chronology of the Israelites creation story.

REVELATION 12:9

KJ21
And the great dragon was cast out — that serpent of old called the Devil and Satan, who deceiveth the whole world. He was cast out onto the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.


The church converted Paul's writings into the "word of God". Paul would be horrified to find out that his simple letters of correspondence were elevated to Gods word!

 

[Ehav4Ever]

----->"The books of the Torah don't credit the authors and give no indication about what the original language was. You have provided some insight into transcribers."

We Torath Jews have Torah Scrolls, and they do. For example, this is a Torah scroll and the scribe of the first one is mentioned.

All of them attest the first scribe of the entire text in the following way.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

what the original language was. You have provided some insight into transcribers."

In terms of what the language has historical been for Torah Scrolls from their inception till now, and also the language that Torath Mosheh Israelis/spoke/speak. The following should help.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

I forgot to add this one.

 

[Colt]

We Torath Jews have Torah Scrolls, and they do. For example, this is a Torah scroll and the scribe of the first one is mentioned.

View attachment 70762

All of them attest the first scribe of the entire text in the following way.

You are confusing scribe with author.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

You are confusing scribe with author.

No, I am not. The scribe and the author were given in what I provided. Didn't you read the Hebrew?

 

[Colt]

In terms of what the language has historical been for Torah Scrolls from their inception till now, and also the language that Torath Mosheh Israelis/spoke/speak. The following should help.

I'm already familiar with the discussion of early Hebrew. Moses predates the development of the Hebrews language which is a derivative of the Phoenician alphabet. Moses didn't come out of Egypt speaking the Hebrew of the Torah scrolls. Moses was a reformer of the previous beliefs and practices from nearly 400+ years of the ancestors of the Israelites living in Egypt. 200 years prior to that Abram would have spoken a different language and his religion was that of his father from "beyond the rivers". The Hollywood-like production of the Israelites story of origins was finalized in the Hebrew of the Babylonian exile period.

 

[Colt]

No, I am not. The scribe and the author were given in what I provided. Didn't you read the Hebrew?

Then who is the author of Gensis? You didn't provide the original written scroll of Gensis because its dust!

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Then who is the author of Gensis? You didn't provide the original written scroll of Gensis because its dust!

I already provided that in the paper I provided, besides the Gensis is not a Middle Eastern, African, or Asian word so it would not have existed in any text from those regions from several thousand years ago.

In terms of Torath Mosheh Jews, we don't need the first version of a text. We only need a (מסורת) and all compariable texts for said (מסורת).

 

[Colt]

I already provided that in the paper I provided, besides the Gensis is not a Middle Eastern, African, or Asian word so it would not have existed in any text from those regions from several thousand years ago.

In terms of Torath Mosheh Jews, we don't need the first version of a text. We only need a (מסורת) and all compariable texts for said (מסורת).

Others understand what the English word "Genesis" means. Neither do Christians need the first draft of the Gospels.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Paul puts the blame on Adam because traditionally the scriptures are written by chauvinistic men who look down on women so much that they couldn't even face the fact that in their explanation of things it was a woman who was fooled that lead to the fall of mankind! Further, sin was already in the world in the fallen crafty beast! The devil fools Eve, Eve sinned and then Adam deliberately sinned. That is a fact in the chronology of the Israelites creation story.
REVELATION 12:9
KJ21
And the great dragon was cast out — that serpent of old called the Devil and Satan, who deceiveth the whole world. He was cast out onto the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
The church converted Paul's writings into the "word of God". Paul would be horrified to find out that his simple letters of correspondence were elevated to Gods word!

Yes, the devil sinned first that is why Jesus calls him the ' father' (life giver) to the lie at John 8:44. - Genesis 3:4
That does Not mean human creation had to listen to Satan.
1 Timothy 2:14-15 is in reference to Genesis 3:13; 3:6
Paul was making reference to what was already recorded in Genesis.
Adam did Not have to listen to Eve. It was Adam's choice.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I didn't say you did. You asked about Daniel 9:25-26 the video I posted deals with that topic.

The video kept harping about the word "the" I never used the word 'the' before Messiah.

 

[Colt]

Yes, the devil sinned first that is why Jesus calls him the ' father' (life giver) to the lie at John 8:44. - Genesis 3:4
That does Not mean human creation had to listen to Satan.
1 Timothy 2:14-15 is in reference to Genesis 3:13; 3:6
Paul was making reference to what was already recorded in Genesis.
Adam did Not have to listen to Eve. It was Adam's choice.

Right, but the common saying "through one man sin entered the world" is not accurate. Through Satan sin or rebellion entered our world which was already populated anyway. Cain feared people out in the world, God agreed with him.