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Featured When the Sky?

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by sandy whitelinger, Jan 18, 2018.

  1. robocop (actually)

    robocop (actually) Well-Known Member
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    There was water covering the crust with a thick mist sky... all water and water vapor over the land in the second day. Then when the dry land appeared the ocean water was drained through holes to do this. Between the crust and the water vapor clouds that were still there was now air. After bacteria, plants and fish birds were created in this space and before land animals. If you subscribe to my beliefs you can ask me a question and I have more information.
     
  2. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    The Bible account is terse and doesn't answer all questions. I'm not sure
     
  3. Infernum

    Infernum New Member

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    If you can understand the following verse, Genesis is also understandable.

    John 4:13 Jesus said to her, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again. 14 But whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a fount of water springing up to eternal life.” The same water is used in Genesis.

    It is because the value of Genesis is in the spiritual message, not the literal. If we understand what the waters in Genesis represent, then we can understand what light, darkness, the sea, the sun and moon, the earth, the beasts, the man and woman, the snake and the trees all represent. The writer of revelation knew this and it's apparent in his writings. Just read Revelation 12 to see many of the concepts.

    And if you think spiritual meaning is a 'cop out' you are unfortunately missing the whole point of the Bible and the words of Jesus.
     
  4. sandy whitelinger

    sandy whitelinger Veteran Member

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    Well said. I'm not sure either. My best lead right now is that it was part of the water and part of the formless and void earth. The atmosphere seems to be part of the chaos of 1:1, before order, and arose from there.
     
    #44 sandy whitelinger, Jan 19, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
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  5. sandy whitelinger

    sandy whitelinger Veteran Member

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    I think your concept of the word "in" and my concept of it vary greatly.
     
  6. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    That is fine. Each has to make sense of our reality as our makeup dictates to us.

    The more important things are helping the needy when we can. I think this world is on its way into a horrible end, and a lot of us are going to need to work together to survive - just like the very 1st Christians did.
     
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  7. sandy whitelinger

    sandy whitelinger Veteran Member

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    Canopy theory.
     
  8. robocop (actually)

    robocop (actually) Well-Known Member
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    No. That is concerned with Noah's Ark. This is about creation. I have a radical theory of Noah's Ark.
     
  9. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    But the account in Genesis is about the the beginning of all creation.

    Genesis1
    1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
    65 millions of years ago when the dinosaurs were killed off by an asteroid was not the beginning of creation.

    In any case, have a good day.

    .
     
  10. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
    3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day. ASV
    Verse one & two are given as the creation of the physical universe and earth - in an unspecified beginning.
    From verse 3, we enter the Terra-forming periods, about which some claim it is 24h days, but which may be demonstrated Biblically to be a minimum of 7000 years long, and a possible maximum that is unknown, but still constrained with what happens on those days in Genesis chapter 1, and verses 1 & 2.

    The mentioning of the dinosaurs was to demonstrate what science claims happens to the atmosphere when asteroids and meteors of sufficient size impact earth. Since we can see that early on, from day one on, large scale life is not mentioned, but light etc. is - we can therefore from this understand how the atmosphere would be in terms of clarity, in terms of letting light down to the surface and understand the description given. Looking at the moon, it is obvious that in early times, our moon and earth was under heavy bombardment by these a's and m's. This tells us why the bodies of the sun, moon, stars do not become visible until much later, tells us how there could be light enough for plants to grow, and is the key to understanding what is described in the text.

    If you agree is not my problem. I just tried to help someone who asked about these matters. If my assistance is brushed aside, I don't really care. I am happy with my understanding as it is.
     
    #50 Grandliseur, Jan 19, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
  11. sandy whitelinger

    sandy whitelinger Veteran Member

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    The canopy theory has as it's beginning the world of Genesis1. It's an illegitimate child of replacement theology. There's a problem in the allogorizing of where the sun, the moon and the stars are placed. A littoral interpretation places them in the atmosphere.
     
    #51 sandy whitelinger, Jan 20, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  12. sandy whitelinger

    sandy whitelinger Veteran Member

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    I think he was using the similarity of the conditions of the extinction event as a corollary to the conditions shortly after creation.

    Whether they know it or not this is all part of something called the Canopy theory put forth by Isaac Vail in 1874. It's generally discredited.
     
  13. robocop (actually)

    robocop (actually) Well-Known Member
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    Right. I believe differently about the 4th day too. I believe they were there in Outer Space, like normal. What it was about was getting creation accustomed to the Seasons and there was also some surveying of the Stars.
     
  14. sandy whitelinger

    sandy whitelinger Veteran Member

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    The stars being in the firmament means the water above is in the heaven beyond space.
    .
     
  15. robocop (actually)

    robocop (actually) Well-Known Member
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    Yes but we both know that's wrong... dark matter notwithstanding. Let's go for an explanation that works. I'm sorry my Hebrew is limited, but if you would please tell me what Hebrew words you're looking at and where in Strong's Concordance they are I would be glad to look at it with you.
     
  16. robocop (actually)

    robocop (actually) Well-Known Member
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    The first time "firmament" appears in the Bible it means between the liquid water and water vapor. Every time after that it means "Outer Space."
     
  17. robocop (actually)

    robocop (actually) Well-Known Member
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    katzpur taught me that.
     
  18. sandy whitelinger

    sandy whitelinger Veteran Member

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    Actually, although I'm aware of the Hebrew, I'm only looking at the English. KJV to be exact.
     
  19. sandy whitelinger

    sandy whitelinger Veteran Member

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    There's still a big hole there.
     
  20. robocop (actually)

    robocop (actually) Well-Known Member
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    Not going to comment... I have copyright information. Sorry.
     
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