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Featured When Jesus Was Dead Was God Dead Too?

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by arthurchappell, Aug 13, 2018.

  1. arthurchappell

    arthurchappell writer, poet, historian,

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    Nietzsche says God is dead which I agree with, but if the Bible trinity idea is / was true and Jesus died on the cross, staying dead for Easter weekend, surely that means God was dead too. If Jesus was God, and Jesus died, so did God, so how did the World / Universe carry on in his / their absence? If we could survive three days without God maybe we could survive forever without one too
     
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  2. lukethethird

    lukethethird Well-Known Member

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    I don't know but some people claim that God rose Jesus from the dead, but I would check with one of Paul's epistles on that one, or maybe the Epistle to Hebrews.
     
  3. Regiomontanus

    Regiomontanus retired astronomer

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    Hello.

    Catholics (at least) call that 'silent Saturday' (He died on Friday, resurrected on Sunday, so Saturday was the only full day he was dead).

    Of course, many early Christians did not think he was God; Trinitarianism came later.

    Peace.
     
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  4. Nakosis

    Nakosis Time Efficient Lollygagger
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    The flesh died, not the spirit.
     
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  5. Kenny

    Kenny Face to face with my Father
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    I think you would first have to define what you believe "dead" means.
     
  6. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    Jesus was God nor more or less than you or I, by biblical standards anyway.

    John 10:34, Psalms 82:6, etc... Those particular passages are interesting reading because they recount a story where Jews were about to punish Jesus for claiming to be the son of God, and he re-quoted the Psalms statements to them to clarify that there was scripture to support his claim. Though that scripture doesn't specify that Jesus is the only "Son of God" but rather everyone is. :D

    By classical understandings of the Trinity (which are pretty freakin' old) it's something God = Father, Son, and The Holy Spook. However, those things are combined in "God" and not combined in themselves. In essence, God is a composite of these things when they mix but also exists independently. There is also the technicality that God is eternal by Christian standards, so there is no death for that guy. Even Jesus cannot technically die (being part of God)...

    My personal spiritual experience seems to back up this information, but I despise using the word soul to describe the situation. (In common parlance, it's something of a poker chip that can be bartered between God and the Devil... laughable) If something is eternal (like that soul) and pure it makes absolutely no sense that it can be corrupted or sold. :D
     
  7. Jedster

    Jedster Well-Known Member

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    According to your former cult leader, when being questioned:

    What I have heard is that it is passed on. That there is always a Perfect Master on Earth. And that it must be passed on. Like from John the Baptist to Jesus Christ. Now if you died suddenly, you would not have passed this on to anyone else?
    I just told you. That's the main difference between a Perfect Master and an ordinary man. He knows what is going to happen to him next. Perfect Master does not leave his body by anybody else's will. He leaves his body by his own will. That's why, if there were an ordinary man on the cross, he would have been dead. But Jesus Christ rose back. He got back from there. Because he is the highest supreme authority and even death is under him. Death works under him. Understand? That's why there was no death to him. He was able to come back. If it were you, maybe you would have never been able to come back from there.

    The Perfect Master: Prem Rawat's Teachings
     
  8. Cacotopia

    Cacotopia Let's go full Trottle

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    Maybe god has MPD and just one of his personalities died.
     
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  9. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Hmmmm..."silent Saturday"? Never heard of this.
    Did you know that the Jewish day began at sundown? So technically, each day began at sundown the day before.

    The Jewish Sabbath was Saturday which began at sundown Friday night, so the night before is when when Jesus was arrested (which would make that Thursday night to us) He was tried on that Thursday night (technically Friday to the Jews) and then brought before Pilate so that the Jews could legally have him executed.
    Jesus' death took place in the northern hemisphere spring, on the Passover Day, according to the Jewish calendar. (Matthew 26:2; John 13:1-3; Exodus 12:1-6; 13:4) So Jesus’ death took place on Friday, Nisan 14, by about 3:00 p.m. (Luke 23:44-46) Jews reckoned that parts of a day constituted being counted as a full day, so Jesus died on Friday afternoon and was in his tomb from then until Monday morning. So the three nights were Friday night, Saturday night and Sunday night and the three days were also Friday till sundown, Saturday and Sunday. He was resurrected the following morning, early it seems from the accounts.
     
  10. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    There are a few assumptions in the OP that are not quite correct according to my research.

    I'd like to take them one at a time, if I may....

    "if the Bible trinity idea is / was true"
    The trinity is not a Bible idea, so @Regiomontanus is correct, the trinity was introduced much later.....over 300 years after Jesus died.

    "and Jesus died on the cross, staying dead for Easter weekend, surely that means God was dead too."

    Jesus died on a "stauros" which is incorrectly translated "cross" in many Bibles.
    Stau·rosʹ in both the classical Greek and Koine carries no thought of a “cross” made of two timbers. It means only an upright stake, pale, pile, or pole, as might be used for a fence, stockade, or palisade. Says Douglas’ New Bible Dictionary under “Cross,” page 253: “The Gk. word for ‘cross’ (stauros; verb stauroo . . . ) means primarily an upright stake or beam, and secondarily a stake used as an instrument for punishment and execution.”

    To venerate a cross is actually idolatry (Exodus 20:4) and a mistaken act of devotion because the cross predates Christianity by centuries as an object of worship. It actually has very grubby origins.

    As for the connection to "Easter"...there is no connection at all. Easter is derived from the worship of a fertility goddess whose emblems included rabbits, and eggs because they represented fertility. Her name was Oestre (pronounced "Easter" or "Astarte" depending on what religion you followed) and this pagan festival was just another way that paganism was used to convert the heathens to "Christianity" (which by that time didn't really resemble the original at all.)

    As for God being dead.....an immortal cannot die, so Jesus was not God. He never once claimed to be anything but "the son of God".

    "so how did the World / Universe carry on in his / their absence? If we could survive three days without God maybe we could survive forever without one too."

    The universe has never had to "carry on" without its Creator. God sent his son to earth to redeem mankind and he offered his life willingly to pay the price for our release. (John 3:16) The Universe cannot survive without God just as the humans on this earth cannot either. Humanity is getting closer and closer to extinction by their own hand from repeatedly ignoring him. This fact becomes more evident every day.

    At Ecclesiastes 1:4 the Bible says: “A generation goes, and a generation comes, but the earth remains forever.” And at Isaiah 45:18 it says “God is the Creator of the heavens. He formed the earth and made it. He established it; He did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited—“I am Yahweh, and there is no other."
    And “inhabited” it will yet be in God’s due time with a perfect race of humankind, favored with the gift of eternal life! :)
     
  11. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    Jesus is fully God and fully human. His humanity died, His deity did not. God is eternal and cannot die.
     
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  12. TheBannerofHomuraAkemi

    TheBannerofHomuraAkemi Active Member

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    Please don't misinterpret Nietzsche quote.
     
  13. Regiomontanus

    Regiomontanus retired astronomer

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    Hello.

    Sorry, I should have said Holy Saturday.

    I attended Catholic mass last Easter with some family members (I am not Catholic) and the priest referred to it as silent Saturday and in general ofthe silence of Saturday.

    Holy Saturday: “God is Dead”

    And you are right of course on the Jewish reckoning of the beginning of the day.

    Peace
     
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  14. arthurchappell

    arthurchappell writer, poet, historian,

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    Prem Rawat, aka Guru Maharaj Ji, aka Goomradjie, is here mainly playing on the notion that he himself is a Perfect Master and avatar incarnation of a supreme deity, even though speaking in the third person. Of course most of us would die if we were crucified - that is self-evident. Jesus 1/. died and came back from the dead 2/. Jesus only fell unconscious or faked his own death 3/. It's all a made up story anyway. Without brain death, a stopped heart might have been temporary, though no one really understood CPR in those days and given that Jesus had been scourged, crucified and had his thigh broken (to speed up death, actually a Roman act of mercy as the crucified can linger on a cross for several days of agony without it), the chances of survival were slight.

    Prem Rawat talks of the Baptist as a Perfect Master but he doesn't survive his decapitation, and the implication here is that he transferred his powers top Jesus on Death, which means Jesus's whole life and virgin birth before John died were not divine. Though not stated here Prem Rawat believes or at least claims that there is only one perfect master alive at any given time (giving himself the role now for our age). That Prem was discredited by his pown mother, got arrested for smuggling jewellery past Indian customs and may have killed a man in a hit & run car tragedy puts doubts on his claim to perfection. If Jesus died in flesh but not spirit part of him did not die. His body was briefly like a torch with the battery removed which is a clever trick, but cheating really. If fully dead, then the spirit had to die too - I reject the death hypothesis but then I find the story made up anyway
     
  15. Skipper

    Skipper Wrong is wrong,/ Make America moral again.

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    The physical body was dead, the spiritual was not. So, no God was not dead.
     
  16. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    No, only Jesus died in the flesh. That is His human body died. Jesus is God manifest. God is a Spirit and cannot die. So God made Himself a body(in the womb). If God were to die (which is impossible) then the universe(and everything) would instantly cease to exist.

    Everything is basically only here because God wills it to be here and established it with His Word.
     
  17. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    The flesh amounts to not a thing, so that is gone as well?

    Jesus body is gone, Christ Lives on.

    Peace be with you.
     
  18. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps, but I don't trust them to know the flesh died. They don't even understand what a coma is.
     
  19. Nakosis

    Nakosis Time Efficient Lollygagger
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    I don't know anything about it. I just assume this would be the common theological response. There is obviously lots of possible answers to speculate on. No evidence needed for any of them.
     
  20. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    According to the scriptures, the body of Jesus was resurrected and glorified for eternity.
     
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