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When science goes gibberish; what does it indicate?
- Thread starter paarsurrey
- Start date
Awkward Fingers
Omphaloskeptic
And that's still not an example. That's an anecdote.
gnostic
The Lost One
It is often limitation of one's own education that science appeared "gibberish". Just because it may appear "gibberish" to you, paarsurrey, doesn't mean science is gibberish to everyone else.
My suggestion to you, is go back to university, college or even high school, to get the education in the scientific field you are interested in.
READ, LEARN, STUDY, RESEARCH, INVESTIGATE, paarsurrey. If you TRULY WANT TO UNDERSTAND SCIENCE, then for goodness' sake, stop reading and quoting pseudoscience rubbish from religious-biased webpages.
Most of the gibberish come from pseudoscience, not from science, particularly when ignorant people tried to mix religion with science.
A lot of Muslims' webpages on science are utter pseudoscience trash.
One of the most prominent Muslims on the net, mainly because he frequently post his videos on the YouTube, is Zakir Naik. Like some other Muslims here, Naik cut-and-paste verses from the Qur'an while comparing it to modern science, and then claiming them to be "scientific sign" or "scientific miracle". The reason for this sort of dishonest stupidity is to elevate the Qur'an as being "scientific".
That's pseudoscience.
Naik may be a doctor in medicine, but he is not a scientist, so little of what he has to say is pseudoscience rhetoric.
A number of Muslims here, at RF, have followed Naik's examples, and this where most of the Muslims who do this, have proven to be scientific illiterated, and worse, revealed themselves to be liars.
My suggestion to you, is go back to university, college or even high school, to get the education in the scientific field you are interested in.
READ, LEARN, STUDY, RESEARCH, INVESTIGATE, paarsurrey. If you TRULY WANT TO UNDERSTAND SCIENCE, then for goodness' sake, stop reading and quoting pseudoscience rubbish from religious-biased webpages.
Most of the gibberish come from pseudoscience, not from science, particularly when ignorant people tried to mix religion with science.
A lot of Muslims' webpages on science are utter pseudoscience trash.
One of the most prominent Muslims on the net, mainly because he frequently post his videos on the YouTube, is Zakir Naik. Like some other Muslims here, Naik cut-and-paste verses from the Qur'an while comparing it to modern science, and then claiming them to be "scientific sign" or "scientific miracle". The reason for this sort of dishonest stupidity is to elevate the Qur'an as being "scientific".
That's pseudoscience.
Naik may be a doctor in medicine, but he is not a scientist, so little of what he has to say is pseudoscience rhetoric.
A number of Muslims here, at RF, have followed Naik's examples, and this where most of the Muslims who do this, have proven to be scientific illiterated, and worse, revealed themselves to be liars.
What do you think the difference between science and pseudo-science is?
I'm fairly certain that isn't the goal here (rather, it is to make "science" compatible with a particular religious view). I have a suspicion you doubt it is too, but I wouldn't want to put words in your mouth.
McBell
Resident Sourpuss
I agree.
Thus far it has been nothing more than a sad attempt at dragging science down tot he level of religion.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Did I quote from any Muslim website for science? I think I didn't.
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
It is often limitation of one's own study that one fails to understand the truthful Quran and the truthful religion .
My suggestion to you gnostic, is that you get set to study Quran yourself, unbiased, from cover to cover.
There is no alternative than to READ, LEARN, STUDY, RESEARCH, INVESTIGATE, gnostic, if you may please. If you TRULY WANT TO UNDERSTAND Quran and the truthful religion, then for goodness' sake, stop reading and quoting rubbish from religious-opposing webpages.
Most of the misunderstandings come from such opposing websites, while there is nothing in Quran like that. Be open minded and do it yourself, please.
A lot of Muslims opposing webpages on Islam/Quran/Muhammad are utter trash.
A number of people here, at RF, have followed such websites , and this why most of the Atheists/Agnostics/Skeptics are misled from the truth, otherwise, they are good people.
Hope, you will listen to this advice. Will you, please.
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
If a doctor of medicine does not qualify to be knowing science, please set your criteria of a scientist.
Regards
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
I have read it. However, it contains numerous factual errors. If it's was really sent from God and delivered to Muhammad via angel, wouldn't every last fact about the cosmos have been accurate, rather than claiming salt and fresh water don't mix and that the sun revolves around a non-rotating earth?
gnostic
The Lost One
Other than sites this website (RF, back in 2006) and websites containing translations of religious scriptures, which I might quote from, I don't visit or quote any anti-religious websites or webpages, so I really don't know what you are talking.
In fact, since I have joined RF, I have not a SINGLE pro-atheist websites. So you are attacking strawman.
I have a lot experiences in reading ancient and medieval literature, especially those that are mythological and historical themes, that I don't rely on anyone to interpret the literature that I have read, including religious-theme literature, ie scriptures.
Most of replies you get from me, about religions, are from my own reading and research, therefore my own interpretations, whether it be the Tanakh, Bible or the Qur'an. I have also read and researched Egyptian, Sumerian-Babylonian, Ugaritic, Greek, Roman, Norse, Celtic literature, that have religious, mythological or folkloric subjects.
Most of my experiences in researching literature come from building my websites, Timeless Myths and Dark Mirrors of Heaven, demonstrated my skills in reading and researching.
Unlike you I have read all 3 Abrahamic scriptures - the Tanakh, Bible and Qur'an - from cover-to-cover. Have you?
Most Muslims I have come across here, have never read the whole bible, but only quoted something from Muslim webpages when they criticize the bible or the Tanakh. How can these Muslims criticise and compare something about the bible to the Qur'an when they have not read the whole bible?
I don't do this with the bible, and I certainly have done so with the Qur'an. My criticisms on the bible or the Qur'an are my own, and not based on interpretations of other people or other webpages, because I don't need to quote from 3rd party webpages.
I do my my own reading and research, so I don't rely on any atheist agnostic to interpret for me.
So your pathetic attempts at "giving me advice" or telling me to read, understand and research literature that I have already read and researched.
Do you have more lame advice for me, paarsurrey?
gnostic
The Lost One
Naik is only general practitioner, so his knowledge in other areas of science are limited. He is not a specialist in any field of science.
He has been quoting verses of the Qur'an, and comparing some of them, to geology, earth science, oceanography and astronomy, which he have never study before. What he is doing is pseudoscience, not science.
Nice to know that you are defending that hack (Naik). It just shows me that you don't even know what a pseudoscientist is when there is one right in front of your face, but you are defending him.
gnostic
The Lost One
No you didn't.
I have ask for you to name a scientist who is pseudoscientist. I named a Muslim who used pseudoscience with the Qur'an; his televangelist videos are often attempts to mix Islam and science, but all he succeeded in doing is spread pseudoscience.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
One has to adopt a proper measure to understand the truthful scripture, it is not like reading a novel or a story-book.
Please give it another try.
One should be clear of any bias while reading Quran.
Kindly start studying Quran from the beginning to the end, then read it again please and have a note-book with you while intently reading it. One should write down the valid question arising in one’s mind very naturally; this is not prohibited. If the context makes the questions clear or one realizes that one’s question is not valid; one could delete it and proceed further. This may take sometime of course; but it is worthwhile trying it, after all it is an oft quoted book of an important world religion.
I think it is not difficult to understand the verses by using a common sense approach which is generally helpful for understanding any book in the world.
A single verse without the text and the context could be sometimes misleading.
One cannot correctly understand the meaning of a word unless one knows the whole sentence in which it has been used; the value of a sentence could be best understood in a passage, and of a passage is best understood in a chapter. The reference with the context is therefore most essential for a meaningful understanding.
This helps to understand the verses; hence Quran is self-explanatory.
Quran in the very beginning make it known that it is a book for guidance to humanity to the righteous and as such it should be referred to in the ethical, moral and spiritual matters. Why persist to use it otherwise?
Another thing is that science is never final in anything; there is always a room for improvement in knowledge of science; nobody has closed yet the book of science; so why at all compare it with Quran.
Quran leaves the field of science open for search and research for the believers and the non-believers alike; it does not block science for investigation or oppose it.
Science does not have any absolute realities; it is a tool of human beings for physical advancements and with the available data it searches and researches till it matches with the nature; nature is the master. Nature existed when humans had virtually no knowledge of science; and science is subject to improvement as and when new data is obtained. It has no claims to perfectness.
It is therefore futile to look for any scientific mistakes in Quran; there is none there.
It provides guidance on temporal, moral and spiritual matters. Quran does not want that it should be believed only as a book of authority from an authority. It provides the wisdom to a thing and reason and logical arguments, in a way, that it is not a tedious book like the books of philosophy which are full with difficult terminology not understood by the common man. It mentions wisdom for the Philosophers, experts and the common people all at one and the same time; as it is guidance for everybody.
I think it appropriate here to suggest an on-line website for studying the same:
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/index.php
It is true that Quran if read in the Arabic language a little loudly in a manner that it does not disturb others has its own spell-bound charm; that cannot be denied.
Nevertheless; its real charm is its profound system of meaning conveyed in its message; one could benefit from it, in any language. Where-ever the translator has not been able to comprehend the meaning correctly, one could check the original Arabic word and find its etymology, available online.
I have personal experience of this; people borrow questions from unfriendly websites; but when referred to Quran, for the text and context, the questions become irrelevant.
I may add here that all translations, in fact, are commentaries as one could translate only to the extent one understands; if one does not understand fully one’s translation would be defective to that extent.
As is evident translations of Quran are not the real words of God; that is factual and reasonable; that does not mean that Quran should not be translated for understanding it.
When one has finished it, we can compare our notes with one another.
Regards
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
I get what you're saying. However, I cannot accept something as a valid book of god if gets even basic facts wrong. If it really came from god, why does it state the sun revolves around a flat earth, when even many ancient cultures that existed long before Islam knew the earth was round and the celestial bodies they saw revolved around the sun?
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Where did you get it from?
Regards
Done and done. Heck, I learned to read Arabic just to do this (well, this and read other Islamic literature, from ahadith to Sirat Rasul Allah to tafsīr). Yet I'm no closer to believing that alaqah and mudghah describe embryonic development, or that the Qu'ran shows an understanding of neurobiology because of the use of naseyah. Nor have my studies convinced me that there is anything more than historical, cultural, and literary value to the Qu'ran.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
I appreciate your efforts to understand Quran.
Quran makes it very clear even in the first some verses that it is a guidance for the righteous to the straight (ethical, moral and spiritual) path of the truthful prophets:
[1:5]Thee alone do we worship and Thee alone do we implore for help.
[1:6]Guide us in the right path —
[1:7]The path of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy blessings, those who have not incurred Thy displeasure, and those who have not gone astray.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=1
[2:3]This is a perfect Book; there is no doubt in it;it is a guidance for the righteous,
[2:4]Who believe in the unseen and observe Prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them;
[2:5]And who believe in that which has been revealed to thee, and that which was revealed before thee, and they have firm faith in what isyetto come.
[2:6]It is they who follow the guidance of their Lord and it is they who shall prosper.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=2&verse=0
Why look for science in it? Did Quran claim to be a book of science? If so, please quote from it.
No harm in concentrating on these very clear points while understanding Quran. Please give it another try, if you may.
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
I appreciate your direct research in the scriptures of many religions and reading and commenting on them on your own.
Regards