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When they ask me, how do I know the Bible is TRUTH

ashai

Active Member
Pah said:
It forefills it's prophecy by saying it forefilled it's prophecy. The Bible is nothing spiritually without external verification. Would my Bible of the Invisible Pink Unicorn (it's called Stable Writings) prove that the Invisible Pink Unicorn exists because I attributed quotes to her?

Ushta Pah

Its fulfills!:) But that is all right because you are absolutely correct! Its what is called a circular argument
The Sky is polka dot!
Why?
Because the book of t says so!
And what is the book of t?
The infallible inerrant word of Y.
And who is Y?
The infallible and inerrant god.
And how do we know that Y exists?
Because the book of t says so!
And how we know the book of t is right?
Because it is inerrant and infallible word of Y!
AAAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!

I am a convinced theist but the arguments of many of my Christian friends ...
drive me:banghead3 :banghead3 :banghead3

Ushta Te
Ashai
 

Ori

Angel slayer
ashai said:
Ushta orichalcum

Sorry! :( I thought you were serious! The :devil: made me do it that's my excuse and I am sticking to it!

You really made me upset, :sad4: I had to go and do some real soul searching after that, why God? Why?

You silly bear! :biglaugh:

No need to take me seriously.
 

Tiberius

Well-Known Member
TheTruthWillSetUFree said:
I get alot of people tell me ,how do I know that the writings in the Bible are true.?You know it happened so long ago,what makes you think any of that stuff really happened.Every time I try to explain some scriptures ,they always question there accuracy.I'll tell them that its History that is documented over 2000 years.They still have there excuses.So anymore I just say to them,who was the first President of the United States.And they say George Washington.And I say how do you know that.They say it is written in history books.And I say ,how do we know those writers are telling the truth.You get my point?History is hisory.The BIBLE is History.It did happen.No excuses,It is GOD's Word.Its the Truth.and it is all Inspired by God.

The difference is that when it comes to George being the first president, we have many differnet sources that were made at the time that he was President that say he was President.

However, when it comes to the Bible, there are no other sources that stem from the time. Are there any other sources apart from the Bible that tell us what the ten Commandments are? None that comes from the time. Any you find will have been written very recently in comparison to the Bible.

Besides, if your argument is going to be "You can't prove it isn't true, so it must be true, then I will ask you this:

If we found a book saying the Invisible Pink unicorn created the world and this manuscript is several thousand years old, would you believe?

Oh wait, we have found a book like this, an ancient manuscript that conflicts with Christianity. It's called the Koran.

Please tell me why your argument applies to the Bible and not to the Koran.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Tiberius said:
The difference is that when it comes to George being the first president, we have many differnet sources that were made at the time that he was President that say he was President.

However, when it comes to the Bible, there are no other sources that stem from the time. Are there any other sources apart from the Bible that tell us what the ten Commandments are? None that comes from the time. Any you find will have been written very recently in comparison to the Bible.

Besides, if your argument is going to be "You can't prove it isn't true, so it must be true, then I will ask you this:

If we found a book saying the Invisible Pink unicorn created the world and this manuscript is several thousand years old, would you believe?

Oh wait, we have found a book like this, an ancient manuscript that conflicts with Christianity. It's called the Koran.

Please tell me why your argument applies to the Bible and not to the Koran.

You're making an incorrect assumption about the Bible. The Bible is a collection of many different source materials about God. The manuscripts contained within the collection we call "The Bible" were written by many different authors over a long period of time, and over what would have been at the time a large geographical area. We collected them and placed them together in one "book" for the sake of convenience. The manuscripts agree as to the nature and intent of God.

Again, the point isn't about proof, it's about revelation.
 

Tiberius

Well-Known Member
Why then do they constantly disagree? For example, the Bible constantly tells us that God is loving, yet he commits many atrocities.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Tiberius said:
Why then do they constantly disagree? For example, the Bible constantly tells us that God is loving, yet he commits many atrocities.

Because the stories are told from differing viewpoints. And...you just said yourself that the constant is that God is loving. Maybe that's the important truth we can glean from scripture...
 

Tiberius

Well-Known Member
Stories that are told from differing viewpoints are not so different as the Biblical stories.

A husband and his wife are going to have almost identical recollections of their wedding day.

And about God being loving? His actions speak lourder than his words. "I'm loving," says God as he drowns everyone but Noah and his family. And yet if I was to drown all my children but one, I'd hardly be considered loving, not matter what the children had done to warrant drowning.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Tiberius said:
Stories that are told from differing viewpoints are not so different as the Biblical stories.

A husband and his wife are going to have almost identical recollections of their wedding day.

And about God being loving? His actions speak lourder than his words. "I'm loving," says God as he drowns everyone but Noah and his family. And yet if I was to drown all my children but one, I'd hardly be considered loving, not matter what the children had done to warrant drowning.

God's mercy extended to those who accepted that mercy...a very progressive way of thinking for the Biblical writers of that time.
 

Tiberius

Well-Known Member
In other words, Christians. God's mercy extends to Christians.

Why then are so many Christians suffering if God is showing them mercy? or have they just not accepted God's mercy? because I thought that if anyone had, those Christians would have.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Tiberius said:
In other words, Christians. God's mercy extends to Christians.

Why then are so many Christians suffering if God is showing them mercy? or have they just not accepted God's mercy? because I thought that if anyone had, those Christians would have.

I didn't say that. I said that the idea was a progressive one for the writers of that time. For the writers, Israel was the faithful remnant. Most Christians today understand the Noah story as metaphorical, and we don't read it literalistically. The character of Noah represented Israel.

Mercy does not eradicate suffering. Rather, mercy enables us to experience God standing in solidarity with us when we suffer. We have no greater advocate. Today, we believe that God's mercy extends to all -- we have only to perceive it.
 

Mathematician

Reason, and reason again
If "history is history", then it (history) is great at branching out the "truths" all at once. I've read history where Jesus is a prophet (Muslims), the son of God (Christians), a man (Atheists/Jews), and never existed (Atheists/Jews). Oh my.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
GeneCosta said:
If "history is history", then it (history) is great at branching out the "truths" all at once. I've read history where Jesus is a prophet (Muslims), the son of God (Christians), a man (Atheists/Jews), and never existed (Atheists/Jews). Oh my.

Who wrote the history? Humans. Whose perspective on God is limited? Humans.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
TheTruthWillSetUFree said:
I get alot of people tell me ,how do I know that the writings in the Bible are true.?You know it happened so long ago,what makes you think any of that stuff really happened.Every time I try to explain some scriptures ,they always question there accuracy.I'll tell them that its History that is documented over 2000 years.They still have there excuses.So anymore I just say to them,who was the first President of the United States.And they say George Washington.And I say how do you know that.They say it is written in history books.And I say ,how do we know those writers are telling the truth.You get my point?History is hisory.The BIBLE is History.It did happen.No excuses,It is GOD's Word.Its the Truth.and it is all Inspired by God.

When people ask you how you know the Bible is true, why don't you just say you have faith it's true, and leave it at that?
 

Baerly

Active Member
The Bible Doctrine of Inspiration PART -1

August 2, 2004 by Kevin Cauley - Berryville church of Christ, Berryville Arkansas
SUBJECT: Bible
TITLE: The Bible Doctrine of Inspiration
PROPOSITION: In this lesson we will look at the Bible doctrine of inspiration: the evidence for inspiration; the nature of inspiration; the function of inspiration; and the scope of inspiration; some misunderstandings of inspiration.
Objectives: The hearer should be able to: state some misunderstandings; state what inspiration is; understand the authority, function, and scope of inspiration.
Aim: To help everyone understand what the Bible doctrine of inspiration is and implies and to help all respect God's authority.
INTRODUCTION:
1. Read: 2 Timothy 3:14-17.
2. About the Text:
1) The aged apostle is writing to the evangelist Timothy.
2) In contrast to evil men and seducers (v.13), Paul exhorts Timothy to continue in the things
a. He has learned.
b. He has been assured of.
c. Whereof he knows the source
d. The Holy Scriptures.
e. Things that make him wise unto salvation.
3) These things were given by inspiration of God--they were God-breathed.
4) These things are authoritative.
5) They are ALL authoritative.
6) They were given for instruction.
3. Ref. to S, T, P, O, and A.
DISCUSSION:In looking at the Bible doctrine of inspiration we find.
I. The Evidence for Inspiration--we can expect God's word to have certain characteristics.
1. If the Bible is inspired, then there must be evidence of its inspiration.
2. We would expect the following:
1) That it would be 100% accurate in all things scientific.
2) That it would not contradict itself; God is the author of all truth and cannot contradict himself.
3) That it would contain a fundamental message throughout.
4) That it would be written to all men to address their relationship with God.
5) That it would contain a lofty standard of morality.
6) That it would contain certain things that only God could know.
a. Prophecy.
b. Revelation of God's nature.
7) That it would be confirmed by miracles.
a. Mark 16:20 "And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following."
b. Hebrews 2:4 " God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?"
3. We do find these things in the scriptures.
4. It is not our purpose to examine these evidences now, but merely to state that an inspired document would contain such things.

II. The Nature of Inspiration--it is authoritative.
1. The words are God-breathed.
1) They literally came from God.
2) He breathed out His spirit upon the apostles so that they could speak God's words.
3) This is the significance of John 20:22 " And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:"
2. They are therefore authoritative and we must respect them to be pleasing to God. Jesus said in John 12:48 "He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day."
3. They give us everything we need to know to live our life. Titus 2:11, 12 "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;"

III. The function of inspiration--to communicate God's ideas to man's understanding in a way that guarantees that all can receive the truth.
1. God communicated through his Spirit. 1 Corinthians 2:10-13 "But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? Even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God."
 

Baerly

Active Member
BIBLE DOCTRINE / INSPIRATION

PART 2 From: thepreachersfiles.com

2. The Spirit gave the words to the apostles and prophets through words. 1 Corinthians 2:12,13 "Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but (in words) which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual (words)"
3. The apostles and prophets, in turn, shared this information with the uninspired. Ephesians 3:3-5 "How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;"
4. 2 Peter 1:19-21 "We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation (origination). For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."
IV. The scope of inspiration--all of the Bible is inspired.
1. Paul said to Timothy that "All scripture" was given by inspiration.
2. Jesus regarding both the law and the prophets as inspired of God.
1) Matthew 22:40 "On these two commandments hang all the law and prophets."
2) Luke 24:44 "And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me."
3. Jesus said that his apostles would be guided into all truth. "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come." (John 16:13).
4. The apostles were guided into all truth. They revealed all truth. We have what they revealed. Everything we have from them is truth--all of it!
5. In this regard, the apostle John issues a final warning in Rev. 22:19: "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

V. Some misunderstandings of inspiration.
1. Inspired like Shakespeare--just a good work.
1) The atheist, infidel, and modernist would have us believe this.
2) If it is just a product of men, then why should we accept it?
3) Jesus said, there is none that is good except one--God! (Mark 10:17,18).
4) If the Bible REALLY is a GOOD book, then it must have come from God.
5) If it did not come from God, then it can't be a good book.
2. Partly inspired, but not fully.
1) Those who do not like parts of the Bible would have us accept this.
2) Example of Jehoiakim who took the prophesy of Jeremiah and cut it up and then threw it in the fire (Jeremiah 36:23).
3) Which part? What do we accept and what do we reject?
4) By what standard do we say this part is inspired, but this part is not?
5) Again, these are modernists attempts to remove the miraculous from the Bible.
6) If we accept part of it, we have to accept all of it. If we reject part of it, we must reject all of it.
a. This principle is reflected by both Paul and James:
b. James says that if you are guilty in part of the law, you are guilty in all of it (James 2:10).
c. Paul wrote that those who are debtor's to part of the law are debtors to all of the law (Galatians 5:3).
7) The scriptures stand as a unit. They are either ALL inspired or not at all.
3. The thought is inspired, but not each individual word.
1) The idea here is that God gave the prophet a great idea, but did not inspire the individual words that they wrote.
2) Again, who determines what the original idea was?
3) How can you have an idea without words to express that idea?
4) What if the prophet understood the idea, but wrote it down wrong?
5) Where is the assurance that we actually have God's message in this?.

CONCLUSION:
1. We have looked tonight at the Bible doctrine of inspiration.
1) The evidence of inspiration--that we can expect from God's word certain things that show it to be inspired.
2) The nature of inspiration--it is authoritative.
3) The function of inspiration--to reveal God's thoughts to man in an accurate way.
4) The scope of inspiration--that all of the Bible is inspired.
5) Some misunderstandings regarding inspiration.
2. Invitation
1) If you are a Christian but have fallen away
a. Then you need to bring your life back under the authority of Christ.
b. The Bible is not just a good book--it is God's book and we will all one day be judged by it.
2) If you are not a Christian this morning . . .
a. You need to humbly submit yourself to God's inspired book. This book tells man what God expects him to do to have a right relationship with God.
b. Heed the plan that it has for man's salvation today!
a) Hear the word; Romans 10:17 "Faith comes by hearing . . ."
b) Believe with all your heart; Hebrews 11:6 "For without faith it is impossible . . . ."
c) Repent of your sins (Acts 17:30).
d) Confess Jesus as the Son of God (Matthew 16:16).
e) Be baptized for the remission of your sins (Mark 16:15,16).

From :thepreachersfiles.com
 

Hacker

Well-Known Member
Can I just ask a simple question(I haven't read this entire thread yet) but could somebody please explain to me (especially the OP since he claims the bible to be the ultimate truth) how do you KNOW that the bible is the truth? How could the biblical scholars accurately interpret God's word when it was man made? How can anyone believe all of it to be fact, besides Dawny which made a great point that it's about faith and I understand that. But when one makes a statement in regards to the bible as being the truth is doing nothing but making a conjecture. In addition, the Torah AND the Koran claim to be the truth. So I can definitely say with confidence that you can't PROVE the bible to ultimately be the truth, but you DO have that choice to believe it to be true, by faith just as the Muslims, Jews, etc etc, do. You just can't say that it's the truth, you can't.:cool:
 

Hacker

Well-Known Member
finalfrogo said:
And as you claim to have "knowledge" of the truth through the Bible, how do you account for all the inconsistencies and illogicalities inherent within such a text?
Exactly.
 

Pah

Uber all member
Baerly,

What you have done is to provide an example of "circular truth". No book is true because it says it is.
 
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