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When the Bible contains obvious falsehood!

Spiderman

Veteran Member
You can't figure out the size of the universe if you never leave the room in your house.
I'm totally hung up on this and the more I reflect on it the more asinine it becomes to me.

We should start a whole thread dedicated to that statement where everyone gives forth their interpretation and the best answer gets a prize!
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
I'm totally hung up on this and the more I reflect on it the more asinine it becomes to me.

We should start a whole thread dedicated to that statement where everyone gives forth their interpretation and the best answer gets a prize!
I suspect that it is in reference to the idea that one cannot learn if they forever remain in their box.

Creationists, for example.
 

omega2xx

Well-Known Member
So how do I trust what I read in the Bible when I encounter obvious falsehoods?

John 14:13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

John 16:23 In that day you will no longer ask me anything. Very truly I tell you, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name.

Those two statements are obvious falsehood!

Now I'm aware of James 1

"But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. 7For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord".

But here in lies the problem. One of the definitions of insanity is "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." I've asked many times for noble graces and virtues to help me serve and obey God, and not received them. I asked in Jesus name without doubting, but when God repeatedly is unfaithful to his word, that is when the doubt starts to set in. If God would be faithful to His Word, I wouldn't doubt.

I know you're reading this Mr. God!! ;)


Jesus gave us one rule for prayer everyone seems to forget.

Mt 26:39 - And He went a little beyond them, and fell on his face and prayed saying, "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me; yet not as I will, but as You will.

No Christian wants God to answer a prayer that is not in God's will. God always does what is best for His children.
 

siti

Well-Known Member
Super Universe said:
You can't figure out the size of the universe if you never leave the room in your house.
I think it means you have to have a very, very big house.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Jesus gave us one rule for prayer everyone seems to forget.

Mt 26:39 - And He went a little beyond them, and fell on his face and prayed saying, "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me; yet not as I will, but as You will.

No Christian wants God to answer a prayer that is not in God's will. God always does what is best for His children.
That's funny because my primary prayer is for God's will to be done. I just want to do God's will becuase that is what will be best for me and everyone on judgement day. The problem is, in order to do his will I have to know His will and He won't let me know. I pray and pray and pray for the grace to know God's will. I even went to live at two Franciscan Friaries and a Carmelite Monastery seeking God's will.

So why won't God give me the grace to be able to discern His will? Believe me, I don't want anything that isn't His will. I guess it's His will that I live in confusion. One thing that is kinda cool is I opened up a Bible a few minutes ago to
Psalm 78:56-72
56 But they put God to the test
and rebelled against the Most High;

I'd say God is implying something, eh?

I'm sorry Lord, it just really hurts me that you leave me confused. If you fully enlighten me and let me know your will and give me wisdom and understanding, I'll stop testing you. In Jesus name please enlighten me and grant that I do your will and serve and obey you every moment of every day! Amen!
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
So how do I trust what I read in the Bible when I encounter obvious falsehoods?

John 14:13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

John 16:23 In that day you will no longer ask me anything. Very truly I tell you, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name.

Those two statements are obvious falsehood!

Now I'm aware of James 1

"But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. 7For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord".

But here in lies the problem. One of the definitions of insanity is "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." I've asked many times for noble graces and virtues to help me serve and obey God, and not received them. I asked in Jesus name without doubting, but when God repeatedly is unfaithful to his word, that is when the doubt starts to set in. If God would be faithful to His Word, I wouldn't doubt.

I know you're reading this Mr. God!! ;)

You could assume Jesus was talking to his Apostles and not to you. He sent them out as sheep among wolves and instructed them not to carry any money. So they needed some divine help.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
You could assume Jesus was talking to his Apostles and not to you. He sent them out as sheep among wolves and instructed them not to carry any money. So they needed some divine help.
How do I not know other promises in Scripture aren't just for the Apostles and not us??
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
How do I not know other promises in Scripture aren't just for the Apostles and not us??

I guess you could try to imagine what is going on at the time, who Jesus was talking to, put the conversation in perspective. But the last thing you want to do is pick up a deadly viper and find out he was talking to someone else.
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
I hope you aren't implying that I don't leave my room. I've gone on adventures to many different states, been to monasteries, been to various facilities, been to jail, left the country, gone over seas, lived on a yacht, and I've been homeless on the streets.

You're looking at one piece of evidence that was written by humans who were so ignorant of God that they thought He sent plagues and fireballs from heaven.

Who created the universe? God did, but you don't study the universe, do you? Instead you're trying to figure out God from the one of the few things that God actually did NOT make, the bible.

To even begin to be able to learn the size of the universe, you have to go outside, and look up and wonder, and invent a telescope. But if you sit in your room and read a single book, you get stuck in time 2,000 years ago.
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
I took this to mean that you can't figure out the "realities" The Bible has to offer until you have replaced it with the "Urantia Book". How close did I get, and do I get a prize?
More like this, science is closer to answering all his God questions than a 2,000-3,000 year old book is.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
You're looking at one piece of evidence that was written by humans who were so ignorant of God that they thought He sent plagues and fireballs from heaven.

Who created the universe? God did, but you don't study the universe, do you? Instead you're trying to figure out God from the one of the few things that God actually did NOT make, the bible.

To even begin to be able to learn the size of the universe, you have to go outside, and look up and wonder, and invent a telescope. But if you sit in your room and read a single book, you get stuck in time 2,000 years ago.
I can appreciate what you're saying but you misinterpret me. I hardly ever turn to the Bible. It fills me with skepticism to read it. I started this thread to vent my frusteration with the Bible, but I don't use the Bible as my main source of learning about God.

In fact I don't hardly ever turn to the Bible at all ;)
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
Believe it or not, God does not want everyone to understand. That is why there are parables. So people will NOT understand. If God wants a certain person to understand then He will open that person's mind and let the truth in. So if you say you do not understand then it is because God has not chosen you to understand. Sorry.
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
Believe it or not, God does not want everyone to understand. That is why there are parables. So people will NOT understand. If God wants a certain person to understand then He will open that person's mind and let the truth in. So if you say you do not understand then it is because God has not chosen you to understand. Sorry.
Amen brother! I wish I had said that. I'm just letting you know that I'm going to steal that for future use.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Believe it or not, God does not want everyone to understand. That is why there are parables. So people will NOT understand. If God wants a certain person to understand then He will open that person's mind and let the truth in. So if you say you do not understand then it is because God has not chosen you to understand. Sorry.
And we live in an ugly confused world because of it. Thanks to God's decision to hide the truth, we have thousands of denominations claiming to have the truth, Mormons claiming they have the truth, Jehovah's Witnesses claiming they have the truth, Catholics claiming they have the truth, Muslims claiming they have the truth...

People are constantly arguing over the correct interpretation of Scripture and we live in an ugly confused world. Yes I agree that God hid the truth and wants some people confused, but I think it's a very sad, ugly, annoying, dissapointing world as a result of God making that decision. How did it help our world that God chose to leave people confused??
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Christians would say that those passages are interpreted wrongly. Is anyone here willing to attempt to explain the meaning of those passages?

The apostle Peter wrote something that qualifies Jesus' statements....

"I write you these things so that you may know that you have life everlasting, you who put your faith in the name of the Son of God. 14 And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that no matter what we ask according to his will, he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us concerning whatever we are asking, we know that we are to have the things we ask for, since we have asked them of him."

Taken in context, John 14:10-14 says:
"Do you not believe that I am in union with the Father and the Father is in union with me? The things I say to you I do not speak of my own originality, but the Father who remains in union with me is doing his works. 11 Believe me that I am in union with the Father and the Father is in union with me; otherwise, believe because of the works themselves. 12 Most truly I say to you, whoever exercises faith in me will also do the works that I do; and he will do works greater than these, because I am going my way to the Father. 13 Also, whatever you ask in my name, I will do this, so that the Father may be glorified in connection with the Son. 14 If you ask anything in my name, I will do it."

To whom is Jesus speaking here?......It is to his faithful apostles, to who he promised a future role in heaven as kings and priests. (Revelation 20:6)
What would such faithful men be asking for? In line with Peter's words, they would be asking for those things that are in line with God's will. They would be asking for the same kind of faith and endurance that Jesus demonstrated. When you read the words of Jesus' prayers to his Father, it was always about doing the will of his Father.....even on the night before his arrest, he was concerned about how his death as a common blasphemer would impact on his Father's name and reputation. He then said "let not my will, but yours be done". Never once were his prayers selfish.

John 16:23, in context carries a similar meaning.
21-23:
"When a woman is giving birth, she has grief because her hour has come, but when she has given birth to the child, she remembers the tribulation no more because of the joy that a man has been born into the world. 22 So you also, now you have grief; but I will see you again, and your hearts will rejoice, and no one will take away your joy. 23 In that day you will ask me no question at all. Most truly I say to you, if you ask the Father for anything, he will give it to you in my name. 24 Until now you have not asked for a single thing in my name. Ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete."

The apostles were having difficulty comprehending Jesus' words about his approaching death and resurrection. The Jews had always been taught that Messiah would establish his kingdom on earth, but Jesus was speaking about going to heaven. They just couldn't grasp the concept. So Jesus put it into simple terms for them, likening their grief at losing him to a woman giving birth. The experience is not called "labor" for nothing. It is one of the most painful experiences a human can suffer, but once the baby arrives, the memory of the pain fades away as the love for her baby replaces any thought of the difficult process.
Hard times were coming for the disciples when their Master would be taken away, but he told them to concentrate on the future when they would be reunited and the joy would replace all the pain they had to go through to get there. What would these men be asking for? Obviously their prayers would be centered on the doing of God's will so that a joyful reunion with Jesus would be possible in the future.

If one is searching for God, they have to understand that he is not far away from any of us.

Paul said to the men of Athens....
"The God who made the world and all the things in it, being, as he is, Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in handmade temples; 25 nor is he served by human hands as if he needed anything, because he himself gives to all people life and breath and all things. 26 And he made out of one man every nation of men to dwell on the entire surface of the earth, and he decreed the appointed times and the set limits of where men would dwell, 27 so that they would seek God, if they might grope for him and really find him, although, in fact, he is not far off from each one of us. 28 For by him we have life and move and exist, even as some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also his children.’" (Acts 17:24-28)

The problem is, a defector (satan the devil) has made Christianity into a divided mess that makes it hard for the ordinary person to find the truth. We should not stress about this because it isn't only that we search for God....God is actually searching for us. He is evaluating us as individuals and seeing what we really are 'inside' as human beings. He also can read our hearts, so he identifies a genuine "sheep" when he sees one and makes the way for that one to come to know him. Unless one is drawn by the Father to the son, we will always be in the dark, spiritually speaking. (John 6:44)

Searching for a form of worship that only suits "us" is futile.....we must search for a form of worship that suits God. One that fits his criteria, not just ours. If we are only interested in pleasing ourselves by looking for things that fit what we desire, then God will not be interested in us at all. If we are living a life that is outside of his moral standards, with no interest in changing, he already knows it. We can "ask" till the cows come home.....but God will not answer. He is looking for humble and willing individuals who will put their own will aside to do the will of God. These will be the citizens he has chosen to live in his kingdom.
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lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
God does not want everyone to know everything because He is proving that man by himself is not able to live in peace and get along with others. It is only with God's knowledge that man can live in peace.
 

omega2xx

Well-Known Member
That's funny because my primary prayer is for God's will to be done. I just want to do God's will becuase that is what will be best for me and everyone on judgement day. The problem is, in order to do his will I have to know His will and He won't let me know. I pray and pray and pray for the grace to know God's will. I even went to live at two Franciscan Friaries and a Carmelite Monastery seeking God's will.

While we can't know God's will in everything, the Bible is full of things we know is His will:

--Love God and you neighbor..
--Fix your eyes on Jesus...
--Trust in the Lord with all your heart and Lean not on your own understanding
--Exhibit the fruit of the Spirit and the fruit of the light in your life.
--Help the needy.
--Worship; God in spirit and in truth.

The list goes on and on. I doubt if it was God's will that you live with Friars. If it was you would still be there. our first step is found in Rom 12:1---present your self to God. Now trust Him to task care of what He wants you to do.

So why won't God give me the grace to be able to discern His will? Believe me, I don't want anything that isn't His will. I guess it's His will that I live in confusion. One thing that is kinda cool is I opened up a Bible a few minutes ago to
Psalm 78:56-72
56 But they put God to the test
and rebelled against the Most High;

I'd say God is implying something, eh?

I would guess that is God telling you to trust Him and not worry ab out knowing His will for you, Keep in mind the line in the Lords prayer---Thy will be done.

I'm sorry Lord, it just really hurts me that you leave me confused. If you fully enlighten me and let me know your will and give me wisdom and understanding, I'll stop testing you. In Jesus name please enlighten me and grant that I do your will and serve and obey you every moment of every day! Amen!

Stop testing God and start trusting Him more.


“Whatever their bodies do affects their souls. It is funny how mortals always picture us as putting things into their minds: in reality our best work is done by keeping things out...”
C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters
 

Blackdog22

Well-Known Member
Agreed that what you posted are falsehoods. There are plenty of sincere believers who don't get what they ask/pray for, and those statements would indicate that they should - and it does, indeed bode ill for belief when the statements made don't hold up to realities experienced.

And I absolutely despise when pious individuals then make the claim that the person doing the asking must still have something wrong in their lives, or that they may not be as sincere in their beliefs as they feel they are. It is insult tucked away within piety - whereby those same pious people are seen to "fall from grace" at the very thoughts they believe are true and "right" in this context.

There is plenty of room for doubt. Too much for me to consider even the slightest breath of belief.

Even more there are fathers and mothers who have willfully not given their children medication, for diabetes as an example, who believed fully that Jesus would come through for them. They clearly believed and they lost their child for it. Reality simply doesn't line up with the Bible or what it says. For that reason, my only option is to disbelieve what it says.
 

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
Fairly simple. Ask yourself one question:

Was there ever a time, Jesus did not receive what he asked of God?
 
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